Water in basement floor after French drain install
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You are not wrong. Given the porous nature of concrete and similar masonry products, the vapor barrier should be directly under the slab. The idea is to avoid having any reservoir of wetness directly against the concrete, such as a sand layer or, as in this case, a pipe buried in stone and sitting on a vapor barrier that prevents residual water from draining downward. However, we're talking about a narrow strip of concrete over that french drain. Unless the rest of the basement slab has a vapor barrier right under it, then misplacement of a narrow strip of polyethylene in the french drain construction hardly matters. Here is a good explanation of why the poly sheet belongs right below the slab: https://buildingscience.com/documents/insights/bsi-003-concrete-floor-problems.
ya im familiar with it just was not sure if its part of the building code in that area as it is here. i will disagree on the placement through if wrapped around the pipe then their will always be a % of water going over and under the vapor barrier and will never work 100%. In my area that would have never passed inspection.
Rarely do vapor barriers under concrete slabs survive, concrete folks hate plastic under the slab as it takes longer for the concrete to set to the point they can float it. Unless someone watches them like a hawk, they will punch holes in the barrier or just not put one down.
Never really have that issue when I'm doing concrete. Iv had it take off on me to where I was barley able to float it. We are even required to put it under sidewalks
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It doesn't matter if holes are punched in a vapor barrier under the concrete. From the Building Science article I referenced there is this:
"Okay, so we don’t need the sand layer to handle the “curl” thing. But what about using the sand layer to protect the polyethylene? Hah. The polyethylene does not need protecting. You can poke holes in it, you can puncture it, you can tear it, you can leave gaps in it, and pretty much have your way with it as long as it is in direct contact with the concrete. Huh? But, but, vapor barriers have to be continuous and free from any holes. Actually, no. Air barriers need to be continuous and free from holes, but vapor barriers do not need to be. Lots of vapor moves by air movement, not a heck of a lot of vapor moves by vapor diffusion. The concrete slab is the air barrier, and the ripped and torn and punctured polyethylene sheet is the vapor barrier. It’s that Fick’s Law thing. Diffusion is a direct function of surface area—if I get 95 percent of the surface covered I am pretty much 95 percent effective—and the parts that are left I have filled with concrete which is also pretty good as a vapor barrier. I could wear golf shoes and march around the plastic vapor barrier and not do much damage. But put that sand layer in there and you are doomed."
Concrete workers tend to like a mix that is easy to work, rather than a really stiff mix that results from a properly low water/cement ratio that gives a good finished slab, strong and without edge curl. The smart contractor or home owner will insist on a mix without excess water, and the workers can just do what's required or work for someone else. When you're paying the bill, you get to specify the product, or at least that's how it's supposed to work. Reality often is different, though.
Around here letting the workers to what they want is not their option. Everything is tested prior to placing so they are not allowed to add water after the test... bigger pours the inspector stands right beside the truck
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sportbikerider78
Minister of Fire
If the home owner is smart, he will ask for XPS or EPS insulation to be put down. It can also act as a vapor barrier.
So we ha da big nor’easter storm yesterday. Both pvc pipes going into the sump dumped water in all day and night. The pump did its job. I have one issue spot where the hearth is. Water seeps up from there. I think I am going to remove the hearth, move the drain all the way back to the foundation wall and install a 2nd pump in that corner. A very small amount came down the fireplace but that is to be excepted since it is not capped.
![[Hearth.com] Water in basement floor after French drain install](https://www.hearth.com/talk/attachments/26698a621cbef8d67d456e6c02850d1f-webp.223741/ "[Hearth.com] Water in basement floor after French drain install")
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I ask because I wonder if all the water in the photo came down the flue rather than some of it coming up through the drain system.
You can tell it’s coming up through the area around the hearth.
![[Hearth.com] Water in basement floor after French drain install](https://www.hearth.com/talk/attachments/61de8ab7b91e27c5cf61a5f59d2a0327-webp.223742/ "[Hearth.com] Water in basement floor after French drain install")
![[Hearth.com] Water in basement floor after French drain install](https://www.hearth.com/talk/attachments/5d4eb5ae330dfa1cfa48d583ac27a439-webp.223743/ "[Hearth.com] Water in basement floor after French drain install")
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On
One of the main reasons I capped my flue top. Water. Can get a lot of water in there during a rain storm. Nice Stainless Steel cap did the trick.
I did my basement similar to yours but I left about 2 inches open along the wall. Its filled with 2b stone with the PVC pipe under that . The wall plate(treated wood) sit above it elevated about an inch. The water never shows itself above the stone ,as soon as it hits the PVC pipe under the stone its directed toward the sump. This will, also be useful if I ever have a big water leak that spills on the basement floor. (which iv had a few already)I left a half inch gap under the finished wall. You can also leave the same gap under the baseboard trim. Any future water on the floor can be swept right under the wall to the drain system. My setup work so well iv never had a wet slab yet in the 10 yrs iv had this setup. Water that runs down the walls goes right into the drain system to the 30 gallon sump pump pit.
One difference with my setup is i poured the whole floor with new concrete with stone underneath ,so any water coming right up underneath will go sideways under the slab to the drain system immediately. I see your floor is quite old and may not have any stone underneath.
And with the vapor barrier under the stone and the hard pack of earth under and around the old floor the water has no ware to go but up
Most of my water comes down the walls ,but in your case id identify all the places it comes to the surface and trench those spots toward the wall into the perimeter pipe. Like spokes on a bicycle. If I were going to spend a lot of money and time on that basement remodel I would consider jack hammering up that old floor and do it right.It may only be a few inches thick. Even if you install plastic and an elevated floor it looks like your still going to have a mold factory going on under there, that will never dry out. I poured my floor in sections about 4 x 6 Ft squares from a mixer and wheel barrowed it into the basement.
Going back and looking at your pic's i see one of what looks like the install trench. Please say its deeper than what that picture shows. Looks like they barley went below the level of original floor. Also just out of curiosity why did you not go with a system outside of your house?
sportbikerider78
Minister of Fire
It looks like the water is coming from below and not weeping into the pipe...instead weeping above it.
Dude..seriously...I would not finish this space till you dig around your foundation from the outside, and install a series of french drains. You have pressure from the outside forcing water inside. Best to fix the outside problem.
It sucks. I did it myself. I hated life for a while.
Dude..seriously...I would not finish this space till you dig around your foundation from the outside, and install a series of french drains. You have pressure from the outside forcing water inside. Best to fix the outside problem.
It sucks. I did it myself. I hated life for a while.
You cant fight WATER ,its been around a lot longer than we have. And its here to stay. Only thing you can do is stay above it.
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