2018-19 Blaze King Performance Thread Part 2 (Everything BK)

[jetsam]

Just wanted to report back how the new BK Princess insert is doing after 8 days.
Got the door installed a week ago yesterday. Adjusted the latch and ran the dollar bill test until it was right. Will have to readjust at some point as the door seems to be settling in to the door gasket. Started the first fire with the small load as mentioned in the manual then a bigger one after that. Anticipated bad smell from the paint curing and it did smell but not anything like I was expecting. Opened a door for about 15 minutes then closed it and fired up the ozone machine and that took care of it after a while.

This is sure different in all aspects compared to the old insert we took out. All the wasted heat(slammer install), wood usage(figured one split per hour), and ash clean out(sometimes pulling out almost two 5 gallon buckets full) are gone now. It's like going from a Model T to a new Corvette or so it seems. Only thing the same is they burn wood inside both of them.

So I have some comments/observations/questions.

1. Getting the cat up to temp seems easy to do and not much time(to me) to get there.
2. It is crazy how long a few pieces of wood burn and put out usable heat.
3. Have been burning 24/7 since 3/25 and pulled out less than half of a three gallon bucket of ash.
4. My CSS wood is marginal as I've said and both lower bottom corners of the glass get pretty black about 5" up and across the bottom. Cleaned it once so far with some ash on a damp paper towel.
5. We have NEVER had so many blue flames!! It's all the time, right now it's solid blue flame off the back of the wood in back of the firebox. Can count on one hand probably how many times we had blue flames in the old insert.
6. Bought some Eco Bricks(6 to a pack) at TSC on the way home from picking up the PI. I raked the coals forward about halfway to load the Eco Bricks. Wasn't sure how many to run the first time so loaded 6 N/S against the back wall and pushed the ashes back to the front of the Eco Bricks. Put small(3"-4") Ash rounds N/S for overnight. Set it a little below half on the tstat, fan on high. 8:00 the next morning the Ash was gone but the Eco Bricks were still glowing red across the back wall. Went to reload and the Eco Bricks were solid as when they were put in. Loaded 7 on top of the first row of bricks and threw in almost two 5 gallon buckets of splits cut to length(16", old insert would do almost 24"). They ranged in size from 2" to 6". Ran all day like this a little above half on tstat. Time to reload that evening and the very bottom row of Eco Bricks were mostly solid with the upper row fairly burned up but still some 4-5" solid chunks left. Nuts....
7. Never thought this would heat our house but be a good supplement. So no expectations of being let down next winter.
8. Getting great secondaries which are cool to watch, probably on about each load for different lengths of time. Maybe saw those twice in the old insert.
9. STT are from 300*-700*+ throughout the burn cycle. Best I ever got comfortably on the old insert was upper 200's.
10. Going to have to come up with a new air circulation plan for the house with this insert. The old insert had 580 cfm of air output and this one seems to be about half that. Old one had the air outlet probably 6" farther into to the room and deflected downward, new one is basically going straight up the brick face of the chimney. It makes the upstairs about 6*-10* warmer and a couple of places on the main floor that much cooler. Living room ceiling is peaked and 20-21' tall with two ceiling fans that run 24/7/365. One is going down and the other is going upwards currently.

First question:
1. Ran N/S load the first few times then ran E/W. Seems to be E/W lasts longer? Or is that my imagination? Assuming it blocks the air flow in that orientation.
2. After cat thermometer gets into the active zone how long does it take to clean up the smoke out of the chimney?
3. Ran 4 pieces of DF 2"X8"X10" across the back wall E/W stacked on top of each other like a solid block. Burned for 6 hours before I reloaded, set on a low setting putting out decent heat and still barely active cat before reloading. The cat temp was half way into the active zone but still could see some faint smoke out the chimney. It was too warm to be steam, upper 40's. Should the cat eat all the smoke?
4. I loaded 12 Eco Bricks on bed of coals, N/S along the back wall 2 rows high. Got it up to temp and set the tstat to high, fan on high and watched it for an hour or more to check the STT. Climbed up to the upper 700's (IR gun). Cut the tstat back about 2 dots and I could hear the little air door hit the bottom. It must have been heading closed from the temps I'm guessing. What's too high a temp for STT?
5. The manual says run the fan on low for a low tstat setting and high for a high tstat setting and so on. I've been running the fan on high for about everything, cat still in active zone always. I want it to strip off as much heat as it can if I need the heat even if the tstat is on a lower setting. Any issues with doing that?

Well that should do it for now sorry about the length, lots to learn with this new insert. We feel it was money well spent considering how old the other one was and being unsafe. Thanks to all of you who told me it was unsafe...we were just cruising along not knowing any better, so thanks.

Steve

1) Probably your imagination. I've never noticed a significant difference, and the stove burns front to back no matter how you load it.

2) Sometimes right away, sometimes not until the wood finishes offgasing? Depends what you're burning, how wet it is, and how hot the stove is.

3) It doesn't always, see above.

4) If your gaskets are in good order and you're burning normal fuel (no loads of kerosene soaked wood chips), you don't have to worry about stovetops. I've never seen 800 on mine, but I've never burned anything but wood in it. 800 with fans on high would worry me considerably.

5) You'll have false readings on your cat probe thermometer (it'll look lower than it is). Also your shoulder season burn times will be greatly impacted. The thermostat is going to open up the air to make up for all that heat you are blowing out. Check often to see how your creosote accumulation is going at the top of the flue.

 

[jetsam]

What makes the hot spot 'bigger' but not hotter?

Thermal conduction. *rim shot*

 

[spudman99]

The hot spot would grow as the heat transfers from the center outward. A constant 1500 deg heat in the middle top of the stove (from the cat) will radiate outward through the existing metal till an equilibrium temperature is reached in contact with the room air. Similar to when you hold a torch constant on a copper pipe, it will get hotter farther from the heat source over time, all other inputs remaining stable.

 

[Highbeam]

What makes the hot spot 'bigger' but not hotter?

Those guys got it. Whether the thermostat is at max or just comfortably above stall, the cat temperature according to my condar cat temperature meter is always right near 1500. The fire below looks hotter but the cat stays the same.

It’s quite fascinating. Maybe there is more primary combustion at higher stat settings. Surely stove output is higher at higher stat settings.

I had a stove top meter for my bk but it was deemed useless and moved to the noncat.

 

[begreen]

No, that doesn't account for more heat. With the copper pipe scenario that is just the same heat over a matter of time. It doesn't explain the range of output created by the thermostatic control.

If the fire is burning more intensely in the firebox as compared to a low air smolder setting then it makes sense that with the more intense fire situation that there would be more radiant heat created, warming up the whole stove top and sides instead of just around the cat. Does that sound right?

 

[bholler]

Those guys got it. Whether the thermostat is at max or just comfortably above stall, the cat temperature according to my condar cat temperature meter is always right near 1500. The fire below looks hotter but the cat stays the same.

It’s quite fascinating. Maybe there is more primary combustion at higher stat settings. Surely stove output is higher at higher stat settings.

I had a stove top meter for my bk but it was deemed useless and moved to the noncat.

If that is true why does the cat probe not stay at a constant level untill it goes inactive? I measure stove top temps so that I know when the stove temp is starting to drop to a point it will no longer provide enough heat for my house instead of waiting for the temp in the house to drop.

 

[Highbeam]

No, that doesn't account for more heat. With the copper pipe scenario that is just the same heat over a matter of time. It doesn't explain the range of output created by the thermostatic control.

If the fire is burning more intensely in the firebox as compared to a low air smolder setting then it makes sense that with the more intense fire situation that there would be more radiant heat created, warming up the whole stove top and sides instead of just around the cat. Does that sound right?

That seems to be as good an idea as any.

The cat temperature on my stove climbs up to about 1500 and just sits there until the fuel runs low. I’m sure that the thermostat is modulating the actual throttle blade to accomplish this.

 

[lsucet]

According to different setups, there is a point where heat is just going up the flue. Sometimes strong draft can suck all the heat and the thermostat takes longer to react to the firebox temp. I know this for a fact cause i have two setups and they behave different. One on 19' and the other on almost 24'. On the 19' setup with two 45s, I can run wide open and the stove gets super hot, the setup on 24' flue that is straight up, four o'clock is the WOT for me. If not once the flue temp is about 600 df is like it is pulling too much that the heat is going straight up the flue and i can hear the roaring noise.
As the tstat closes or closing it manually, larger area on top and sides gets hotter, not just a spot. I never see any advantage on running the stoves WOT to can get more heat out of it.

 

[Highbeam]

I think most stoves are more efficient at their lower, but still clean, burn rates. These bks seem very happy at low burn rates.

 

[kennyp2339]

What makes the hot spot 'bigger' but not hotter?

I think its the difference with having flames in the fire box and an active cat vs, smoldering w/ active cat, but I get what your saying.

 

[bholler]

I think its the difference with having flames in the fire box and an active cat vs, smoldering w/ active cat, but I get what your saying.

Agreed

 

[begreen]

I think its the difference with having flames in the fire box and an active cat vs, smoldering w/ active cat, but I get what your saying.

Yes, that's what I said above ^.

 

[Woody Stover]

The cat temperature on my stove climbs up to about 1500 and just sits there until the fuel runs low. I’m sure that the thermostat is modulating the actual throttle blade to accomplish this.

Right. I can vary how hot my cat is running since I manually control the air (how brightly it is glowing, since I don't have a direct cat probe hooked up.) The stove top temp near the cat will correspondingly increase or decrease.

 

[Woody Stover]

10. Going to have to come up with a new air circulation plan for the house with this insert. The old insert had 580 cfm of air output and this one seems to be about half that. Old one had the air outlet probably 6" farther into to the room and deflected downward, new one is basically going straight up the brick face of the chimney

They offer the convection deck for the top as an option, that will shoot the air forward I think...

 

[mar13]

The Blaze King brochure for the Chinook and other 30 series ( https://www.blazeking.com/manuals-and-brochures/) shows a very nice graph across the bottom of pages 10 and 11 which includes the flue temperature over a 40(!) hour period. The flue temp starts just above 300 degrees (330-350), but by hour 5, it's at 300 and drops below 300 at 24 hours.

Would this be OK because either (1) the catalyst does removes most of the creosote-making material? or (2) by 5 hours it's mostly coals? I'm not knowledgeable about this.

 

[jetsam]

The Blaze King brochure for the Chinook and other 30 series ( https://www.blazeking.com/manuals-and-brochures/) shows a very nice graph across the bottom of pages 10 and 11 which includes the flue temperature over a 40(!) hour period. The flue temp starts just above 300 degrees (330-350), but by hour 5, it's at 300 and drops below 300 at 24 hours.

Would this be OK because either (1) the catalyst does removes most of the creosote-making material? or (2) by 5 hours it's mostly coals? I'm not knowledgeable about this.

They should have run the stove up a little hotter before they turned the thermostat down on that burn, probably.

If you had a short and insulated flue, that might still be okay.

If not, you would probably get some creosote accumulation. That's also okay if you don't mind running a brush through it more often.

Most people would want to start that long burn at a higher temperature, though (you just leave the thermostat on a higher setting until the stove warms up, then turn it down).

 

[mar13]

" The recordings were started when the combustor reached 640° F. The firebox was loaded with 58 lbs. of Western Larch. The thermostat was closed down to a low setting and the test was run on that single load. "

To be fair, they did have the above statement in their explanation of the graph. So they probably did warm the flue up first.

 

[Diabel]

I will let my flue go up to 400-450 then will turn the star down to low burn

 

[BKVP]

They should have run the stove up a little hotter before they turned the thermostat down on that burn, probably.

If you had a short and insulated flue, that might still be okay.

If not, you would probably get some creosote accumulation. That's also okay if you don't mind running a brush through it more often.

Most people would want to start that long burn at a higher temperature, though (you just leave the thermostat on a higher setting until the stove warms up, then turn it down).

The Blaze King brochure for the Chinook and other 30 series ( https://www.blazeking.com/manuals-and-brochures/) shows a very nice graph across the bottom of pages 10 and 11 which includes the flue temperature over a 40(!) hour period. The flue temp starts just above 300 degrees (330-350), but by hour 5, it's at 300 and drops below 300 at 24 hours.

Would this be OK because either (1) the catalyst does removes most of the creosote-making material? or (2) by 5 hours it's mostly coals? I'm not knowledgeable about this.

Allow me since I generated that chart and ran that test run. The moisture in the fuel is long gone by the time you get much past the first few hours. The purpose of the chart is to show how erratic temperatures are when you burn an unmetered fuel....and that the thermostat meters out that heat. It acts as a shock absorber.

 

[jetsam]

Allow me since I generated that chart and ran that test run. The moisture in the fuel is long gone by the time you get much past the first few hours. The purpose of the chart is to show how erratic temperatures are when you burn an unmetered fuel....and that the thermostat meters out that heat. It acts as a shock absorber.

I burn cooler than that myself, because I think it's easier to sweep frequently than to start fires all the time. I'm not going to recommend <300° flue temps to others, though.

The thermostat is friggin' wonderful and seems to work better than a simple bimetal coil should. I set the dial for the outdoor temp forecast and walk away. That's magic in my book.

 

[MissMac]

Well, it's been almost a week since I installed the OAK and I still smell smoke when I get up in the morning. [/QUO

Well, it's been almost a week since I installed the OAK and I still smell smoke when I get up in the morning.

that's the worst Steve

 

[jetsam]

I started having real serious plugged-cat symptoms, and vacuuming the cat didn't help. It was due to be 38 last night and I didn't plan to be cold, so I pulled that puppy. This is an aftermarket steel cat in a princess insert.



It had significant ash obstruction on the back face after ~1.5 seasons. Gave it a quick brush and vac, and the stove is burning like a champ again. I have a new gasket on order, burning without one (for the first time) atm. Stove doesn't seem to mind.

Based on this, I don't know if I'll continue to use steel. I love the fast light-off time, but I light a new fire maybe 3 or 4 times a year, so I don't get very much mileage out of it.

BK ships ceramic cats in this stove, and I think I finally see why. The original ceramic one had no backside plugging after 2.5 seasons.

 

[Dieselhead]

4 splits and some mill ends last night, was 64 in the house and damp from all the rain. Set on low it was a nice 69 in the house all night into this am no more cool bone chilling temps.

 

[Ashful]

I started having real serious plugged-cat symptoms, and vacuuming the cat didn't help. It was due to be 38 last night and I didn't plan to be cold, so I pulled that puppy. This is an aftermarket steel cat in a princess insert.

View attachment 243740

It had significant ash obstruction on the back face after ~1.5 seasons. Gave it a quick brush and vac, and the stove is burning like a champ again. I have a new gasket on order, burning without one (for the first time) atm. Stove doesn't seem to mind.

Based on this, I don't know if I'll continue to use steel. I love the fast light-off time, but I light a new fire maybe 3 or 4 times a year, so I don't get very much mileage out of it.

BK ships ceramic cats in this stove, and I think I finally see why. The original ceramic one had no backside plugging after 2.5 seasons.

I’ve also found that simply vacuuming the face of the cat doesn’t really get the job done, I’ve found the back-side plugged, as well.

At this point, I’ve just accepted that part of running a BK Ashford is removing and un-plugging the cat once or twice per year. Not a huge deal, just a little frustrating when it plugs in the middle of a cold spell.

My stove on the tall chimney was plugging the original steel cats any time I’d run the stove on a high setting, and if I tried to run the stove on high all day, it would plug it solid in just a day or two. I seem to be able to go a full season on the stove with the short chimney, before I have to pull and clean the combustor.

Installing a key damper on that taller chimney certainly helped a lot. I suspect going ceramic on that stove helped some, too... although I already had the key damper installed before I did that, so I can’t say for sure. I still had to shut down to vacuum the face of that cat twice this year, but didn’t have to remove it for cleaning the back side.

 

[jetsam]

I’ve also found that simply vacuuming the face of the cat doesn’t really get the job done, I’ve found the back-side plugged, as well.

At this point, I’ve just accepted that part of running a BK Ashford is removing and un-plugging the cat once or twice per year. Not a huge deal, just a little frustrating when it plugs in the middle of a cold spell.

My stove on the tall chimney was plugging the original steel cats any time I’d run the stove on a high setting, and if I tried to run the stove on high all day, it would plug it solid in just a day or two. I seem to be able to go a full season on the stove with the short chimney, before I have to pull and clean the combustor.

Installing a key damper on that taller chimney certainly helped a lot. I suspect going ceramic on that stove helped some, too... although I already had the key damper installed before I did that, so I can’t say for sure. I still had to shut down to vacuum the face of that cat twice this year, but didn’t have to remove it for cleaning the back side.

I had zero plugging on the back of my larger-celled ceramic cat after ~2.5 years. The cell size likely matters for this.