Who wants a Hummer?

[SidecarFlip]

Or check the air in the tires regularly (why there are TP monitors now and an idiot light), because the idiot behind the wheel never check the TP....

Said before that living in a plug and play society might work for your computer bit it don't work for anything mechanical (solid fuel stoves included) and certainly not a vehicle because an EV or an ICE powered vehicle, bottom line is they are all mechanical....

Not plug and play by a long shot.

I rest my case...lol

 

[MTASH]

Other than the brakes, I’m just not seeing that, in my own vehicles. ICEs and EVs consume tires at the same rate. Oil and filters are too cheap to even discuss, and nobody actually changes coolant or brake fluid. Most timing belts are at 120k today, often beyond, this ain’t 1990.

Brakes are the one legit maintenance item, which wear much quicker on the ICE. That’s not enough to make up for the four extra trips a family member had to make to the closest Tesla dealer inside of 18 months, for various big fixes and updates.

Me either. If folks are truly spending $600-700 or more on average annual maintenance, they should consider switching to a more reliable brand of vehicle. Our '12 Focus has averaged $150/year (excluding tires). This is for 21 oil changes, some air filters, a battery, one set of plugs, and coolant flush. I've stuck to buying Fords and Toyotas over the years and this has held true. There are good arguments for electric vehicles but annual maintenance is a red herring IMO.

I don't totally agree with the brakes argument either. We have 105,000 miles on our car and I have never touched the brakes, and won't need to if we trade it in the next couple of years. In more rural parts of the country, one can easily get 100K+ on a set of brakes if they don't drive like a maniac.

 

[SidecarFlip]

This fall, I checked the brakes on my 14 Focus and they are barely worn but then I have a 5 speed stick so I use my engine braking to slow down and I drive my age (70) as well. I average 40 mpg too. I still have the original tires at 55K but I'll replace them this spring, getting a bit worn but still serviceable. Don't care what you drive, if you drive like a fool, you'll be replacing brakes, tires and suspension parts. I'd say your annual maintenance cost is a bit higher than mine because I do everything myself (including tires).

Plenty of power for my old butt.

I paid 11 grand for mine off lease with 24K on the meter and slapped on the extended Ford factory warranty to be safe because of all the electronic gizmo's.

 

[begreen]

In more rural parts of the country, one can easily get 100K+ on a set of brakes if they don't drive like a maniac.

It really depends on how the car is driven and location. Brakes wear faster if one lives in hilly or mountainous terrain. Also not true if one's daily route includes a lot of stop and go driving.

 

[SidecarFlip]

I'd say that all depends on one, the driver and two the transmission. I engine brake and downshift all the time and there is no 'push' from an automatic transmission in my car. it has a clutch, but then, today, people don't know how to drive anything but a PRNDL gear selector....

 

[Ashful]

...but then, today, people don't know how to drive anything but a PRNDL gear selector....

Oh, aren’t you holier than thou? I owned nothing but manual transmission for 25 years, until 2016, and all but one mechanic, valet, and car wash attendant who’ve ever hopped into my car to take the wheel have seemed to know how to drive manual, just fine. I’d be surprised if most over age 30 haven’t owned at least one manual trans car in their past, and that makes up roughly 75% of the driving population.

Now that the vehicles I want are no longer available in manual, I’ve been forced over to auto. I can definitely see why brake wear is an issue with the auto trans, I almost had to retrain myself on stopping, it takes substantially more brake pedal pressure to stop a car without the aid of manual transmission, and a clutch to disconnect it as the car comes to a complete stop. That doesn’t seem to be unique to just one vehicle, I have bought three new auto trans vehicles in the last four years, we presently have three autos and one manual.

 

[SidecarFlip]

In as much as you appear to have gotten up on the wrong side of the bed with your opening comment. Yes, it's getting harder to find a standard transmission in a vehicle and conversely, young people today have no idea how to drive one as evidenced by the Commercial Drivers License rule change where now you must have a special endorsement on your CDL that shows you are proficient in operating a standard transmission.

No endorsement means you are only qualified to operate an automatic or servo clutch Clas 6-8 truck.

With the younger set today, if it's not PRNDL, they haven't a clue. In fact, don't use a 'Valet' parking service anywhere. The 'Valet's' don't have a clue how to drive a stick shift.

 

[SpaceBus]

Rural areas will have more drivers familiar with manual, at least this is my experience. Most rural kids operate dirt bikes, ATVs, and other vehicles that have manual transmissions on a more regular basis than folks in cities and suburbs. In some cities you don't need to use a car at all. My wife didn't get her driver's license until she was 20, but most rural kids get them at 15 or 16. Rural areas often lack public transportation or money for newer cars, so old stuff tends to stay running longer.

Anyway, this is off topic, especially since everything in the future will most likely not have transmissions at all.

 

[SidecarFlip]

Not in my lifetime.

 

[ABMax24]

I think the ICE vs Electric topic will turn out the same as the steam locomotive vs diesel electric locomotive era.

There was huge push back from the engineers that said diesel would never replace steam, and in the first years they were right. The diesels were unreliable and had lower power outputs than the steam engines of the time, and it was often seen that the steam engines towed the diesels back to the repair yard. Eventually as time went on the diesels become more powerful and reliable. To the point that the diesels were pulling the steam engines back to the maintenance yard. The diesels took over as the workhorses on the freight routes and the steam engines eventually became forgotten.

The part that makes me sad about this is one day kids won't know what a V8 sounds like. Or what a turbocharger or supercharger was designed and used for.

 

[SpaceBus]

As is the way with everything. Automobiles put carriage manufacturers out of business.

 

[Ashful]

The part that makes me sad about this is one day kids won't know what a V8 sounds like. Or what a turbocharger or supercharger was designed and used for.

Agreed. But at least the kids have Youtube. Maybe they’ll assume all ICEs sounded this sinister.

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As is the way with everything. Automobiles put carriage manufacturers out of business.

... and most of what I know about caring for horses probably came from movies.

 

[ABMax24]

Agreed. But at least the kids have Youtube. Maybe they’ll assume all ICEs sounded this sinister.

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... and most of what I know about caring for horses probably came from movies.

I think this topic deserves it's own thread. I'll start one...

 

[MTASH]

It really depends on how the car is driven and location. Brakes wear faster if one lives in hilly or mountainous terrain. Also not true if one's daily route includes a lot of stop and go driving.

As I said, rural without a lot of stop and go helps. I do live in mountainous terrain as I commute from 5500' to 3700' and back every day.

It does really have a lot to do with driving habits.

 

[semipro]

As a former auto mechanic and someone who still does their own repairs, I'm really enjoying our Nissan Leaf commuter. It requires way less of the types of maintenance that I least liked doing -- oil changes, brakes, exhaust.
I see my time as the biggest benefactor -- less shopping for parts, doing the repairs, and disposing of the oil and old parts (responsibly).
Time spent at the filling station seems to be about the same overall as what I spend connecting to the charger where I work which literally takes about 10 sec.

 

[bholler]

Me either. If folks are truly spending $600-700 or more on average annual maintenance, they should consider switching to a more reliable brand of vehicle. Our '12 Focus has averaged $150/year (excluding tires). This is for 21 oil changes, some air filters, a battery, one set of plugs, and coolant flush. I've stuck to buying Fords and Toyotas over the years and this has held true. There are good arguments for electric vehicles but annual maintenance is a red herring IMO.

I don't totally agree with the brakes argument either. We have 105,000 miles on our car and I have never touched the brakes, and won't need to if we trade it in the next couple of years. In more rural parts of the country, one can easily get 100K+ on a set of brakes if they don't drive like a maniac.

Maybe you can in Montana. But not here. Our work truck get new pads about every 20000 miles. Personal cars probably 30 or so. Mountains are hard on brakes. And transmissions

 

[bholler]

In as much as you appear to have gotten up on the wrong side of the bed with your opening comment. Yes, it's getting harder to find a standard transmission in a vehicle and conversely, young people today have no idea how to drive one as evidenced by the Commercial Drivers License rule change where now you must have a special endorsement on your CDL that shows you are proficient in operating a standard transmission.

No endorsement means you are only qualified to operate an automatic or servo clutch Clas 6-8 truck.

With the younger set today, if it's not PRNDL, they haven't a clue. In fact, don't use a 'Valet' parking service anywhere. The 'Valet's' don't have a clue how to drive a stick shift.

My 10 yr old can already drive a stick

 

[Ashful]

My 10 yr old can already drive a stick

I am a failure as a parent.

 

[bholler]

I am a failure as a parent.

I do have a parking lot at my house so it's easy. She has also done brake stands and a donut in the bronco

 

[MTASH]

Maybe you can in Montana. But not here. Our work truck get new pads about every 20000 miles. Personal cars probably 30 or so. Mountains are hard on brakes. And transmissions

I do live in the mountains, a few miles from the Continental Divide actually. Our work trucks go 100k+ but see a lot of highway miles. Assume you live in a very urban environment?

 

[bholler]

I do live in the mountains, a few miles from the Continental Divide actually. Our work trucks go 100k+ but see a lot of highway miles. Assume you live in a very urban environment?

Not urban at all the middle of the Appalachian mountains in Central PA. We see very few highway miles mostly rural roads. We are lucky to get 100k put of a transmission.

 

[Easy Livin’ 3000]

Maybe the range is a legit issue for your fleet, which is surprising to hear, but I guess it’s possible. But plugging in overnight? Why is that an issue? Either do it at your depot, or credit your employees per kWh for plugging in at home, the same as my company credits me for miles I put on my personal vehicle. Not exactly an insurmountable obstacle.

I wish I could fast forward 20 years, and watch someone from our generation explain to the next, how we thought it was more convenient to drive ten or fifteen minutes to a filling station, and stand in the cold by a gas pump for ten minutes every 200 miles, versus just plugging in our car at home each night.

In 20 years, only us luddites will still be plugging our cars in. There will just be a place to park that charges either by robotics, or wirelessly.

 

[Easy Livin’ 3000]

Hydrogen fuel in CA is reported to be around $5/gal FWIW.

Aye, there's the rub. The full costs of fossil fuels need to be tallied to level the playing field. That includes environmental and human health costs.

What about the costs of the military to police the middle East?

When will we finally figure out that making crude oil worthless (other than as a low value chemical feedstock that we can supply ourselves) will completely disable the terrorists from the middle East? That's another enormous cost that is rarely accounted for.

 

[begreen]

The IMF places the cost of US fossil fuel subsidies at $649 Billion a year. That's well over 10 times what the Fed spends on education. I can agree with the Just Say No to Subsidies crowd. Drop the fossil fuel industry bennies and level the playing field. Renewables would kick butt then.

 

[EatenByLimestone]

Same platform as hummer:

(broken link removed to https://www.yahoo.com/autos/cadillac-electric-suv-confirmed-400-172815361.html)