2016-17 Blaze King Performance Thread (Everything BK)

[Marshy]

No doubt! See what that baby will do! The only difference you will see though may be imagined. The heat isn't being magically removed from your home. It may just be relative, warmer next to stove with your old one, now the whole house is warmer. But less radiant, more convective. Who knows, the heat isn't disappearing into thin air though.

Your right, it's just not making it out of the stove with them on. No magic about it, it's not being transfered. Air makes a great insulator.

 

[lsucet]

The way it was explained to me by Chris was that the shields serve two purposes. First, they insulate the firebox to help maintain a high temperature combustion chamber to promote combustion efficiency. Second, they decrease the clearance to combustibles. In BK's eyes they are not to be removed.

Honestly I'm not surprised they would tell you not to remove them. If my warantee was no longer valid I would entertain that thought (not before I try the BK fans though). There are gaps in the tops of the shield to allow air flow up between them but the fans do not circulate air under them. Only the convection deck is purposely constructed to increase the convective transfer by blowing air between it and the stove top. Here's a closer look at the sheilds.

I understand by air blowing on top create a draft and it will pull into the living area that heat from the sides. it is just a simple characteristic of anything moving in one direction.

 

[Marshy]

It wouldn't be imagined. It very well could be significant, and believe it is. Radiation will travel unobstructed by the air and can heat the surface of an object on the other side of the room. It will heat of the walls of the basement and the brick actually can act like thermal storage even though it's uninsulated. It will heat my floors above the stove and make them feel like I have in floor hesting. That's not imaginary, I've experienced it with the old stove and it doesn't happen to the same degree as with the new stove.

 

[Marshy]

Forgive the dirty glass but is it common for only half of the cat to be glowing?

 

[lsucet]

It wouldn't be imagined. It very well could be significant. Radiation will travel unobstructed by the air and can heat the surface of an object on the other side of the room. It will heat of the walls of the basement and the brick actually can act like thermal storage even though it's uninsulated. It will heal my floors above the stove and make them feel like I have in floor hesting. That's not imaginary, I've experienced it with the old stove and it doesn't happen to the same degree as with the new stove.

That's why i told you, you need to get used to the way this stove works. I went thru the same like you i already told you but i start looking to the surrounding in the house then i noticed and start understanding the benefits and how this stove works. My house in town is on NG furnace and i keep the wall tstat at 70 df, and we feel comfortable. I know it is a different scenario but the point is that when we are at the ranch the temp is way higher that what we are used to it.

When i realized was no point for me keeping those high temp for no reason and the control of the BK help me a lot with that. The ranch house, 85% of it is above the ground. It is an old house but the flooring is good. I installed tile for the hearth on membrane. the other stoves i was using before are only rated to spark and ambers.
My hearth used to get super hot and i don't think that is good for the flooring, maybe i am wrong. with BK i don't have that problem at all and the hearth is just little more than room temperature. that is one of the advantage that i notice and i love, beside other mentioned before.

you are used to feel that big/high temp for fist few hrs after reload maybe and you are not feeling that right now and everything looks like it is bad. I know only you can see the differences but look in general fist if you are gaining something with the change or not. I also know that what works for some don't works for others.

 

[Highbeam]

BK states that the firebox holds something like 703,xxx BTUs. Multiply that by the efficiency (82% I believe) and then divide that by 12 hours and you will get the average BTU/hr over a 12 he cycle. It comes out to be the 52,xxx btu/hr rating for the LHV (IIRC).

Keep in mind, heat is constantly being transfered from the hottest object to the coldest. The stove to the house via radiation and convection and from the house to the outside environment. The rate at which the transfer happens is the key. If and object had more surface area and temperature then it will have a higher heat transfer rate. That is why those shields make such a significant impact on heat transfer rate.

Excuse me, I need to bring in some wood.

Whether you have heat shields on the sides or not, every bit of that 52xxx btu per hour that you calculate is coming out of the stove and into your home. The energy is conserved, it doesn't disappear.

Blaze king made a monster furnace in the US until last year. It was called the apex and was a cat stove with a 7" flue and high efficiency. I recall it might have been 6 c.f.?

 

[Highbeam]

Forgive the dirty glass but is it common for only half of the cat to be glowing?
View attachment 192591

Yes, very common. Sometimes symmetrically and sometimes not.

 

[lsucet]

Forgive the dirty glass but is it common for only half of the cat to be glowing?
View attachment 192591

it is normal, the wood in that side can be gassing more than the other side. nothing wrong

 

[Niko]

Forgive the dirty glass but is it common for only half of the cat to be glowing?
View attachment 192591

What do you mean by dirty glass? If your running your stove at max like your saying you do, your glass shouldnt get dirty unless your throwing in some really wet wood.

 

[Marshy]

That's why i told you, you need to get used to the way this stove works. I went thru the same like you i already told you but i start looking to the surrounding in the house then i noticed and start understanding the benefits and how this stove works. My house in town is on NG furnace and i keep the wall tstat at 70 df, and we feel comfortable. I know it is a different scenario but the point is that when we are at the ranch the temp is way higher that what we are used to it.

When i realized was no point for me keeping those high temp for no reason and the control of the BK help me a lot with that. The ranch house, 85% of it is above the ground. It is an old house but the flooring is good. I installed tile for the hearth on membrane. the other stoves i was using before are only rated to spark and ambers.
My hearth used to get super hot and i don't think that is good for the flooring, maybe i am wrong. with BK i don't have that problem at all and the hearth is just little more than room temperature. that is one of the advantage that i notice and i love, beside other mentioned before.

you are used to feel that big/high temp for fist few hrs after reload maybe and you are not feeling that right now and everything looks like it is bad. I know only you can see the differences but look in general fist if you are gaining something with the change or not. I also know that what works for some don't works for others.

I understand what you are saying. I plan to make some changes. Yes, I am use to a different kind of heat from the old stove. At the same time it also produced more heat, that's all there is to it.
First thing on my list is to frame 2 large insulation panels and install them in the garage door frame on the outside to get that buttoned up. Next is to install the BK fans. More insulation on the SIL plate and outer floor joist would be next.

If the creosote buildup becomes a bigger issue then the stove might not stay. The creosote buildup is going to be affected by how cold it gets though the winter.

 

[Marshy]

What do you mean by dirty glass? If your running your stove at max like your saying you do, your glass shouldnt get dirty unless your throwing in some really wet wood.

It's just white ash on the glass.

 

[Ashful]

Just imaging how it would be without them.

Worse. In fact, reading your woes, I had been meaning to ask if you had the convection deck and side shields. Read my (long) post this morning about losing most of the heat coming off my stove, via radiation into exterior stone work. If I recall correctly, your install is an un-insulated basement, the worst possible place to install a wood stove. At least a convective design might put some reasonable fraction of the heat into the air, rather than pumping it into your basement walls and floor.

Wood stoves are not mysterious or magic. They are boxes that hold a fixed amount of fuel, and release it at the rate of your choosing. The King holds 4 cubic feet of fuel, and can release it in approximately 8 to 40 hours. It puts less of that released energy up the chimney than your old stove ever did, the rest being conveyed to your house via one of two primary mechanisms (radiation or convection). So, that in mind, what do you think is your reasoning, behind the King not heating your home as well as the old stove? Were you ripping thru 4 cubic foot loads in 4 hours with the old stove, or is there something else amiss?

 

[YAGER85]

Can anyone shed some light on the Steel Combustors versus the regular ceramic ones? What does BK have to say about the steel ones? Where is the best place to purchase them?

 

[volunbeer]

I too am curious about the "which cat is right for me" and I have searched with little success. I am wondering if the steel or ceramic cat would be better for long low burns. I realize that they function the same way, but it seems like there would be some kind of consistent traits in performance under certain conditions.

The ability of a material to retain heat depends on its density. Steel would be more dense and therefore one would assume that the steel cat would stay hotter longer. This might mean that a steel cat would perform better during a long burn, but it would also mean that the coatings on the steel cat would likely be subjected to increased heat stress therefore shortening the expected lifespan?

 

[Tar12]

It would be nice if the side shields were hinged...allowing you to open them on bitter cold nights when you want to push the stove..

 

[kf6hap]

(broken link removed to http://www.woodstovecombustors.com/steel_advantages.html)

Ceramic cats work fine too but are a little more fragile in that you don't want to thermally shock them. Just let them cool a few minutes before opening the door and don't load up with wet wood.

From my reading, lifespan is the same.

Bottom line: the steelcat "lights off" more quickly but both are excellent. The steelcat is somewhat more costly but due to the quick light off, I prefer steel. Frequently, have a glowing red cat in <15 minutes from a dead cold start.

 

[jetsam]

Summary of previous threads: Steelcat lights off faster. Ceramic holds heat better. Steel not susceptible to thermal shock, which often crumbles ceramics. BK recommends ceramic but used to ship stoves with steel. Many people happy with both. If you get a steel cat, avoid dieselfoil.

 

[YAGER85]

Summary of previous threads: Steelcat lights off faster. Ceramic holds heat better. Steel not susceptible to thermal shock, which often crumbles ceramics. BK recommends ceramic but used to ship stoves with steel. Many people happy with both. If you get a steel cat, avoid dieselfoil.

What is diesel foil?

 

[Marshy]

Worse. In fact, reading your woes, I had been meaning to ask if you had the convection deck and side shields. Read my (long) post this morning about losing most of the heat coming off my stove, via radiation into exterior stone work. If I recall correctly, your install is an un-insulated basement, the worst possible place to install a wood stove. At least a convective design might put some reasonable fraction of the heat into the air, rather than pumping it into your basement walls and floor.

Wood stoves are not mysterious or magic. They are boxes that hold a fixed amount of fuel, and release it at the rate of your choosing. The King holds 4 cubic feet of fuel, and can release it in approximately 8 to 40 hours. It puts less of that released energy up the chimney than your old stove ever did, the rest being conveyed to your house via one of two primary mechanisms (radiation or convection). So, that in mind, what do you think is your reasoning, behind the King not heating your home as well as the old stove? Were you ripping thru 4 cubic foot loads in 4 hours with the old stove, or is there something else amiss?

I want to clarify your statement in bold first because I feel its too subjective and also it will touch on the other points in your reply. I feel there are 2 main considerations when you consider a wood stove to heat "well". 1) Does it put enough heat into the area you are trying to heat, and 2) is the burn cycle (length of burn) reasonable. A third might be maintenance like, is it easy to empty the ash and does it burn clean (ie. no creosote).

In my opinion and in the first case I feel the King is struggling because my house on average is 5F degrees cooler and the house cools off more at the end of the burn cycle as I have to wait for coals to burn down in some cases. Occasionally I had to wait for my old stove to digest the coals but it would do it a lot faster and hotter as it had a cast iron grate in the bottom of the firebox which air was fed directly to the fire/coals like in a coal stove.

In the second case, the King takes the cake. I can fuel it full and at about 8-9 hours its reduced to a health bead of coals which just takes a stir to refuel the stove (load it and walk away). In the worst parts of the winter I would have to refuel my old stove every 4 hours. Mild days I could get 6 hours out of it with enough coals to stir, load and walk away.

So what I'm saying is while a short reloading frequency of 4 hours is a nuisance its not nearly as large of a nuisance as not being able to heat my home to the same temperature. So in that perspective the King is not performing "as well".

That may change once I get the BK fans (I hope). I want to run the stove with the fans to see if there is an improvement in the heating before I close up the garage door, which I will do regardless but want to be objective about how much of a potential improvement they make. I believe I will have those fans tomorrow and I will be making the insulated panels for the garage door this weekend.

 

[Highbeam]

Worse. In fact, reading your woes, I had been meaning to ask if you had the convection deck and side shields. Read my (long) post this morning about losing most of the heat coming off my stove, via radiation into exterior stone work. If I recall correctly, your install is an un-insulated basement, the worst possible place to install a wood stove. At least a convective design might put some reasonable fraction of the heat into the air, rather than pumping it into your basement walls and floor.

Wood stoves are not mysterious or magic. They are boxes that hold a fixed amount of fuel, and release it at the rate of your choosing. The King holds 4 cubic feet of fuel, and can release it in approximately 8 to 40 hours. It puts less of that released energy up the chimney than your old stove ever did, the rest being conveyed to your house via one of two primary mechanisms (radiation or convection). So, that in mind, what do you think is your reasoning, behind the King not heating your home as well as the old stove? Were you ripping thru 4 cubic foot loads in 4 hours with the old stove, or is there something else amiss?

One other factor is that the BK will not overfire. It will close the draft down to hold that safe max even if the operator wants it to glow cherry red. Marshy is bouncing off of the rev limiter here all the time since running at max stat setting. Fans would cool the box and allow a higher burn rate.

Regardless, if the whole 4 CF of wood is gone in 8 hours it delivered that heat to the space. I bet the old stove didn't last 8 hours on a load. Heck, I can burn through 3.5 CF in my NC30 in three hours with normal stove top temps.

Exposed masonry basement, overhead door, 3600 SF, I would not have recommended any woodstove for primary heat. I am jealous of the basement though.

 

[Squisher]

that wood use in the nc30 seems excessive, unless it somehow runs way less efficiently than my 3.0cf summit. But regardless, myself I'm still curious to know what the king kings max btu output is? Being that it's governed to prevent overfire, I would think it's max output must be known. I don't mean at a 12hr burn or what not. As short of burn as possible, basically at max that it will allow itself to run, what is the btu output?

 

[moresnow]

Fans finally showed up yesterday. I was sent the large stove fans mistakenly to begin with. It has been a interesting wait. My burn time, heat output etc. had been somewhat disappointing when outside temps were below 20 F roughly. I did not install the fans yesterday as I was busy elsewhere.
I woke up at 2 AM this morning and could not stop thinking about how the stove would perform with the fans installed. Um. Fans installed by 2:30AM! Mine were very tight fitting at the top. Had to get a bit aggressive with them to finish the install. My wife now knows that instead of thinking I was crazy. I proved it. What on earth are you doing in the middle of the night? Um.
Sooo. I can say that the fans have made a dramatic difference getting the heat dispersed. I had a inkling I was not taking full advantage of the heat being produced before the fan install. Very pleased and relieved.
On another note. While waiting for the fan kit to arrive I had been running a standard box fan pointed at he side/back corner of the stove since I installed it. I must of set it to close as it seems that the box fan had been interfering with the thermostat. Before the fan kit install I had experienced strange mood/temp swings on my external pipe temps. flame/no flame control. Etc. After getting rid of the box fan (which was absolutely required to circ. heat before) my stove has settled down completely. I can only guess that the box fan was goofing up my intake air control. Also. Before installing a new fan kit I would strongly recommend plugging them in and running them to assure the fan blades have no interference as delivered. I had to remove one fan (that I had fought to install naturally) and take the fan guard off to relocate the fan speed control box a smidge. Otherwise the fan was very loud as the blades struck the control box (approximately 2:15 AM)

 

[Marshy]

One other factor is that the BK will not overfire. It will close the draft down to hold that safe max even if the operator wants it to glow cherry red. Marshy is bouncing off of the rev limiter here all the time since running at max stat setting. Fans would cool the box and allow a higher burn rate.

Regardless, if the whole 4 CF of wood is gone in 8 hours it delivered that heat to the space. I bet the old stove didn't last 8 hours on a load. Heck, I can burn through 3.5 CF in my NC30 in three hours with normal stove top temps.

Exposed masonry basement, overhead door, 3600 SF, I would not have recommended any woodstove for primary heat. I am jealous of the basement though.

That's exactly what I was thinking. The t-sat air controller is affected by the metal temperature of the firebox. Take heat off of the firebox with the fans and the thermostat will open more at the same set point to bring the metal temperature back up. Fans increase the heat transfer rate.

 

[Marshy]

Fans finally showed up yesterday. I was sent the large stove fans mistakenly to begin with. It has been a interesting wait. My burn time, heat output etc. had been somewhat disappointing when outside temps were below 20 F roughly. I did not install the fans yesterday as I was busy elsewhere.
I woke up at 2 AM this morning and could not stop thinking about how the stove would perform with the fans installed. Um. Fans installed by 2:30AM! Mine were very tight fitting at the top. Had to get a bit aggressive with them to finish the install. My wife now knows that instead of thinking I was crazy. I proved it. What on earth are you doing in the middle of the night? Um.
Sooo. I can say that the fans have made a dramatic difference getting the heat dispersed. I had a inkling I was not taking full advantage of the heat being produced before the fan install. Very pleased and relieved.
On another note. While waiting for the fan kit to arrive I had been running a standard box fan pointed at he side/back corner of the stove since I installed it. I must of set it to close as it seems that the box fan had been interfering with the thermostat. Before the fan kit install I had experienced strange mood/temp swings on my external pipe temps. flame/no flame control. Etc. After getting rid of the box fan (which was absolutely required to circ. heat before) my stove has settled down completely. I can only guess that the box fan was goofing up my intake air control. Also. Before installing a new fan kit I would strongly recommend plugging them in and running them to assure the fan blades have no interference as delivered. I had to remove one fan (that I had fought to install naturally) and take the fan guard off to relocate the fan speed control box a smidge. Otherwise the fan was very loud as the blades struck the control box (approximately 2:15 AM)

Excellent! Thanks for sharing. Please let me know how the burn times are affected.

 

[kennyp2339]

as the blades struck the control box (approximately 2:15 AM)

I've been know to do some of my best work at that time of day.