2017-18 Blaze King Performance Thread PART 3 (Everything BK)

[Ashful]

It's the same, but it lets you rake all the coals up front before loading.

This is interesting. After burning about 30 cords E/W, I switched, and now I’ve burned about 25 cords N/S. I’ve never seen the direction of loading as any impact on my ability to plow ash back and rake coals forward, prior to loading in the wood. Just level it all out, and you’re good to go, in either direction.

I also used to do the thing of throwing a single split or two in E/W on top of the coals, to burn them down in the evening, before the overnight reload. But even there, I found it works better to put those splits in N/S, after raking the coals forward. The new N/S splits cover less of that coal bed, which runs E/W at the door sill, and lets them burn down faster.

 

[mcdeadstein]

I’m about 8 hours drive east of you, and my price for Ashford 30.1’s was in the high $2k’s. I got a good discount for buying two at once, but LIST price here was $3500 with fans, two years ago.

What’s this “well north of $4k” talk? Time to find another stove shop, IMO.

The Ashford 25 was well over 4k + tax. Yeah its time to shop around. This was a pool and spa place that didn't seem to have interest in selling stoves. They didn't know much about them and couldn't answer questions. On top of that they didn't do the install or service. Only concern I have is traveling far and how that may impact warranty coverage.

 

[begreen]

Only concern I have is traveling far and how that may impact warranty coverage.

It shouldn't but give BK a call if concerned.

 

[becasunshine]

What more impacted us was home owner's insurance coverage. Our insurance company mandated a professional installation otherwise we'd void our policy in terms of any problem caused by the stove.

 

[jetsam]

This is interesting. After burning about 30 cords E/W, I switched, and now I’ve burned about 25 cords N/S. I’ve never seen the direction of loading as any impact on my ability to plow ash back and rake coals forward, prior to loading in the wood. Just level it all out, and you’re good to go, in either direction.

I also used to do the thing of throwing a single split or two in E/W on top of the coals, to burn them down in the evening, before the overnight reload. But even there, I found it works better to put those splits in N/S, after raking the coals forward. The new N/S splits cover less of that coal bed, which runs E/W at the door sill, and lets them burn down faster.

I'm leaving a big mountain of coal at the front of the firebox, leaving the back almost empty. I am not then leveling the coals (which is how I came to go E/W, since N/S doesn't work very well when the back of the stove is 10" lower than the front). I chuck E/W splits over the top of Coal Mountain into the back (thus the singed arm hair) and straighten them up with a poker. The split on top of Coal Mountain burns first, then the coals, then the middle and back rows.

This is only even an issue in below-freezing weather; the stove eats all the coals no matter how you load it otherwise. Also wouldn't be an issue if I'd laid in enough pine for this year! Won't be a problem next year. >:|

 

[mcdeadstein]

What more impacted us was home owner's insurance coverage. Our insurance company mandated a professional installation otherwise we'd void our policy in terms of any problem caused by the stove.

Thank you for the insight. I will have to give my ins company a call.

 

[Ashful]

Warranty: Shouldn’t be an issue. BK is remarkably good on warranty support. Heck, they’re pretty good about supporting beyond warranty, too.

Insurance: You can always hire a certified sweep to do the installation, or final hookup, for you. He doesn’t have to work for the shop that sold you the stove.

 

[begreen]

Insurance: You can always hire a certified sweep to do the installation, or final hookup, for you. He doesn’t have to work for the shop that sold you the stove.

And one can change the insurance company.

 

[mcdeadstein]

My insurance company did not have any restrictions. They asked me if I wanted to increase my total coverage on the residence to include replacement of the full value of the insert. They also asked that I send them the make/model of the insert. My rates will not change and no mention of needing a professional installation or inspection. Now, had this been a stand-alone wood burning stove install that may have changed things.

 

[MissMac]

Hi Everyone, I am in Western PA. Was quoted $3900 + Tax for a BKPU Insert with a large surround and a black door. I thought this seemed high so I am going to shop around. From reading other threads it seems prices increase from west coast -> east coast. The Ashford was well north of 4k. I am considering driving to WV or other locations if the price will drop significantly.

I'm sure the prices that you will find in your neck of the woods are different than in mine, but one thing I can tell you is that in hindsight, if I was to purchase my stove over again I would have gone to a dealer myself, close to where I live, so that I had that support from the dealer should I need it. Versus trying to deal with follow-up through a third party, for example an installer. Something to consider.

 

[webby3650]

It still blows my mind how many shops sell stoves and don’t do any installs. Or shops that sub out the work. Boo!

 

[Tegbert]

It still blows my mind how many shops sell stoves and don’t do any installs. Or shops that sub out the work. Boo!

When I bought my lopi I had no clue that they didn’t install them. Didn’t even cross my mind to ask as I assumed that was what they did. When I had an issue with the door I called them and they told me to call the installer as they were the ones who needed to deal with warranty work. Of course it took two weeks for them to come out just to look at it and another two for them to receive it and replace it. The dealer doesn’t even order parts they refer you to another dealer to do that. Needless to say I won’t be buying a stove from them in the future.




Lopi Rockport
Blaze King Ashford 25

 

[webby3650]

When I bought my lopi I had no clue that they didn’t install them. Didn’t even cross my mind to ask as I assumed that was what they did. When I had an issue with the door I called them and they told me to call the installer as they were the ones who needed to deal with warranty work. Of course it took two weeks for them to come out just to look at it and another two for them to receive it and replace it. The dealer doesn’t even order parts they refer you to another dealer to do that. Needless to say I won’t be buying a stove from them in the future.




Lopi Rockport
Blaze King Ashford 25

Almost always, we have the potential replacement parts with us when we come to look at the problem. For free! Like it should be.

 

[Woody Stover]

The shop owner showed me the little ash chute in the bottom of one of his floor model stoves and explained that you have to rake the ashes back and forth over that tiny hole to drop them into the pan. That looked tedious to me, when I can remove ashes by the shovel full and dump them in a bucket.

Easy ash-handling is high on my list, especially since I have a smaller stove and need an easy way to get ash out of the box to make maximum room if I need it. It doesn't get any easier than swirling a poker through the ash a couple times and letting it drop into the pan..done. By the time you get out the vacuum and set it up, I've already taken the pan out, dumped it, replaced it, and I'm back loafing on the internet. I'll admit, it's not a big deal..even with my little stove, I only swirl the poker every day or two, pull the ash pan every 3-4 days. And you aren't removing ash all that often either, I don't think.
The Buck 91 had a real good ash dump, 3.5 x 5.5" with a hinged lid. It was in the left side of the floor so it was easy to put the coals over on the right side, if you needed to get ash out when the stove was running. The belly on that stove isn't deep so you need to manage ash pretty closely. The great ash dump made that pretty easy. I had to pull the pan every three days since the pan had no all on the back. It made dumping the pan easy but you had to pull it before it got too full and started coming out the back of the pan.

couldn't see fiddling with the hot plug....emptying the ashes ....and then taking/leaving the ash pan outside in the snow overnight to let it cool before dumping it into the very same bucket I usually use for the task. I simply want to perform the task and be done with it

Sure, you can try to imagine how it will work without ever trying it, but once you actually try it you figure out how to do it efficiently.
What I do is dump the ash into the pan, then let the pan sit in the stove for a day or two...or more with a deep-bellied stove. Then you pull the pan after any coals in it have burned down, when it's pretty cool. Then take it outside and dump it into the can, bring pan back to the stove. I have a 10-gallon can outside, and a 6-gallon backup. With the grate, only small coals can ever get into the pan, so they are mostly out when I pull the pan, even if it's only a day later. I still need a glove but it's not very hot.

Lets not forget, for some, they get turned on with a good ash grate design over performance.

Aw man, you just had to stir the pot, didn't ya? Maybe you are one of those "trolls" that have been posted about in this thread?
What is this "performance" of which you speak? A long burn? I loaded 12+ hrs. ago. It was right at 32* out overnight, with light breeze..now it's at 26 and falling, breeze is picking up as the cold front comes through. The stove top is down to 170 now but it's still 74 in this somewhat leaky house with un-insulated walls and I'm in a tee shirt (that's on top, yes I still have pants on.) When it gets warmer out, shoulder season, the house will hold temp even longer, and if the stove eventually burns totally out, no coals after 24 hrs, I don't care..I've perfected a method of easily getting a new fire going. So I've got the "long burn" covered to my satisfaction.. with a 1.5 cu.ft. box.
The bottom line is that no matter the stove we may have, we have generally found something that works for us, whatever the brand.
What other "performance" numbers can we consider? Let's take high output. My little Keystone is only beaten by the King, and about equal to the Princess, according to the EPA test numbers. The rest of the BK line, the inserts and the 20/20.1 and 30/30.1 boxes, have high-end output at or lower than my Dutchwest Small Convection 2460. That BK may work fine where you are, in "Sunny New Mexico," but here where it gets cold and stays cold on occasion, we need to kick the stove in the butt once in a while and get some output.
It's hard to get big heat out of the BKs since they have shielding sheet metal inside the firebox..the same type of shielding you would put on a combustible wall to reduce clearances.
That brings up a related question; What goes on behind those shields? What happens if you don't burn the stove wide open for a half hour on each reload? Would the gooey creo build up behind the shields on the walls of the stove that even less heat would be transmitted through them, leaving only the front and top of the stove to transfer heat? If you run the stove wide open on each reload, what is behind the shields, a big pile of crusty creo? These are questions I have, and I'll wait for the usual response on this thread...crickets.
As I said above, few of these "performance" differences make a hill of beans difference; We've (mostly) been able to find a stove that works well enough for us. If that's a BK for you, great. Just understand that it's not going to be the same for everyone else.
What I also look at, which others may not, is the engineering, execution and quality of the design and build. Here's just one recent example of what I'm talking about.

I was beyond frustrated with the original ash pan setup on my Ashfords. But BK fixed it in my second year with these stoves

What? The ashes don't land in the pan, and instead end up in the ash pan housing? How does a flaw like that ever get as far as the production phase? Not an isolated case of something they have to go back and fix later. Doesn't inspire a lot of confidence, for me anyway. At least they make an effort to address these issues.

I looked at a new ashford the other day at the dealer. i was impressed by the quality ash pan rails that it slides in and out on.

The Buck and the Keystone pans just lie on the floor of the ash pan housing and slide out, and back in. Can you describe these "rails" and what impressed you about them?

This was a pool and spa place that didn't seem to have interest in selling stoves. They didn't know much about them and couldn't answer questions. On top of that they didn't do the install or service

Hmmm. At least you have BKVP to apply the heat in such cases...
Like I said before, who gives a carp about any of this? Everybody's got a stove that more or less works..we're not freezing. Just trying to counter some of the "fake news" and keep it real, here in Koolaid Land.

No. Pizza requires high temp to bake properly.

Not much heat down there with a double layer of bricks..

 

[Tegbert]

Almost always, we have the potential replacement parts with us when we come to look at the problem. For free! Like it should be.

Unfortunately the door itself was warped or something. Not sure too many people would have a replacement door but it all worked out in the end just took longer than I wanted it to.


Lopi Rockport
Blaze King Ashford 25

 

[Woody Stover]

When I bought my lopi I had no clue that they didn’t install them. ...When I had an issue with the door I called them and they told me to call the installer as they were the ones who needed to deal with warranty work. Of course it took two weeks for them to come out just to look at it and another two for them to receive it and replace it. The dealer doesn’t even order parts they refer you to another dealer to do that. Needless to say I won’t be buying a stove from them in the future.

If you're handy, just buy the stove you like and figure on doing any work (within reason) on it yourself. If not, you are unfortunately at the mercy of spotty support.

 

[lsucet]

Aw man, you just had to stir the pot, didn't ya? Maybe you are one of those "trolls" that have been posted about in this thread?
What is this "performance" of which you speak? A long burn? I loaded 12+ hrs. ago. It was right at 32* out overnight, with light breeze..now it's at 26 and falling, breeze is picking up as the cold front comes through. The stove top is down to 170 now but it's still 74 in this somewhat leaky house with un-insulated walls and I'm in a tee shirt (that's on top, yes I still have pants on.) When it gets warmer out, shoulder season, the house will hold temp even longer, and if the stove eventually burns totally out, no coals after 24 hrs, I don't care..I've perfected a method of easily getting a new fire going. So I've got the "long burn" covered to my satisfaction.. with a 1.5 cu.ft. box.
The bottom line is that no matter the stove we may have, we have generally found something that works for us, whatever the brand.
What other "performance" numbers can we consider? Let's take high output. My little Keystone is only beaten by the King, and about equal to the Princess, according to the EPA test numbers. The rest of the BK line, the inserts and the 20/20.1 and 30/30.1 boxes, have high-end output at or lower than my Dutchwest Small Convection 2460. That BK may work fine where you are, in "Sunny New Mexico," but here where it gets cold and stays cold on occasion, we need to kick the stove in the butt once in a while and get some output.
It's hard to get big heat out of the BKs since they have shielding sheet metal inside the firebox..the same type of shielding you would put on a combustible wall to reduce clearances.
That brings up a related question; What goes on behind those shields? What happens if you don't burn the stove wide open for a half hour on each reload? Would the gooey creo build up behind the shields on the walls of the stove that even less heat would be transmitted through them, leaving only the front and top of the stove to transfer heat? If you run the stove wide open on each reload, what is behind the shields, a big pile of crusty creo? These are questions I have, and I'll wait for the usual response on this thread...crickets.
As I said above, few of these "performance" differences make a hill of beans difference; We've (mostly) been able to find a stove that works well enough for us. If that's a BK for you, great. Just understand that it's not going to be the same for everyone else.
What I also look at, which others may not, is the engineering, execution and quality of the design and build. Here's just one recent example of what I'm talking about.

I never thought I will be successful on my purpose. BUT I WAS

 

[Tegbert]

If you're handy, just buy the stove you like and figure on doing any work (within reason) on it yourself. If not, you are unfortunately at the mercy of spotty support.

I am pretty handy but at the time had no time to install it myself so I scheduled them to do it. Unfortunately I noticed that it wasn’t burning the way it should and went to adjust the door. But when I did the dollar bill test the hinge side was still loose with no way to adjust it. But because I wasn’t about to buy a new door for a new stove (about a month old) I had to have the dealer verify and call it in to process the warranty replacement.


Lopi Rockport
Blaze King Ashford 25

 

[webby3650]

Unfortunately the door itself was warped or something. Not sure too many people would have a replacement door but it all worked out in the end just took longer than I wanted it to.


Lopi Rockport
Blaze King Ashford 25

Well, we wouldn’t have a door for a rockport... but any steel Lopi we would.

Most parts take 4 days to get, not 2 weeks.

 

[webby3650]

Well, we wouldn’t have a door for a rockport... but any steel Lopi we would.

Most parts take 4 days to get, not 2 weeks.

I’ll also add, we would most likely eat the cost of the replacement part and we would eat the warranty service call for a certainty! Lopi very rarely accepts the fact that they had a faulty part and makes the dealer fight for any reimbursement.
For a short time there was a tech from Lopi on here. I’m afraid I ran him off...

 

[becasunshine]

OK, this was almost 4 years ago, so I'm not remembering the details all that well. I *think* this is what I saw, but I could be remembering it wrong. Please correct me if I am.

I *think* we were shown a Vermont Castings stove with an ash grate with a "diagonal" design. I wondered about losing (what I consider to be) valuable embers and coals down through that grate prematurely. I thought the Vermont Castings stove was gorgeous but it wasn't a Blaze King, and I *really really* wanted a Blaze King.

We asked about ash mitigation in the Blaze King, and IIRC, we were told that the ash chute was a small opening in the bottom of the stove, into which one must rake ashes. Per above, it sounded tedious to me, so I passed. We were shown a stove with a small ash chute opening in the bottom. I cannot for the life of me remember if it was an actual Blaze King with an ash pan, or if it was another model with a similar ash chute. At any rate, the small opening in the bottom of the stove was, just that, quite small. I had visions of me raking embers and coals back and forth over this tiny hole, trying to sort out ash, for hours, days, years of my life. =/

Given the explanation above, that the raking process does indeed separate ash from embers and (value added) yields more room in the stove for more fuel, that could prove useful.

Most of the time we can burn down for days on end, using the coals and embers for warmer afternoons, and eventually getting to a day where we can let the stove burn down to ash then shovel it out. Rarely we have a very cold spell for days on end, in which we build up coals, and during which it would be more convenient to be able to "rake out" ash into an ash pan.

I guess this, like everything else, it's climate and situationally dependent.

 

[Tar12]

When I settled on the stove I wanted to buy it was a BK....I did not want a ash pan period but it was standard on the Ultra and it took the Ultra decked out to be legal and accepted by my insurance company for a manufactured home and I wanted a pedestal stove. Like I said before I tried the ash pan and it is pathetically small for the size of stove it resides in IMO..a 6.5 deep by 8.5 wide pan is not very much when you are in the deep of winter pushing a stove I assure you...larger ash pan? I would probably use it but then again I did not buy it for a ash pan..

 

[webby3650]

Yeah, the ashpan works really well. All of you who choose not to even try, too bad... I’ve had a bunch of stoves, this system is at the top of my list for usability and cleanliness.

 

[Woody Stover]

I tried the ash pan and it is pathetically small for the size of stove it resides in IMO..a 6.5 deep by 8.5 wide pan is not very much when you are in the deep of winter pushing a stove I assure you...larger ash pan?

Seems like it would hold quite a bit. The Buck pan I pictured above is longer but much shallower. I could burn about three or four full loads, then I would have to pull the pan or risk ash spilling out the back.

Yeah, the ashpan works really well. All of you who choose not to even try, too bad... I’ve had a bunch of stoves, this system is at the top of my list for usability and cleanliness.

Any way you can measure the opening? I realize it could be a few days before you want to let the stove burn down..got cold on us again, didn't it?

 

[kf6hap]

I scoop the ashes out while the flue is still hot with the ash bucket right next to the stove. Most of the fly ash gets sucked back into the stove. Tilting the bucket the ashes are laid on the bottom of the bucket, never letting them fly through the air. Too easy. Handle the ashes once. Two ash buckets, one to use and one to let age for a week before dumping it back in the forest. Sometimes I dump a bucket of ashes in a little plastic dog house for the chickens to dust about in. It kills the fleas and turns the California Whites an odd gray. Cheaper than diatomaceous earth. I don't know why it doesn't burn there eyes though. They enjoy a good roll in the ashes too.