2016-17 Blaze King Performance Thread (Everything BK)

[moresnow]

First burn was 7.5hrs with the fans. This reflects active cat until inactive cat. I had done this before naturally. However, todays load went in at 11F. It is now 14F. 2.5 hrs into the burn. 435 STT. 190 single wall. House temp has maintained 70F. We shall see.... Remember this is the small stove as well. Not crammed full either. 5 small pine splits and 1, 3" elm round. Pine is 16%, dead elm that barely registers any moisture. First burn with fans also left far less ash? Dunno.
I have exactly 2, 4x8 sheets of drywall with insulation behind them. Entire remainder of house has zero insulation, besides 1/2" or 3/4" exterior foam sheeting under the new siding. Yes, I have bought my fair share of LP in my lifetime. Can't wait to insulate the remainder of the house. Stove should be just right at that point. All fun!

Second burn on a moderately sized load went 6.5hrs easy. Had to reload due to leaving the house for a few hours.
Third load was full of my good overnight stuff. 11 hrs with good coals left. Cat was just below active. STT was still 250F+. House had dropped to 64F. I can deal with this. Pleased.

 

[Highbeam]

that wood use in the nc30 seems excessive, unless it somehow runs way less efficiently than my 3.0cf summit.

To be fair, not unlike Marshy, I'm running the NC30 at full output. 700-750 degrees in a large, cold, heat sink of a shop and I have a large blower installed with convection deck to strip heat which might allow a higher burn rate than other NC30 users. Efficiency isn't really the right word, all non-cats suck at efficiency, I am trying to run the stove as hard as safely possible without melting it. I have to refill the stove every three hours or less. Coals start to build up so after two or three of these reloads I can only fit a single row of splits across the top.

 

[Highbeam]

Folks. I want to replace my BK numberless cat probe meter with a new condar meter with numbers!

http://www.condar.com/Catalytic_Thermometers.html

Which exact meter choice fits the BK princess? My BK dial is 2" but due to a manufacturing error has to be upside down to fit so I might be willing to try the 1.5" dial version from condar but what about probe length? Also, can I cut the probe?

So for those of you that ordered a condar replacement for the BK meter, which one did you pick?

Thanks!

Oh, the reason, I question the accuracy of my five year old meter that I've had to rezero a few times plus I love numbers.

 

[Woody Stover]

Does this really mean the peak maximum heat output is 38,000 but/hr? This seems low to me.

The side sheilds and convection deck significantly reduce the radiative heating of the stove. Take a second look at the photos. The shields temperature is about 200-250F while the stove behind it range from 6-800F! Just a guess but there's probably 5 sqft of sheilds that is not letting that heat out where as my old stove doesn't have any shields. That's a significant amount of heat that is being blocked.

Blocked? Where's the heat going? Up the flue?

Yes, several owners have commented that they don't think the BKs put out a lot of heat compared to other stoves they've had. Several other stoves from 3-3.5 cu.ft. will toss significantly more top end heat, according to the EPA numbers. I take those numbers with a grain of salt sometimes, but they have reflected what I've seen on the particular stoves I've run. I have a theory...
One difference between the BKs and some other stoves is the shielding. First, it appears that the BK blower system only pulls heat off the back, and part of the top. The side shields look to be passive only, no air is being blown past them. Compare that to the Buck 91 I had, which is EPA-rated at 50,000+ BTU/hr. The blower air is circulated past the back, the sides, and the full length of the top. Add to this the fact that the BK has an additional set of shields inside the fire box, preventing radiant heat from hitting the fire box walls. This is great if what you want is a long burn, since heat is retained in the fire box, enabling the cat to stay lit at very low burn rates. But when you open up the air for more heat, yes webby, more of the additional heat will exit the flue due to the low rate of heat transfer from the stove to the room.
That said, Marshy, you really need to install the blower to get the most heat you can off the stove, since radiation is relatively low as you have seen.

 

[Marshy]

My wife called me at work and said a big box arrived with my name on it. They will be on this evening.

 

[lsucet]

The blower air is circulated past the back, the sides, and the full length of the top. Add to this the fact that the BK has an additional set of shields inside the fire box, preventing radiant heat from hitting the fire box walls. This is great if what you want is a long burn, since heat is retained in the fire box, enabling the cat to stay lit at very low burn rates. But when you open up the air for more heat, yes webby, more of the additional heat will exit the flue due to the low rate of heat transfer from the stove to the room.

Not 100% accuracy on that statement. Most EPA stoves without side shields still have those bricks inside covering in some cases more than 3/4 of the internal length of side and rear wall. At that point the shield inside the BK covers way less area than those bricks in other stoves. My tube stoves have those and they also have side shields. Side shields are covering just the rear half of the sides, and when the stoves were running stove top at 700 df i still able to put my hand on the rear half of the stove were the shields are installed. the front half were hot, never like the top but, yes, they were hot. the shields in front has vents redirecting the heat to the front into the living space.
Of Course more heat goes up the chimney if you run any stove on high but compare to the BK, at least in my case, nothing compare to the tube stoves if i want to run them on high. Including when secondary burn start taking off regardless the air settings. the flue GOT HOT, HOTTER THAN WITH BK.
The double wall use to be super hot over two layers. The side shields inside the BK never will stop radiation like those bricks. They are just partially covering the sides.

 

[Highbeam]

Most EPA stoves without side shields still have those bricks inside covering in some cases more than 3/4 of the internal length of side and rear wall. At that point the shield inside the BK covers way less area than those bricks in other stoves.

Good point. On those internal metal shields. Whether BK uses bricks or metal shields, the result is the same. An insulated firebox like almost every other modern stove. The soapstone stoves use an insulated firebox too, double wall stone on your woodstocks to insulate the firebox. Hearthstone used 1.25" thick slab sides which offer high insulative value.

I'm guessing the reason that BK switched to the thinner metal shields (which should be less insulative than firebrick) inside the firebox above the first row of bricks is because the sides of the BK stoves slope inward and the traditional bricks might fall out easily. Most modern stoves have bricks covering the entire firebox.

The outside heat shields on the sides are vented top and bottom to create a convection loop which will "pump" out the hot air from that gap. For maximum heat output I would be willing to try bare sides with no shields but with a fan blowing on the sides. My princess ultra side shields are removable if I ever felt like testing it out. Are the king side shields removable too?

 

[showrguy]

Yep..

 

[webby3650]

Good point. On those internal metal shields. Whether BK uses bricks or metal shields, the result is the same. An insulated firebox like almost every other modern stove. The soapstone stoves use an insulated firebox too, double wall stone on your woodstocks to insulate the firebox. Hearthstone used 1.25" thick slab sides which offer high insulative value.

I'm guessing the reason that BK switched to the thinner metal shields (which should be less insulative than firebrick) inside the firebox above the first row of bricks is because the sides of the BK stoves slope inward and the traditional bricks might fall out easily. Most modern stoves have bricks covering the entire firebox.

The outside heat shields on the sides are vented top and bottom to create a convection loop which will "pump" out the hot air from that gap. For maximum heat output I would be willing to try bare sides with no shields but with a fan blowing on the sides. My princess ultra side shields are removable if I ever felt like testing it out. Are the king side shields removable too?

Yes, but you lose the little bracket that holds the air control. It will just look a little unfinished is all.

 

[Tar12]

Folks. I want to replace my BK numberless cat probe meter with a new condar meter with numbers!

http://www.condar.com/Catalytic_Thermometers.html

Which exact meter choice fits the BK princess? My BK dial is 2" but due to a manufacturing error has to be upside down to fit so I might be willing to try the 1.5" dial version from condar but what about probe length? Also, can I cut the probe?

So for those of you that ordered a condar replacement for the BK meter, which one did you pick?

Thanks!

Oh, the reason, I question the accuracy of my five year old meter that I've had to rezero a few times plus I love numbers.

I just ordered one from Condar and went with the 2 in dial face x 2 in length probe.

 

[Marshy]

They can be removed on the king but not easily. They are not supposed to be removed according to BK. To them it would be the equivalent to tampering with your cars emission equipment. Take my 84 Chevy K10 for example. Everyone guts the emission crap on them to get more power but GM would advise you to NOT do such a thing.

 

[Highbeam]

I just ordered one from Condar and went with the 2 in dial face x 2 in length probe.

So do you yet know if the cat meter needle clears the convection deck? The 1.5" dial would probably be small enough to eliminate the conflict for those of us with that problem.

Wait, a 2" dial and 2" probe is not an option. Do they take special custom orders?

 

[Highbeam]

They can be removed on the king but not easily. They are not supposed to be removed according to BK. To them it would be the equivalent to tampering with your cars emission equipment. Take my 84 Chevy K10 for example. Everyone guts the emission crap on them to get more power but GM would advise you to NOT do such a thing.

Also that thermostat dial face would be gone along with support for the dial end of the rod as @webby3650 points out. I suppose in your case you could just spin it to max setting and cut the rod off!

 

[Tocramed]

Folks. I want to replace my BK numberless cat probe meter with a new condar meter with numbers!

http://www.condar.com/Catalytic_Thermometers.html

Which exact meter choice fits the BK princess? My BK dial is 2" but due to a manufacturing error has to be upside down to fit so I might be willing to try the 1.5" dial version from condar but what about probe length? Also, can I cut the probe?

So for those of you that ordered a condar replacement for the BK meter, which one did you pick?

Thanks!

Oh, the reason, I question the accuracy of my five year old meter that I've had to rezero a few times plus I love numbers.

I have the Princess insert, so mine may be different, but I ordered the 2.25" or 2.5" (depending on where you see it listed online - just probe vs total length) and it is an exact match in length. The dial or plate with the printing on it is small though.

 

[Tar12]

Highbeam...my cat probe has a 2in dial face and the probe length is 2in.I called condar today and told them what I had and they said yes we have that. I hope they send the right one...lol

 

[Woody Stover]

Most EPA stoves without side shields still have those bricks inside covering in some cases more than 3/4 of the internal length of side and rear wall. At that point the shield inside the BK covers way less area than those bricks in other stoves. My tube stoves have those and they also have side shields. Side shields are covering just the rear half of the sides

That's true with non-cats, with the high heat coming off the tubes, but I'm comparing the BK to other large cat stoves that are pumping out 52,000, like the Buck 91 and Kuma Sequoia.
The Buck has 4.5 x 9" bricks on end around the bottom of the fire box. Radiation can hit the upper sides of the box, and sections of the top that aren't covered by the cat heat shield. Haven't seen the inside of the Sequoia box...


Looks like most of the walls are covered in this King, and those tall walls above the brick would pick up a massive amount of radiation.
Marshy, how about ripping those shields out and reporting back with the results?

The soapstone stoves use an insulated firebox too, double wall stone on your woodstocks to insulate the firebox.

Yet somehow the PH is rated at 73200, with no blower. Some of that has to be the tubes of the hybrid system. It would be interesting to know how the EPA actually measures these outputs. I might have to search around for that info. There's a bit of info at the bottom of this page on chimneysweep. (broken link removed)

The 1.5" dial would probably be small enough to eliminate the conflict for those of us with that problem.

Why not just compare the one you have to a pic of the Condar 2" dial, and transfer the numbers over? I bet it is the same probe, other than the face markings...

 

[Tar12]

Folks. I want to replace my BK numberless cat probe meter with a new condar meter with numbers!

http://www.condar.com/Catalytic_Thermometers.html

Which exact meter choice fits the BK princess? My BK dial is 2" but due to a manufacturing error has to be upside down to fit so I might be willing to try the 1.5" dial version from condar but what about probe length? Also, can I cut the probe?

So for those of you that ordered a condar replacement for the BK meter, which one did you pick?

Thanks!

Oh, the reason, I question the accuracy of my five year old meter that I've had to rezero a few times plus I love numbers.

How do you recalibrate?

 

[Tocramed]

Interesting. The Condar probe is the same length as the old BK probe, but the new BK probe is shorter.

In the bottom picture:
Left, old BK probe
Middle, new BK probe
Right, Condar probe

Some variation in the stone, but this shows it fairly well. Again, this is for an insert, but I just messured the old BK probe and it is exactly 2.25" to the aluminum washer.

 

[Highbeam]

How do you recalibrate?

It's in the manual, but basically you just hold the probe, loosen the top hex nut, turn the dial, and retighten the nut. There are a few nuts in the stack and the spring is coiled up in there. All this does is set the 0 point, which also sets the active/inactive line.

BK tells me that the probe is 1-7/8" long so I ordered the 1.75" long probe with a 2" dial. No cutting of the probe is allowed.

 

[Highbeam]

Why not just compare the one you to a pic of the Condar 2" dial, and transfer the numbers over? I bet it is the same probe, other than the face markings...

I'm not willing to assume that the aftermarket and OEM probe meters are the same. We don't know that. More importantly, I'm not confident in my OEM probe since I have had to rezero it too many times. I want real numbers. I do believe that Condar makes the BK meter to BK's specs.

 

[Marshy]

Once you "zero" it how do you know it's accurate at all?

 

[webby3650]

Interesting. The Condar probe is the same length as the old BK probe, but the new BK probe is shorter.

In the bottom picture:
Left, old BK probe
Middle, new BK probe
Right, Condar probe

Some variation in the stone, but this shows it fairly well. Again, this is for an insert, but I just messured the old BK probe and it is exactly 2.25" to the aluminum washer.

View attachment 192623 View attachment 192624

BK uses several different length probes for the different models. Are you sure you got the correct one?

 

[Highbeam]

Once you "zero" it how do you know it's accurate at all?

The manual tells us how to zero it. It is then accurate. That is how you do it.

 

[BKVP]

Forgive the dirty glass but is it common for only half of the cat to be glowing?
View attachment 192591

Yes

 

[lsucet]

That's true with non-cats, with the high heat coming off the tubes, but I'm comparing the BK to other large cat stoves that are pumping out 52,000, like the Buck 91 and Kuma Sequoia.
The Buck has 4.5 x 9" bricks on end around the bottom of the fire box. Radiation can hit the upper sides of the box, and sections of the top that aren't covered by the cat heat shield. Haven't seen the inside of the Sequoia box...

Ok this is from BK website, Is this is not what more of the people do? filling the stove every few hrs plus tossing couple splits here and there. Now compare to another cat stove, still. No many has the burn time cat or not. what it means to me that they puting lot of those BTU out in a short period of time. We all know that BK tstat has to see a lot with people not feeling all that heat at one time but is not cause is not capable. most of the people that have a BK is for the control and they want just to use enough heat out of the stove to keep the house warm, but if somebody needs all that heat one time deal and load the stove every few hrs then, yes it is the wrong stove. At least that is what i learned here in this site from all of you before i made my decision and got the BK.

The facts on BTU.
There are only two rating methods that mean something to you, the consumer:

1
The first is the BTU output that is achieved during EPA testing. This testing is quite complicated and costly milled woods are burned. This is a standard for all manufacturer testing and is not intended to provide consumers with a model for how a stove will burn in their home.

2
The second method is what Blaze King refers to as the "Real World" method. These BTUs are achieved during in house testing using the same thing a consumer burns, split, dry cordwood. In our tests, we use fir. The "Real World" BTUs listed are what the average consumer can expect to achieve, with slight variations depending upon geographical location, type of wood, elevation and amount of fuel added. Higher BTUs are possible. If you were to stand in front of your stove and frequently add fuel, burn the unit on high and have optimal conditions, the PE1006 could produce as high as 87,850 BTUs and the KE1107 could exceed 90,000 BTUs!

However, maximum BTUs would only be achievable at a certain "peak" during the burn.

Blaze King does not wish to mislead you, so we give you all the facts.