2014-2015 Blaze King Performance thread (Everything BK)

[Parallax]

Well, I'm going to try loading what I got and will report back on what happens. Will let it burn full open until I have to leave for work and then throttle down. Wish me luck.

 

[Parallax]

An hour later, I'm writing to say "so far so good." The wood took longer to catch. But once it caught, it began burning nicely. I ran it with the cat disengaged for a bit longer. Now I've got it on high with the cat inline. Getting just a bit of smoke, less probably than with the wood I had been using. And that smoke seems less bluish, so possibly more moisture. I've not yet determined how things will run once I throttle back or how much heat it will put out like this. Will update.

 

[tarzan]

Parallax, have your smoke issues been resolved? Do you still suspect draft?

Did you check a few splits with the MM before loading?

 

[rdust]

I've run out of my 15% wood. The stuff in my woodshed, with a fresh split, shows a moisture content of 24.5%. Is that too green to burn in the Ashford? If not, should I run it hotter to prevent creosote buildup? Or do I need to go out and buy duralogs or something of that nature?

Anything less than 25% on the meter will be fine. Remember when we talk m/c we're looking at the total moisture content of the split, most people take the highest reading in the center and call that the reading when chances are if it's 25% in the middle it's less towards the ends. There is also wet vs dry moisture content but we won't get into all that.

 

[Highbeam]

An hour later, I'm writing to say "so far so good." The wood took longer to catch. But once it caught, it began burning nicely. I ran it with the cat disengaged for a bit longer. Now I've got it on high with the cat inline. Getting just a bit of smoke, less probably than with the wood I had been using. And that smoke seems less bluish, so possibly more moisture. I've not yet determined how things will run once I throttle back or how much heat it will put out like this. Will update.

The thermostat could play a part in how wet wood burns. The firebox won't heat up as much for a given amount of air being injected so the stat will open further for any one setting. Your wood should burn faster with less output since it is boiling off all that water. It is entirely possible, due to the BK's design, that wood will appear to burn just fine since it is automatically bumping up the intake setting.

I have burned some wettish wood and found that the smoke emissions were quite white even when the cat temp and stove temp was very high. The water seems to pass right on through the cat and recondense into steam along with the smoke as it exits the chimney.

 

[RustyShackleford]

I've got a few comments ...

Dutchwest is NOT an "off brand" product. But it IS an inferior (to BK) one. I had a Dutchwest for about 20 years before I got my BK. If you can afford it, Woody, make the same change.

WTF is WOT ?

When talking about moisture content and thermostat setting, you guys need to remember that neither is being measured very precisely (so talking such specific numbers may be misleading). I say this because it's well-known that the relationship, between electrical resistance (which is how most moisture meters make their measurements) and moisture content, varies with wood species (see the table in (broken link removed) meters with species correction are probably very expensive (certainly not the $30 one I have). As far as thermostat setting, I'm not sure how closely it can be compared among different units - I know that the knob was actually loose on the thermostat shaft when I received mine; perhaps there is a standard for setting the knob position (e.g. "on a cold stove, the flapper should just close at setting '1'") but I have not seen it - if they have a procedure in the BK factory, it'd be interesting to know.

(broken link removed)

 

[Poindexter]

WTF is WOT ?

Wide Open Throttle, might be other meanings too.

As far as thermostat setting, I'm not sure how closely it can be compared among different units - I know that the knob was actually loose on the thermostat shaft when I received mine; perhaps there is a standard for setting the knob position (e.g. "on a cold stove, the flapper should just close at setting '1'") but I have not seen it - if they have a procedure in the BK factory, it'd be interesting to know.

I am pretty sure on correctly adjusted size 30 stoves, and maybe x the whole product line as the thermostat knob is turned clcokwise - hotter and hotter - a bit past the highest setting the thermostat knob should hit a hard stop as the knob is pointing to six oclock.

I remember adjusting mine while that thread was open, I was able to turn my knob to abolut 7 oclock before I got to the hard stop.

Alsom, flue/chimney height and ambient outdoor temps seem to make enormous differences in stove behavior.

 

[Highbeam]

Dutchwest is NOT an "off brand" product. But it IS an inferior (to BK) one.

It is an "off brand" for this thread which is specific about BKs. The poster was trying to compare their operation.

Further, the term, "off-brand" is not universally defined. It is subjective. Very much an off-brand in my part of the country.

 

[tarzan]

My thermo shuts at what would be near zero (if it had a zero) on a cold stove.

Knob stops at 3 o'clock

Yes, this would explain why I'm running at a lower setting than many.

 

[Highbeam]

My thermo shuts at what would be near zero (if it had a zero) on a cold stove.

Knob stops at 3 o'clock

Yes, this would explain why I'm running at a lower setting than many.

That will mess with your head. So the "normal" zone is totally wrong for you. I get the cold stat clank at 1.

 

[Woody Stover]

I have read that it's not good to cool the cat fast or open the door until the end of a burn cycle.

Iam Suprised at the amount of cracked CAT's.

I think that's sound advice. Even though you've opened the bypass, it doesn't prevent fire box air from going through the cat, unless there was another door that closed the cat opening as the bypass door opened. If I need to open the door while the cat is still active, I open the bypass and then wait a couple minutes for the cat to cool before opening the door. Also, most of what I've read has said to burn in the load before closing the bypass to prevent relatively cool, moist exhaust from hitting the cat. I wonder if the guys that are opening the bypass, opening the door and throwing wood in, closing the door, and closing the bypass all within a minute are the same guys seeing the cracks in their cats? I haven't seen cracks in any of the ceramic cats I've run lately. Right now I've got a steelie in the Dutchwest. I can close the bypass with about 300 on the probe and it will light within 30 sec. I usually wait until 350 or so to get an almost instant light-off; I figure the less smoke I have going through the cat unburned, the less deposits in the cat. Sure, they will burn off when the cat lights but I think the ash may stick, and I'm guessing it won't just blow right out like fly ash from the fire box will. I want keep the cat functioning at the highest level I can before I have to eventually simmer it out in the vinegar/water solution when performance starts dropping off.

shows a moisture content of 24.5%.

My Ashford and my King both handled sub-par wood better than the non-cats I've had. I just leave the bypass open a little longer than normal.

FWIW, the EPA tests are run with 20% wet-basis wood (as rdust alluded to,) which equates to 25% on the meter. Like webby says, cook a fresh load off a bit longer before closing the bypass. You can't cook all the moisture out, but you'll get rid of some...

You must be forgetting one of the items that sets the BK apart from your off-brand products. The thermostat.

"Everything BK," including the fanboy. You're talking about the thermostat they were putting in backwards for a while, right, and almost nobody noticed? Don't get me started...

We set it on high but before anything can melt, the stat is trimming back air. I suspect that part of the safety testing for any stove is full throttle testing to see what happens.

I didn't go back and find it, but I thought guys were saying it was running up to 650 or more WOT. Don't recall if they bailed out and cut the air at that point,and it would've went higher... No problem for a plate-steel stove but probably a little higher than I would run one if (when ) I owned one, without a better reason.

I will admit that during my last full throttle self-clean run there was a lot of blue smoke making it to the chimney cap. The smoke was ripping through the cat so fast that the cat must not have had time to eat it all.

Yep, the cat needs time to eat the smoke, but I think creo smoke may be a different animal. It's already gone through a chemical reaction, cooled and been re-deposited on the walls of the box. It seems to me that when I've had creo burning off in the Keystone, even without the air open real far, the cat still wasn't able to catch it. Sure smelled like creo, not the muted wood-smoke smell you get when the cat's eating regular smoke. I'd have to observe the whole thing more closely to make a better judgement. And different stoves, so YMMV...

Dutchwest is NOT an "off brand" product. But it IS an inferior (to BK) one. I had a Dutchwest for about 20 years before I got my BK. If you can afford it, Woody, make the same change.

No doubt about that. If anyone is curious about the Dw, I'll swap for any 20 or 30, although I'd prefer an Ashford. Just PM me. The cast box on the Dw is kinda thin and the panels are prone to warping...parts ain't cheap either. I got mine used about 15 yrs ago....don't know how it was treated previously. It has held up pretty well. The primary air control is cheesy, hard to dial in exactly what you want when running the stove low. That said, with the gasket replacement and seam sealing I did, I can snuff the cat if I want with this shoulder draft, if I don't burn too much of the load in. In colder weather, I would have to at least improve the primary air "flapper" system for better low-end control, but the stove might still be leaking too much air to be able to snuff the cat. That, I think, is where the thermostat is useful to possibly compensate for changing conditions as the load progresses but I saw a post, in the last few pages I think, where the poster said the 'stat didn't seem to be adjusting quite the way he thought it would...
With no backup heat, I'm glad I have the Dw to stick in there until I can address an air leak on the Keystone. I'll tell ya, I'm about done with these "seam stoves" and will be going to a plate-steel cat stove next. May or may not be a BK... Casting quality on the new Dws may not be as good as what I've got, but as far as I know the Dutchwests are selling for a little north of 1000 bucks. Not sure you can get into a cat stove any cheaper than that. If I guy was to buy one and run it prudently, I think it might serve him well for a long time.

It is an "off brand" for this thread which is specific about BKs.

I hope I don't get banned. There's been a lot of discussion here about stuff that's not specific to BKs and several guys new to cat stove that may benefit. I've asked a couple questions about the BKs but haven't gotten the info I was looking for...

Very much an off-brand in my part of the country.

We can get it all here, from BK to Buck. I guess that's why webby lives here...
Excuse me, I have to go cram the stove full of chunks and uglies.

 

[RustyShackleford]

... Dutchwests are selling for a little north of 1000 bucks. Not sure you can get into a cat stove any cheaper than that. If I guy was to buy one and run it prudently, I think it might serve him well for a long time.

Sure, mine served me pretty well for about 20 years. But, I had to work fairly hard to have enough coals in the AM to be able to just throw some wood in there and relax. With the BK, that's the case the next evening, never mind the next morning.

 

[tarzan]

That will mess with your head. So the "normal" zone is totally wrong for you. I get the cold stat clank at 1.

It will probably bother me now until I adjust it. Until then....

 

[Parallax]

Parallax, have your smoke issues been resolved? Do you still suspect draft?

Did you check a few splits with the MM before loading?

The draft is still a concern. The installer/dealer called yesterday. He wanted to come out but no one was home at the time. We're trying to set up a visit when he's in the area so it's not a separate trip. My home is 45 minutes from his location.

It was late when I pulled the wood from the shed so I just took the largest split, which was something of a monster, and split it again. 24.5% in several places. The smaller splits might be better. Will check when I have time.

When I get home tonight, I'll check the stove performance and post what happened. Could be anything from the cat crashed to an empty box with just coals. Before I left the house, the thermostat was down to 2 and there was no visible smoke coming from the chimney. The stove was humming along with the cat probe running just to the right of noon. Seemed like a perfectly wonderful burn.

 

[Woody Stover]

Sure, mine served me pretty well for about 20 years. But, I had to work fairly hard to have enough coals in the AM to be able to just throw some wood in there and relax. With the BK, that's the case the next evening, never mind the next morning.

This is the first time the little 2460 has been back in for a few years, and with the refurb, I'll have to see if it will hold a long fire in colder weather Just burning a load a day right now but we got several 50/30 days in a row coming now. Could it have been that yours was leaking enough air to really cut into the burn times? From what I've seen, I'm thinking it should be able to go overnight pretty easy on some decent White Ash, Red Oak or Hard Maple, even if it's not dialed way down. Lessee, 12 hrs in a 1.4 useable fire box, times 3 to equal the volume of the King...that's a 36-hr burn...damn near BK-esque.

If BK supplied a numbered cat meter then yes, we would know how hot it is and could verify that the stove is operating within the cat manufacturer's parameters.

The BK probe is just a re-badged Condor, so you should be able to eyeball it with a Condor and have a pretty good idea what the actual temp is. The fly in the ointment is that Condor apparently has recently changed the number display on the face of the probe, so who knows which one is correct? Maybe it was an attempt to compensate for extra temp off the stove that the old temp readout didn't account for?

 

[tarzan]

I've got a few comments ...

Dutchwest is NOT an "off brand" product. But it IS an inferior (to BK) one. I had a Dutchwest for about 20 years before I got my BK. If you can afford it, Woody, make the same change.

WTF is WOT ?

When talking about moisture content and thermostat setting, you guys need to remember that neither is being measured very precisely (so talking such specific numbers may be misleading). I say this because it's well-known that the relationship, between electrical resistance (which is how most moisture meters make their measurements) and moisture content, varies with wood species (see the table in (broken link removed) meters with species correction are probably very expensive (certainly not the $30 one I have). As far as thermostat setting, I'm not sure how closely it can be compared among different units - I know that the knob was actually loose on the thermostat shaft when I received mine; perhaps there is a standard for setting the knob position (e.g. "on a cold stove, the flapper should just close at setting '1'") but I have not seen it - if they have a procedure in the BK factory, it'd be interesting to know.

(broken link removed)

Good read on moisture meters. Just kidding!

The difference in species were in meg ohms so while there were many other variables such as grain twist, temperature of wood, user error, and more. I still think our cheap moisture meter readings are fine for general comparison. The stove is the final go or no go

In fact, I think a cheap moisture meter should come with every new stove sold. It seems that just reading about using only well seasoned wood in the manuals is taken as a suggestion by many. Then these "EPA" stoves get a bad reputation as something to stay away from. Maybe, with m-m in box the point would get through, I dunno.

 

[Woody Stover]

Tried to put this quote in the previous post but it wouldn't work.

something of a monster, and split it again. 24.5% in several places. The smaller splits might be better.

Stands to reason. I think you'll be OK.

 

[Woody Stover]

I still think our cheap moisture meter readings are fine for general comparison

I think the conversion factors for different species are usually only a percent or two, three max, so the cheap meters should give us something that's close enough.

 

[tarzan]

The draft is still a concern. The installer/dealer called yesterday. He wanted to come out but no one was home at the time. We're trying to set up a visit when he's in the area so it's not a separate trip. My home is 45 minutes from his location.

It was late when I pulled the wood from the shed so I just took the largest split, which was something of a monster, and split it again. 24.5% in several places. The smaller splits might be better. Will check when I have time.

When I get home tonight, I'll check the stove performance and post what happened. Could be anything from the cat crashed to an empty box with just coals. Before I left the house, the thermostat was down to 2 and there was no visible smoke coming from the chimney. The stove was humming along with the cat probe running just to the right of noon. Seemed like a perfectly wonderful burn.

Will be interesting. It would seem to me, if you can now burn higher moisture wood with no issues the draft may not be a problem.

Hope she's still humming along when you make it home.

 

[Parallax]

Ok, it's now 7:13 pm. I started the stove around 9:15 am. So we're at ten hours. Haven't touched it since I turned the dial down to 2 and left the house at 10:00 am. It's still active, the cat's at around 10 o'clock on the dial. When I first got home at around 6:00 pm, the dial was at 11 o'clock. So I'm bumping it up to 2.5. As best I can tell, there's still at least one or two splits in the stove. Not bad for Douglas fir. Perhaps it will do even better when the wood is dry.

 

[Woody Stover]

Ok, it's now 7:13 pm. I started the stove around 9:15 am.

Stove temp?

 

[Parallax]

Stove temp?

There's no way to tell. I have the Ashford which is in a shroud. That's why I listed the cat probe temp.

 

[Parallax]

Hey, now this is interesting. I kicked the thermostat up to 2.5 and the wood began to ignite. So I took it back down to 2, where it had been all day. Now it's 9:20 pm, a full 12 hours after I started the burn, and it's humming away just fine. For some reason, kicking it up and then lowing it back down smoothed out the burn when the cat was beginning (after 10 hours) to crash. Looks like the stove could go several more hours without a reload.

It's not going to be a 24 burn this time. But we're still way over 12 hours, even with damp fir.

 

[HotCoals]

Hey, now this is interesting. I kicked the thermostat up to 2.5 and the wood began to ignite. So I took it back down to 2, where it had been all day. Now it's 9:20 pm, a full 12 hours after I started the burn, and it's humming away just fine. For some reason, kicking it up and then lowing it back down smoothed out the burn when the cat was beginning (after 10 hours) to crash. Looks like the stove could go several more hours without a reload.

It's not going to be a 24 burn this time. But we're still way over 12 hours, even with damp fir.

Yep you heated the wood up more and therefore more gas's were released. I have have seen that happen here.
After awhile though you will run out of gas though..lol.

 

[Rossco]

I get confuzzled a little when it comes to the required smoke output vs CAT Activity.

So then, I should throw some of the Western larch bark on there? It is 4" thick and smokes like crazy!?!