2017-18 Blaze King Performance Thread (Everything BK)

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Question: how delicate are the bypass retainers? I reloaded after coming in from a cold and rainy trick or treat this evening, and turned the thermostat to high. Ran the little ones upstairs to get them in the bath, and came back down maybe 15-20 minutes later. The firebox was roaring of course, and then I realized I never closed the bypass lever. Did I just screw the pooch?

Almost too delicate and definitely too hard to replace. Really the Achilles heel of this stove. I recall reading that they are designed to be a failsafe melt away thing (fusible link) so that they can be replaced instead of the whole cat chamber or your house! It's no secret that I have melted mine with no particular event such as forgetting about the stove during warm up. I melted just the front one right behind the cat and for all I know it had more to do with a new hyperactive cat and resinous soft woods than running with an open bypass during warm up.

The retainers are welded in with a skip weld and large gaps. The retainers will sag between the welds but still provide a pretty good gasket seal until you can bend them back into shape or replace them.

At this point it is what it is. Run your fingers along the retainers from below and feel for sags. If you find sags then you can dollar bill test the seal.
 
So, when I had my stoves cleaned out this past summer, the guys doing the job commented that my one stove was the biggest mess of creosote they’ve ever seen. They literally had to spend more than an hour with hammer and chisel, chiseling the bricks out of the rear corner, which were glued into the stove with creosote. The job was more than half finished before I got home (they arrived much earlier than scheduled), but given the racket they were making with the hammer and chisel, I just hope no welds were broken on that relatively thin steel box.

While the firebox was a mess, the chimney was clean, indicating the cat was doing its job, and that my burning habits aren’t all THAT bad. Also, I have two of the same stoves at opposite ends of the house, and the other Ashford was “normal”, in their words. Only one was badly gunked up, and it seemed to be concentrated in the rear of the firebox.

Summary of the two stoves:

Dirty stove (hereafter “stove #1”): Installed on 15 feet of pipe, run on 24 hour reloads, heating < 2000 sq.ft. Located in a deep exterior stone fireplace, with approximately 1 foot of space behind stove to rear wall of fireplace.

Clean stove (hereafter “stove #2”): Installed on 30 feet of pipe, run on 12 hour reloads, heating 4000 sq.ft. Located in shallow exterior stone fireplace, such that back of stove is only 4” from rear wall.

Without boring everyone with every detail of my reload and operational procedure, I’ll point out a few things that I think might be contributing:

1. I leave my fans running, on a very low setting, all of the time. I do not shut them down when reloading. I had previously thought the only reason for shutting off the fans would be to get a more accurate cat probe reading (fans blow across probe shaft on the Ashford 30), and I really don’t need a more accurate cat probe reading, my clean chimney being good evidence that I’m getting good cat response.

2. I typically run the stove on high for 15 minutes before closing the bypass damper, while the fire gets going, and then another 20 minutes after. This is based on the manual instructions to “run the stove on high 20 - 30 minutes, or until the fire is well established.” After this, I turn the t'stat to about 4-o'clock, which is what gives me a 24-hour burn.

3. This stove is run every day, all day, on cycles of at least 24 hours. In the shoulder seasons, I will sometimes run it on 30 - 36 hour cycles, or whatever I can get out of it. During the bulk of the winter it’s loaded every 24 hours, and run down to coals between loads.

Knowing there is (or at least was, before all that hammering of chisels) no leak in the firebox, as evidence by my ability to maintain 30+ hour burn times, I am beginning to suspect that running the fans during that 20 - 30 minute wide-open burn are the cause of this mayhem. Could they be cooling the outer steel of the firebox sufficiently, to prevent any creo that collects between the bricks and steel to not burn off, as intended?

Should I become more concerned with my wood quality? I haven't MM'd the wood in several years, knowing it's been stacked > 2.5 years outdoors, and top-covered before our fall rains start each year. It seems dry to me, and the cats always light-off without issue, but maybe it's not dry enough for 24+ hour burning.

Or, is this just what anyone would expect, when a stove is run day-in / day-out on long 24-hour burn cycles, and never pushed any harder? Now, before you King guys answer, and say 24 hours is nothing, remember this is a much smaller stove, so the burn rate I have to maintain for 24+ hour burns might be more like your 40+ hour burn rates.

Thanks!

The fans aren't helping, but I think the real culprit is your consistent schedule.

Once a week on your days off in the winter, let the dirty stove burn on high for a 4 hours or so. Problem over!

You do have to reload it an extra time per week, but you'll be compensated in your oil bill.
 
So, when I had my stoves cleaned out this past summer, the guys doing the job commented that my one stove was the biggest mess of creosote they’ve ever seen. They literally had to spend more than an hour with hammer and chisel, chiseling the bricks out of the rear corner, which were glued into the stove with creosote. The job was more than half finished before I got home (they arrived much earlier than scheduled), but given the racket they were making with the hammer and chisel, I just hope no welds were broken on that relatively thin steel box.

While the firebox was a mess, the chimney was clean, indicating the cat was doing its job, and that my burning habits aren’t all THAT bad. Also, I have two of the same stoves at opposite ends of the house, and the other Ashford was “normal”, in their words. Only one was badly gunked up, and it seemed to be concentrated in the rear of the firebox.

Summary of the two stoves:

Dirty stove (hereafter “stove #1”): Installed on 15 feet of pipe, run on 24 hour reloads, heating < 2000 sq.ft. Located in a deep exterior stone fireplace, with approximately 1 foot of space behind stove to rear wall of fireplace.

Clean stove (hereafter “stove #2”): Installed on 30 feet of pipe, run on 12 hour reloads, heating 4000 sq.ft. Located in shallow exterior stone fireplace, such that back of stove is only 4” from rear wall.

Without boring everyone with every detail of my reload and operational procedure, I’ll point out a few things that I think might be contributing:

1. I leave my fans running, on a very low setting, all of the time. I do not shut them down when reloading. I had previously thought the only reason for shutting off the fans would be to get a more accurate cat probe reading (fans blow across probe shaft on the Ashford 30), and I really don’t need a more accurate cat probe reading, my clean chimney being good evidence that I’m getting good cat response.

2. I typically run the stove on high for 15 minutes before closing the bypass damper, while the fire gets going, and then another 20 minutes after. This is based on the manual instructions to “run the stove on high 20 - 30 minutes, or until the fire is well established.” After this, I turn the t'stat to about 4-o'clock, which is what gives me a 24-hour burn.

3. This stove is run every day, all day, on cycles of at least 24 hours. In the shoulder seasons, I will sometimes run it on 30 - 36 hour cycles, or whatever I can get out of it. During the bulk of the winter it’s loaded every 24 hours, and run down to coals between loads.

Knowing there is (or at least was, before all that hammering of chisels) no leak in the firebox, as evidence by my ability to maintain 30+ hour burn times, I am beginning to suspect that running the fans during that 20 - 30 minute wide-open burn are the cause of this mayhem. Could they be cooling the outer steel of the firebox sufficiently, to prevent any creo that collects between the bricks and steel to not burn off, as intended?

Should I become more concerned with my wood quality? I haven't MM'd the wood in several years, knowing it's been stacked > 2.5 years outdoors, and top-covered before our fall rains start each year. It seems dry to me, and the cats always light-off without issue, but maybe it's not dry enough for 24+ hour burning.

Or, is this just what anyone would expect, when a stove is run day-in / day-out on long 24-hour burn cycles, and never pushed any harder? Now, before you King guys answer, and say 24 hours is nothing, remember this is a much smaller stove, so the burn rate I have to maintain for 24+ hour burns might be more like your 40+ hour burn rates.

Thanks!

Do people really remove and clean behind their bricks? I would classify the "stuff" behind bricks as nobody's business, out of site out of mind. I'm sure it's pretty gross behind mine too!
 
I had a pretty thickly creoe'd stove the first few months of using the Ashford. My remedy was to do a longer load char in the beginning and that fixed it. Hard to do in the shoulder season as the house gets quite hot. I think leaving the fans off will let the chamber get a lot hotter to burn off the buildup. I don't have fans. My wood is cut split stacked and burned the same year. Moisture (mostly) below 20% Pine/oak/madrone. Personally. I don't think creo buildup in the combustion chamber is much of a problem. If it ignites the thermostat will control the burn. In a non BK it might rage out of control.
 
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The fans aren't helping, but I think the real culprit is your consistent schedule.

Once a week on your days off in the winter, let the dirty stove burn on high for a 4 hours or so. Problem over!

You do have to reload it an extra time per week, but you'll be compensated in your oil bill.
I agree it might help. The reason I haven't done that before is that this one is in the newer part of the house, in a 900 sq.ft. room that is almost entirely glass, and very well insulated. I would probably roast us out of the house if I ran this stove on high more than 30 minutes, especially any day with sunlight. In other words, I'll need to run with a few open windows, the draft from which will surely bother a few folks here.

Do people really remove and clean behind their bricks? I would classify the "stuff" behind bricks as nobody's business, out of site out of mind. I'm sure it's pretty gross behind mine too!

I was thinking the same, when I saw them in there chiseling. Why would anyone care if their bricks are glued into the stove with creo? It's not like they were broken. I suspect these guys are just very thorough, and like to remove all of the bricks to inspect the stove, with each yearly service. I really don't know...

I had a pretty thickly creoe'd stove the first few months of using the Ashford. My remedy was to do a longer load char in the beginning and that fixed it.
Do you leave your fans running, or shut them off for this char load?

Personally. I don't think creo buildup in the combustion chamber is much of a problem. If it ignites the thermostat will control the burn.
Agreed, but the service guys from the stove shop seemed real bothered by it. Again, the chimney was clean, only the firebox was messy.
 
@Ashful , i think creosote in the back of the box is just like creosote on the window glass.

Just turn the tstat up and let the stove clean itself every once in a while.

I worked hard for those btus, when i get flakes of that black tarry stuff in the back of the box i scrape them down a little with the BK tool, leave them in the firebox and give them another chance to meet mister combustor.

Yale in particular has a critical mass of well published profs in multiple fields who study why people make the choices they make. Watching my local citizens deal with dirty air and mounting scientific evidence has revealed some flavors of dysfunction i havent previously encountered.
 
I have no fans.

Agreed, but the service guys from the stove shop seemed real bothered by it. Again, the chimney was clean, only the firebox was messy.

I would expect them to be bothered as it is a real problem in other stoves.
 
I would probably roast us out of the house if I ran this stove on high more than 30 minutes, especially any day with sunlight. In other words, I'll need to run with a few open windows, the draft from which will surely bother a few folks here.

Maybe skip a reload before your day off, let the room cool down a bit, then burn a small red hot fire (pretend it's a tube stove!), then go back to regular operation.

I hate to think about a BK owner opening windows! Horrors! :)
 
Well Ashful's story inspired me to crank it up. I could see a lot of creosote buildup on the metal above the bricks after only burning it on low for 2 weeks. The glass didn't get a clean as I would've hoped though. You don't really appreciate the turn down capability until you experience a couple hours of high fire. But it's impressive how well the thermostat keeps it from going nuclear. Even on high the flames mostly go away after a while and you just see a bed of red hot, seething coals with some wispy flames floating around.
 
Even on high the flames mostly go away after a while and you just see a bed of red hot, seething coals with some wispy flames floating around.

Yes, that is the wonderful BK thermostatic control in action.
 
So, when I had my stoves cleaned out this past summer, the guys doing the job commented that my one stove was the biggest mess of creosote they’ve ever seen. They literally had to spend more than an hour with hammer and chisel, chiseling the bricks out of the rear corner, which were glued into the stove with creosote. The job was more than half finished before I got home (they arrived much earlier than scheduled), but given the racket they were making with the hammer and chisel, I just hope no welds were broken on that relatively thin steel box.

While the firebox was a mess, the chimney was clean, indicating the cat was doing its job, and that my burning habits aren’t all THAT bad. Also, I have two of the same stoves at opposite ends of the house, and the other Ashford was “normal”, in their words. Only one was badly gunked up, and it seemed to be concentrated in the rear of the firebox.

Summary of the two stoves:

Dirty stove (hereafter “stove #1”): Installed on 15 feet of pipe, run on 24 hour reloads, heating < 2000 sq.ft. Located in a deep exterior stone fireplace, with approximately 1 foot of space behind stove to rear wall of fireplace.

Clean stove (hereafter “stove #2”): Installed on 30 feet of pipe, run on 12 hour reloads, heating 4000 sq.ft. Located in shallow exterior stone fireplace, such that back of stove is only 4” from rear wall.

Without boring everyone with every detail of my reload and operational procedure, I’ll point out a few things that I think might be contributing:

1. I leave my fans running, on a very low setting, all of the time. I do not shut them down when reloading. I had previously thought the only reason for shutting off the fans would be to get a more accurate cat probe reading (fans blow across probe shaft on the Ashford 30), and I really don’t need a more accurate cat probe reading, my clean chimney being good evidence that I’m getting good cat response.

2. I typically run the stove on high for 15 minutes before closing the bypass damper, while the fire gets going, and then another 20 minutes after. This is based on the manual instructions to “run the stove on high 20 - 30 minutes, or until the fire is well established.” After this, I turn the t'stat to about 4-o'clock, which is what gives me a 24-hour burn.

3. This stove is run every day, all day, on cycles of at least 24 hours. In the shoulder seasons, I will sometimes run it on 30 - 36 hour cycles, or whatever I can get out of it. During the bulk of the winter it’s loaded every 24 hours, and run down to coals between loads.

Knowing there is (or at least was, before all that hammering of chisels) no leak in the firebox, as evidence by my ability to maintain 30+ hour burn times, I am beginning to suspect that running the fans during that 20 - 30 minute wide-open burn are the cause of this mayhem. Could they be cooling the outer steel of the firebox sufficiently, to prevent any creo that collects between the bricks and steel to not burn off, as intended?

Should I become more concerned with my wood quality? I haven't MM'd the wood in several years, knowing it's been stacked > 2.5 years outdoors, and top-covered before our fall rains start each year. It seems dry to me, and the cats always light-off without issue, but maybe it's not dry enough for 24+ hour burning.

Or, is this just what anyone would expect, when a stove is run day-in / day-out on long 24-hour burn cycles, and never pushed any harder? Now, before you King guys answer, and say 24 hours is nothing, remember this is a much smaller stove, so the burn rate I have to maintain for 24+ hour burns might be more like your 40+ hour burn rates.

Thanks!


A hot fire would have done what the hammer and chisel did, and easier.

Those last few spring time fires were likely low and slow with outside temps above 50*F. so less draw and the stove got gunked up.

I would leave the chimney sweeping to the sweeps and the stove cleaning to the fire.

Edit to say; This whole page wasn't showing up on my I-phone until after I posted or I wouldn't have chimed in with the same ol' advice you were given above.

This is the second time this has happened this Fall.
 
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Woooohoooo first fire of the 2017 :) the day before Halloween. Outside temps are like 40. Looking forward to installing my second Blaze King Princess in my upstairs part of the house. Maybe ill do it this year we shall see.

Hope everyone has been good.
 
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On account of the wind / rain storm yesterday I had to work an 18hr shift doing power company stuff, I got home a little after 11 last night, dog tired, unfortunately since it was warm / humid Sunday into Monday I left a number of windows 1/4 way open, it was only 56 deg inside with a low temp forecasted to bottom out in the mid 30's. I split some kindling up, got some newspaper and set the princess up for a burn, I did something a little different though, instead of match lighting the newspaper I tool my mapps gas torch and lit the stove that way..omg so much easier, 30 sec with the torch going then instant door close, by-pass open, I took a quick shower and returned to see the cat almost in the active zone so I loaded up larger oak and ash pieces, closed the by-pass then prepared the coffee pot for my 4:45 wake up, I returned to the stove again, everything was going, turned the air down and went to bed, woke up and the house was up to 72 at 5am, no need to add wood since the fire box still had half a load in there. Impressed, that's all. From cold stove to cruise on your own alien mode - 25 min.
 
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Playing the "how fast can you get the cat to light-off" game is fun. "Light-off" or "light fires" is Navy terminology for starting the boilers. Long rod with a rag soaked in fuel does it.
 
Hmmmm. Fuel soaked wood. How interesting, but I would not recommend it as dear old clear K-1 might contain elements injurious to the cat. You could use rags, though. I would not recommend this procedure for a BK. OK for air-tubers. I used to use this procedure (sans spray bottle) with my my non cats for decades.Years ago, you used to be able to buy paint thinner and naphtha from gasoline style pumps. Bring your own container. "white"gas too.
 
I believe our "down home country girl" actually has kerosene-spattered wax logs in there, not wood. (Though I guess the storebought 1x3 dimensional lumber she describes as "kindling" is wood.)

The spray bottle is just one piece of the specialness. I want to see part 2 where she shows us how to use the spray bottle to restart a low fire. ;lol
 
Bottom line: If you see flames, wood is being wasted. A 900F flue is not efficient unless you are trying to keep the fruit trees around your house from freezing. The metallic particles and chemicals in the sparkle logs are pretty to watch though.
 
If it wasn't the end of October I'd say that video was an April Fool's joke. Can you imagine the liability associated with telling someone to spray kerosene into a fireplace inside an insured building?
The video author responds to some comments (including one from a hearth member) but clearly doesn't seem to get it.
 
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He says the video is ok and the cat's warranty won't be voided because people will scroll down
If it wasn't the end of October I'd say that video was an April Fool's joke. Can you imagine the liability associated with telling someone to spray kerosene into a fireplace inside an insured building?
The video author responds to some comments (including one from a hearth member) but clearly doesn't seem to get it.

They also used a catalytic stove for their down home country, wax-log-burning, kerosene-spraying video. :)
 
Almost too delicate and definitely too hard to replace. Really the Achilles heel of this stove. I recall reading that they are designed to be a failsafe melt away thing (fusible link) so that they can be replaced instead of the whole cat chamber or your house! It's no secret that I have melted mine with no particular event such as forgetting about the stove during warm up. I melted just the front one right behind the cat and for all I know it had more to do with a new hyperactive cat and resinous soft woods than running with an open bypass during warm up.

The retainers are welded in with a skip weld and large gaps. The retainers will sag between the welds but still provide a pretty good gasket seal until you can bend them back into shape or replace them.

At this point it is what it is. Run your fingers along the retainers from below and feel for sags. If you find sags then you can dollar bill test the seal.
New stove owner here (Sirocco). Is it sufficient to check this once a year at start of season?
 
New stove owner here (Sirocco). Is it sufficient to check this once a year at start of season?

Check it as often as you would like but especially after an "event". Wait for the stove to cool. Even if the bypass gasket leaks as a result of melted retainers it just means lower efficiency and increased pollution since that smoke won't be hitting the catalyst.
 
Question on extended roof support brackets for chimney height over 4-5 feet. My house is fairly small, and the chimney rises out of the roof within about 2' of the ridgeline of a simple gable roof. The support brackets are advertised as having a 60 degree spread,
Check it as often as you would like but especially after an "event". Wait for the stove to cool. Even if the bypass gasket leaks as a result of melted retainers it just means lower efficiency and increased pollution since that smoke won't be hitting the catalyst.
Great. Thanks.
 
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