2017-18 Blaze King Performance Thread (Everything BK)

[Highbeam]

IMHO simple is better with wood burning. Couldn't the delay in the thermostat allow stove top temp to come up too fast and too high will burning a full load at WOT? Throw in another variable (draft, wood species/size/dryness, weather) and I'm not convinced the t-stat alone can prevent over-firing.

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I don't find the response time to be too slow. Certainly not so slow as to overshoot to an unsafe level. This isn't a noncat with unregulated air feeds that cause a spiral of increasing temperature rate increase. Ack, bad memories of calculus, exponential increase in temperature increase rate.

The stove just doesn't heat up that fast and the stat reacts sufficiently fast in my experience to prevent overfire on top and cat stall on the bottom. I can sit there and watch it open and close which causes the fire to brighten and dim. This happens a couple of times with each load as it settles in with my install.

 

[WoodyIsGoody]

IMHO simple is better with wood burning. Couldn't the delay in the thermostat allow stove top temp to come up too fast and too high will burning a full load at WOT? Throw in another variable (draft, wood species/size/dryness, weather) and I'm not convinced the t-stat alone can prevent over-firing.

I brought this up in an earlier post and, yes, I believe that's correct. But probably not with regular cordwood. And any over-firing you managed to create with the "ideal" load (to achieve over firing) would be brief, until the thermostat kicked in, and likely non-catastrophic.

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I bet you can customize that message to something non-corporate (non-advertising), or eliminate it altogether.

 

[WoodyIsGoody]

Do you guys turn your stat up at the end of a burn cycle to keep the cat in the active zone longer or let it be? It really tempting to turn it up as you see the cat thermometer dropping during the end of a cycle.
I noticed I had some chunks left in my firebox this morning, that might have been consumed if my stat was left a little higher.

That depends upon what you're trying to achieve. If the fire is down to coaling stage and the cat is still active but heading towards inactive, it's often better to turn it down further. This helps maintain an active cat for more hours by reducing the cooling effect of excessive intake air. Any coals remaining unburnt (which have been very minimal in my experience) can be raked forward before the next fire.

Yes, letting the thermostat open on it's own as the fire cools can consume all of the coals but it causes the cat to go inactive at a earlier stage of the burn cycle.

 

[webby3650]

IMHO simple is better with wood burning. Couldn't the delay in the thermostat allow stove top temp to come up too fast and too high will burning a full load at WOT? Throw in another variable (draft, wood species/size/dryness, weather) and I'm not convinced the t-stat alone can prevent over-firing.

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Which a Blaze King model do you have?

 

[tarzan]

Not bashing tube stoves BUT I feel much safer about leaving my throttle wide open on the BK than I ever did just running a tube stove at the same exact draft setting night after night.

I can guarantee you I had, and slept through, an overfired tube stove on more than one occasion. The scenario was always the same, set the intake air setting to its normal near closed position, go to bed, outside temps plummet, draft strengthens, stove goes nuclear.

Sometimes the sound of the stove pinging woke me up, sometimes not. Either way I was glad I followed safe install instructions!

 

[SuperJ]

That depends upon what you're trying to achieve. If the fire is down to coaling stage and the cat is still active but heading towards inactive, it's often better to turn it down further. This helps maintain an active cat for more hours by reducing the cooling effect of excessive intake air. Any coals remaining unburnt (which have been very minimal in my experience) can be raked forward before the next fire.

Yes, letting the thermostat open on it's own as the fire cools can consume all of the coals but it causes the cat to go inactive at a earlier stage of the burn cycle.

I guess it's if it's heading towards inactive (within 1/4" to 1/2), but it still looks like there are some chunks that should be able to coal for a while yet. I'm just looking to fully consume the fuel. If I turn it down too far it seems to die before everything is consumed. A related question is do you actively tend the fire at all, as in rack the coals together and forward, or just let it sit even if the coals are spread a bit?

 

[Ashful]

Does anybody know the serial number range for the ash pan mod for the Ashford? I make a mess every time I try and use it. I’m wondering if it’s just me or if mine needs the mod.

If the rear edge of the ash plug is right atop the rear edge of the pan (literally colinear), then you got one of the few that would need the mod. Again, I got the impression this issue was caugh pretty quick, so there shouldn't be that many out there.

Even with the mod, the plug is not centered over the pan, it's skewed a little to the rear. And even if it were perfectly centered, there's still the likelihood of mess, if you fill the pan to far without withdrawing (think of knifing flour from a measuring cup).

The thermostatic response delay helps prevent "hunting or oscillation". This permits a a higher gain thermostatic element to be used to hold the temperature setting to tighter limits. It is a well planned and executed proportional controller.

Exactly. Standard control theory stuff. The thermostat would need a time constant longer than the mechanism driving it.

If you like simple, like the thermostat. As a system, it is both simpler and vastly more reliable than one or three air controls with a human operator on the other end.

Simple in appearance, but you'd be surprised at how frustratingly complex it can be to dial in a mechanical closed-loop control system, like this. I'm sure their first (... and even seventh) attempt at this didn't work nearly so well.

 

[WoodyIsGoody]

I guess it's if it's heading towards inactive (within 1/4" to 1/2), but it still looks like there are some chunks that should be able to coal for a while yet. I'm just looking to fully consume the fuel. If I turn it down too far it seems to die before everything is consumed.

How many coals are left unburnt with the thermostat fully closed is a function of your particular install (how strong the draft) and the quality of your wood. My draft is probably about normal and my wood is pretty dry. So I only have a few small "orphans" scattered about the ash bed.

A related question is do you actively tend the fire at all, as in rack the coals together and forward, or just let it sit even if the coals are spread a bit?

If I'm not re-loading, after the bed is pure, hot coals, sometimes I'll rake them forward into a mound three or four inches back from the front lip. Don't forget to open the bypass beforehand and re-close it after. Then I'll open the thermostat so the butterfly is about 1/3 open to build some heat for a couple of minutes before turning it to minimum and letting it finish off.

 

[Ashful]

Not bashing tube stoves BUT I feel much safer about leaving my throttle wide open on the BK than I ever did just running a tube stove at the same exact draft setting night after night.

I can guarantee you I had, and slept through, an overfired tube stove on more than one occasion. The scenario was always the same, set the intake air setting to its normal near closed position, go to bed, outside temps plummet, draft strengthens, stove goes nuclear.

Sometimes the sound of the stove pinging woke me up, sometimes not. Either way I was glad I followed safe install instructions!

Yikes! In this house, I'm sleeping damn near 100 yards' walk from one of the stoves. I'd not hear if it grenaded, in the middle of the night, let alone a little pinging.

 

[black smoke signals]

Draft Bk stoves have a max draft when you exceed this (35-60 mph winds) are you still burning and not concerned about over fire? My experience with my insert is I can hear the t-stat when on low burn touch and slap to the closed position surly this has to change the dynamic's. Barometric draft control with masonry fire place don't think I want this YET. Now all of you engineers explain this so I can understand without poetry or thermodynamics. This is all good info but sometimes its over my head LOL

 

[Highbeam]

Draft Bk stoves have a max draft when you exceed this (35-60 mph winds) are you still burning and not concerned about over fire? My experience with my insert is I can hear the t-stat when on low burn touch and slap to the closed position surly this has to change the dynamic's. Barometric draft control with masonry fire place don't think I want this YET. Now all of you engineers explain this so I can understand without poetry or thermodynamics. This is all good info but sometimes its over my head LOL

Meh, wind effects are overrated. 80 mph winds here in the cascade gaps and no noticeable difference in stove/thermostat operation. Cold ambient temperatures have a bigger effect but I find it works in my favor to increase the output slightly when the house needs it.

 

[Sailrmike]

Which a Blaze King model do you have?

Chinook 30.1, sold it recently. All that I'm trying to communicate here is that simply having a thermostat controlled air supply cannot fully protect a stove from damage, even if the user is tightly packing loads and doing all of the maintenance as needed. I think it's a much better practice to monitor stt, set the t-stat just below wot if you need maximum heat.

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[webby3650]

Chinook 30.1, sold it recently. All that I'm trying to communicate here is that simply having a thermostat controlled air supply cannot fully protect a stove from damage, even if the user is tightly packing loads and doing all of the maintenance as needed. I think it's a much better practice to monitor stt, set the t-stat just below wot if you need maximum heat.

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Well, In this instance wide open throttle will not harm the stove. Although, I’ll agree that WOT shouldn’t be needed on a regular basis, but it won’t hurt a BK.

 

[kf6hap]

All of my other stoves had to be watched for 20 minutes before going to bed so you could be certain it was not going to rage out of control. The BK -with enormous effort and cost- has truly solved that problem. When my old stoves did run hot the flue pipe paint would smoke and set off the fire alarm. All of my other stoves ran a flue temps that easily exceeded 1,100F-the smoke point. 700 is the usual max for the BK.

What are your max flue temps?

My 500 Lb Ashford 30.1 does not rapidly swing in temperature. It can't.

If you have to run your stove wide open all the time, you have the wrong stove.

 

[Hardtopseadan]

Seasoned burners sometimes have difficulty believing the thermostatic control actually works when stoves of the past would rage out of control every time you stood up to change the channel.

kf6hap, stood up to change the channel. That tells me you are somewhat older like myself. Have family in your town, I was only there once 1975, neat town back then.

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[WoodyIsGoody]

Chinook 30.1, sold it recently.

Do you mind sharing how much you sold that used Chinook for and how long it took to sell? Just curious what kind of $$ these go for in the used market.

 

[tarzan]

Yikes! In this house, I'm sleeping damn near 100 yards' walk from one of the stoves. I'd not hear if it grenaded, in the middle of the night, let alone a little pinging.

You have a home constructed of stone and a moat full of alligators, I don't think you need to concern yourself with trivial matters such as an overfired wood stove.

 

[Sailrmike]

Do you mind sharing how much you sold that used Chinook for and how long it took to sell? Just curious what kind of $$ these go for in the used market.

I listed the BK on hearth for about a week before getting a serious buyer. He picked it up a week later for $1750. I probably could have held out for 2k, but the guy I sold it to ended up being super nice, so it all worked out well in the end

 

[kf6hap]

Highbeam:
35 minutes of visible smoke (never thick, load char full open) clear at 35 minutes when I turned it down. I think the load char makes more particulates than the cat can convert. Stove was packed full of soft wood. Flue 600 at turndown, cat thermometer at 2:00 o' clock

 

[kennyp2339]

Yikes! In this house, I'm sleeping damn near 100 yards' walk from one of the stoves. I'd not hear if it grenaded, in the middle of the night, let alone a little pinging.

Understood, you prob have a better chance waking the wife up driving the golf cart to the bathroom

 

[WoodyIsGoody]

Understood, you prob have a better chance waking the wife up driving the golf cart to the bathroom

Ashful might be old-fashioned and live in a 17th century stone cave (or is it 16th century?), but he also swings with the times. He has a Segway for midnight bathroom duties !

 

[Tegbert]

Well just ordered the ashford 25. Hopefully it doesn’t take too long to get here. Still need to order the liner and such but it’s on its way to reality.


Lopi Rockport

 

[jetsam]

You have a home constructed of stone and a moat full of alligators, I don't think you need to concern yourself with trivial matters such as an overfired wood stove.

He actually has regular house fires, but all the ectoplasm from the undead stonemasons puts them out before any rocks or alligators can be harmed.

 

[Beldin]

Well today was the day I was suppose to get my ashford 30 installed after a giant fiasco. Instead it was a no show, no call. I took a day off work because because someone had to be here for legal reasons. I give people the benefit of the doubt, so I waited till 1600 hours. I called and got the runaround. So I was going to have a friend install it, but tragedy on that end. I bought the BK from the Axemen in missoula, and I may be stuck with it. I do not want to install it myself. I can and do install stoves, but that is for customers, and the insurance company wants a specialist to sign off on the install. (save my premium from increasing). This whole cancelation on a stove is going to take 10 business days. The Ashford 30 is the only stove I wish to purchase, but it simply isn't possible for my family to buy a blazeking in western montana without lies and hastle. I don't blame BK one bit. They can't control the ineptitude of franchise dealers. So I'm off Saturday to settle for another quad or lopi. Bummer. I've sure enjoyed this site. BKVP offered assistance, and I would like to tip my hat to him, but what can he do? There is only one dealer close enough in south western montana. And I doubt corporate BK would come into conflict with the axemen. It is kinda crazy that a fella can not buy the best stove (in my personal opinion) currently on the market in Montana. Maybe that will be bought out in a few years and revamped. I won't give up.
I did try to find a way to p.m. BKVP, but I'm too stupid to figure it out. I have always been in the trades, and am still trying to figure out computer stuff.

 

[Sailrmike]

Well today was the day I was suppose to get my ashford 30 installed after a giant fiasco. Instead it was a no show, no call. I took a day off work because because someone had to be here for legal reasons. I give people the benefit of the doubt, so I waited till 1600 hours. I called and got the runaround. So I was going to have a friend install it, but tragedy on that end. I bought the BK from the Axemen in missoula, and I may be stuck with it. I do not want to install it myself. I can and do install stoves, but that is for customers, and the insurance company wants a specialist to sign off on the install. (save my premium from increasing). This whole cancelation on a stove is going to take 10 business days. The Ashford 30 is the only stove I wish to purchase, but it simply isn't possible for my family to buy a blazeking in western montana without lies and hastle. I don't blame BK one bit. They can't control the ineptitude of franchise dealers. So I'm off Saturday to settle for another quad or lopi. Bummer. I've sure enjoyed this site. BKVP offered assistance, and I would like to tip my hat to him, but what can he do? There is only one dealer close enough in south western montana. And I doubt corporate BK would come into conflict with the axemen. It is kinda crazy that a fella can not buy the best stove (in my personal opinion) currently on the market in Montana. Maybe that will be bought out in a few years and revamped. I won't give up.
I did try to find a way to p.m. BKVP, but I'm too stupid to figure it out. I have always been in the trades, and am still trying to figure out computer stuff.

My apologies, massive bummer. I've had good success with hiring reputable sweeps to do install work.