SpaceBus
Minister of Fire
Hard to beat cashews or peanuts for a quick healthy protein snack. Dried fruit is unfortunately mostly sugar, but there is a bit of fiber in there too.
Veganism, Human Health and Conspiracies.
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I am mostly on a reduced-calorie diet. There are occasional local eggs, honey, and sugar in there, but small bits.
Poindexter
Minister of Fire
I appreciate the points on the quick protein fixes. All are relatively useful.
FWIW both iron deficiency anemia and protein calorie malnutrition are serious problems that are not going to be fixed with a pocket full of tree nuts.
Iron def anemia we can start treating inpatient with an IV infusion like Venofer (no financial relationship). It is a big molecule that needs a big IV line into a relatively big vein for a reasonably hydrated patient. Otherwise we risk pulling fluid through membranes because the osmolality of the drug is so high. 1-2 weeks later the patient will get another lab draw and either be fixed, need more iron infusions, or need to start a bone marrow workup looking for the big C. Typically females aged >65 years who had, you know, female stuff going on before menopause, but not always.
Protein Calorie Malnutrition is when someone gets into muscle wasting and so forth. These are often folks who retired >20 years ago with 'enough' money, but as their medication co-pays and cost of living has gone up, the net grocery budget has gone down; they are often living on shelf stable carbohydrate for calories without adequate protein intake for 10 years or so. Their serum protein and serum albumin levels will both be severely depleted.
When we find these in time, red meat like beef or lamb or bison (goat, deer, musk ox)) provides both complete protein and heme iron, the form of iron with the highest bio-availability. When either of these disease states are far enough advanced for the enzymes needed to process the red meat into the bloodstream have been degraded enough there is, this year, very little modern allopathic medicine can do.
Again, thanks for the short term tips.
FWIW both iron deficiency anemia and protein calorie malnutrition are serious problems that are not going to be fixed with a pocket full of tree nuts.
Iron def anemia we can start treating inpatient with an IV infusion like Venofer (no financial relationship). It is a big molecule that needs a big IV line into a relatively big vein for a reasonably hydrated patient. Otherwise we risk pulling fluid through membranes because the osmolality of the drug is so high. 1-2 weeks later the patient will get another lab draw and either be fixed, need more iron infusions, or need to start a bone marrow workup looking for the big C. Typically females aged >65 years who had, you know, female stuff going on before menopause, but not always.
Protein Calorie Malnutrition is when someone gets into muscle wasting and so forth. These are often folks who retired >20 years ago with 'enough' money, but as their medication co-pays and cost of living has gone up, the net grocery budget has gone down; they are often living on shelf stable carbohydrate for calories without adequate protein intake for 10 years or so. Their serum protein and serum albumin levels will both be severely depleted.
When we find these in time, red meat like beef or lamb or bison (goat, deer, musk ox)) provides both complete protein and heme iron, the form of iron with the highest bio-availability. When either of these disease states are far enough advanced for the enzymes needed to process the red meat into the bloodstream have been degraded enough there is, this year, very little modern allopathic medicine can do.
Again, thanks for the short term tips.
Perhaps relevant to older folks needing more protein...
Part of aging for some people is the loss of lean muscle mass (sarcopenia), to the point of becoming very thin and frail. Often associated with a loss of appetite. Conventional wisdom is to up the protein eaten by these people, e.g. adding protein powders or shakes to their diet to boost calories some and protein a LOT. And that does appear to help people.
It appears that a subset of older people have degraded kidney function (often a result of atherosclerosis of the blood supply to the kidneys and vessels within) which results in mild acidosis (acidification of the blood). Apparently sarcopenia is largely caused by acidosis, and can also be reversed by treating the acidosis directly. The Western diet tends to be acidic, which likd the high salt, we can cope with through our kidneys. But as our kidneys age (or are clogged up with cholesterol) our ability to excrete acid (and salt) decreases so we get acidosis and muscle wasting (and hypertension from the salt).
There are folks that spend a lot of time peeing on litmus paper... I am not one of them (yet).
So what we see as 'normal aging' in the west is probably related to the Western diet + cumulative kidney damage, with the latter making the effects of the former more apparent later in life.
WFPB diets are alkalizing. So definitely up the protein, but soy based powders and bean/lentils would seem sufficient for this, and cheaper than beef.
Meat and dairy are pro-inflammation and carcinogenic, probably not a good idea to increase if you are older.
----------------------------------------------------
IN other news, I read about a neurotoxin called BMAA from cyanobacteria that has been implicated in major neurodegenerative diseases:
brainchemistrylabs.org
In the US, it is mostly eaten in shellfish, and seafood from warmer water. Apparently the BMAA (which is an abnormal amino acid) gets incorporated into brain proteins over time, and then late in life drives/accelerates the protein misfolding in ALS, Alzheimers and perhaps Parkinsons. The 'latency time' from ingestion to brain problems is 30-50 years. Apparently there are ALS clusters in New England where people lived near an algae laden pond, and ate fish from the pond for many years.
My Mom just passed last year (at age 87) with Stage II dementia, after a life time of eating lots of shellfish, for the last 25 years from the warm waters of Florida.
Part of aging for some people is the loss of lean muscle mass (sarcopenia), to the point of becoming very thin and frail. Often associated with a loss of appetite. Conventional wisdom is to up the protein eaten by these people, e.g. adding protein powders or shakes to their diet to boost calories some and protein a LOT. And that does appear to help people.
It appears that a subset of older people have degraded kidney function (often a result of atherosclerosis of the blood supply to the kidneys and vessels within) which results in mild acidosis (acidification of the blood). Apparently sarcopenia is largely caused by acidosis, and can also be reversed by treating the acidosis directly. The Western diet tends to be acidic, which likd the high salt, we can cope with through our kidneys. But as our kidneys age (or are clogged up with cholesterol) our ability to excrete acid (and salt) decreases so we get acidosis and muscle wasting (and hypertension from the salt).
There are folks that spend a lot of time peeing on litmus paper... I am not one of them (yet).
So what we see as 'normal aging' in the west is probably related to the Western diet + cumulative kidney damage, with the latter making the effects of the former more apparent later in life.
WFPB diets are alkalizing. So definitely up the protein, but soy based powders and bean/lentils would seem sufficient for this, and cheaper than beef.
Meat and dairy are pro-inflammation and carcinogenic, probably not a good idea to increase if you are older.
----------------------------------------------------
IN other news, I read about a neurotoxin called BMAA from cyanobacteria that has been implicated in major neurodegenerative diseases:
Epidemiological Study Finds Cyanobacterial Toxin BMAA Causes ALS — Brain Chemistry Labs The Institute for EthnoMedicine
An important new article on ALS epidemiology strongly supports the hypothesis that the cyanobacterial toxin BMAA causes ALS, a devastating paralytic disease that can strike people down in the prime of life.
brainchemistrylabs.org
In the US, it is mostly eaten in shellfish, and seafood from warmer water. Apparently the BMAA (which is an abnormal amino acid) gets incorporated into brain proteins over time, and then late in life drives/accelerates the protein misfolding in ALS, Alzheimers and perhaps Parkinsons. The 'latency time' from ingestion to brain problems is 30-50 years. Apparently there are ALS clusters in New England where people lived near an algae laden pond, and ate fish from the pond for many years.
My Mom just passed last year (at age 87) with Stage II dementia, after a life time of eating lots of shellfish, for the last 25 years from the warm waters of Florida.
Yes, we got off the "western" diet about 50 yrs ago and have been low fat & salt for the past 30 yrs. But we love to cook and eat and that has added pounds, especially in the winter. Basically, our bodies need fewer calories because we are not working them as hard. My chiropractor told me a decade ago that I was born with a 1-ton pickup body, but now with a lot of mileage on it, the springs and suspension are weaker which has me down to a light-duty 1/2 ton. Mostly I want to get my weight down to reduce stress on my body, especially my knees. I have avoided knee surgery for the past two years and would like that to continue.
I get tested annually and my iron levels are good. Curiously, my B12 was low, but that was easily corrected with a supplement. On the same diet, I do tend to sometimes go acidic while my wife does not. Our bodies are quite different both in heritage and design. I use natural means to control this by eating fermented foods and keeping acidic beverage consumption down.
![[Hearth.com] Veganism, Human Health and Conspiracies.](https://www.hearth.com/talk/data/attachments/310/310435-948edfafc3b287512122e159aa50f6b1.jpg?hash=xKZWZ_WUI2 "[Hearth.com] Veganism, Human Health and Conspiracies.")
Poindexter
Minister of Fire
At the end of the day, we are all going to die of something, someday. Nobody gets out of life alive.
I guess there are three exceptions, total, in the entire bible. IIRC one of the old testament fellows, Elisha/ Elijah was able to step onto a fiery chariot sent from above as a live man and was taken directly up into heaven. I have no reason to expect I might be the fourth.
For me, the main thing is I do not want to linger. When it is my time to go I want to have one massive heart attack or one massive stroke and just be dead. Dead before I hit the ground, pronounced dead by the first responder to arrive on scene, agreed DOA at the emergency room doc. Point blank shotgun blast to my chest from the whatever. I do not want to be swirling around the drain in some ICU somewhere for week after week. I definitely do not want to get transferred, in an irreversible coma, to some ventilator farm with a name like Shady Acres or Meadow Oaks.
One thing that bugs me, I mean absolutely roasts my coals (off the clock soapbox) is American folk's (in general) point of view of what comes after the earthy realm. I can intellectually appreciate that less than 40%...never mind.
Good thread, I shall make valiant ongoing efforts to keep my minority opinions to myself. In the meantime, I am reminded of Robert Frost's poem about the deacon's carriage. The carriage was designed to fall apart all at once (ala the blues bother's car) rather than have any one component fail first.
At this juncture I am pinging my local internal medicine docs to find out where they will medevac me to if I show up in the local ER with tardive dyskinesia secondary to excess dopamine production from too wide and too populous colon biome. The docs at the receiving medevac hospital my local docs choose are the docs I need to be talking too now.
My internal sense of well being remains incredibly intense compared to all of my lifetime for coming up on a week now. The idea that I could collect 4-5 trusted friends, use stone age technology, and take down a mastodon tomorrow morning (other than mastodons being extinct), seems quite simple and achievable. The idea of hunting a grizzly bear with a hickory switch, solo, remains problematic.
I guess there are three exceptions, total, in the entire bible. IIRC one of the old testament fellows, Elisha/ Elijah was able to step onto a fiery chariot sent from above as a live man and was taken directly up into heaven. I have no reason to expect I might be the fourth.
For me, the main thing is I do not want to linger. When it is my time to go I want to have one massive heart attack or one massive stroke and just be dead. Dead before I hit the ground, pronounced dead by the first responder to arrive on scene, agreed DOA at the emergency room doc. Point blank shotgun blast to my chest from the whatever. I do not want to be swirling around the drain in some ICU somewhere for week after week. I definitely do not want to get transferred, in an irreversible coma, to some ventilator farm with a name like Shady Acres or Meadow Oaks.
One thing that bugs me, I mean absolutely roasts my coals (off the clock soapbox) is American folk's (in general) point of view of what comes after the earthy realm. I can intellectually appreciate that less than 40%...never mind.
Good thread, I shall make valiant ongoing efforts to keep my minority opinions to myself. In the meantime, I am reminded of Robert Frost's poem about the deacon's carriage. The carriage was designed to fall apart all at once (ala the blues bother's car) rather than have any one component fail first.
At this juncture I am pinging my local internal medicine docs to find out where they will medevac me to if I show up in the local ER with tardive dyskinesia secondary to excess dopamine production from too wide and too populous colon biome. The docs at the receiving medevac hospital my local docs choose are the docs I need to be talking too now.
My internal sense of well being remains incredibly intense compared to all of my lifetime for coming up on a week now. The idea that I could collect 4-5 trusted friends, use stone age technology, and take down a mastodon tomorrow morning (other than mastodons being extinct), seems quite simple and achievable. The idea of hunting a grizzly bear with a hickory switch, solo, remains problematic.
Saw a great free documentary on YT today....
This one is fairly recent (2020), and IMO is impeccably researched and covers ALL the science/medicine/athleticism/environment/ethics bases I can think of. Its not fancy, and is mostly just interview clips from appropriate experts in the different subject areas.
It does argue that the WFPB diet is obvious for a number of reasons.
This one is fairly recent (2020), and IMO is impeccably researched and covers ALL the science/medicine/athleticism/environment/ethics bases I can think of. Its not fancy, and is mostly just interview clips from appropriate experts in the different subject areas.
It does argue that the WFPB diet is obvious for a number of reasons.
Poindexter
Minister of Fire
So I have been 'experimentally' vegan for about two weeks now, with three cheat days so far.
I miss dairy the most. Ben and Jerry's, colby, mozarella, bleu, romano.
I do not miss feeling yucky today because of something I ate yesterday. Keeping my 4T friends happy is a good thing.
I miss dairy the most. Ben and Jerry's, colby, mozarella, bleu, romano.
I do not miss feeling yucky today because of something I ate yesterday. Keeping my 4T friends happy is a good thing.
I use full fat Oatly in my coffee, '2%' Oatly on my cereal, and indulge in a small serving (0.5-0.6 cups) of dairy free Ben and Jerry's when the mood strikes.
All the savory food I used to put cheese on, I now put sliced avocado on, and that has hit the spot. I have learned better cado management. I now buy a bag of minis ( a good serving size), rock hard. And when they all get soft (and perfectly green inside for eating), I put the whole bag in the fridge. And then they don't turn brown for more like 5 days rather than 2, and I can finish them off.
I was a real hog for high quality parmesan on many dishes. This was (in hindsight) partly a flavor thing, partly a salt thing. I do keep vegan parm in the fridge, and use it when I want to, but that has been less frequent with time.
I also got vegan mozzarella to put on homemade pizza. If you put a ton on, it doesn't really replace real mozz, but if you hav a lot of other topics, its adds enough cheese to seem like a real pizza.
Oh, and already described, I figured out how to make all my baked good faves with vegan butter and flax egg and Oatly milk. Mostly a drop in replacement of those three items and it will just 'come out' fine.
Oh, and I buy vegan semi-sweet chocolate for putting on baked goods.
Your taste buds recalibrate. Cheat days (and added salt) reset that process.
EbS-P
Minister of Fire
Another update....
In addition to all the changes I made to my diet, I started putting ground flax seeds on my morning cereal 6 mos ago. Lots of fiber, prebiotics and healthy Omega-3s.
Finally went through the first bag and bought a different brand a couple months ago. The new seeds are a lot gooeier when wet.
After a few weeks on the new seeds, I didn't feel myself... one thing was that my libido went to zero.
Googled it, and found out that the mucilage in flax seeds is the most potent known phytoestrogen and strongly reduces testosterone. Documented in humans. Wow.
There is all this lore out there about soy-boys and phytoestrogens in soy (or elsewhere) and all this masculinity stuff. Which is BS for soy if you look into it. But for flax seeds it is kind TRUE!
Apparently the first brand of flax I got was low enough on the phytoestrogen slime scale that a teaspoon a day didn't do much. The second brand... wow.
I switched to ground chia seeds on my cereal. Very similar nutritional profile, no known phytoestrogenic effect. And now I feel a lot better.
In addition to all the changes I made to my diet, I started putting ground flax seeds on my morning cereal 6 mos ago. Lots of fiber, prebiotics and healthy Omega-3s.
Finally went through the first bag and bought a different brand a couple months ago. The new seeds are a lot gooeier when wet.
After a few weeks on the new seeds, I didn't feel myself... one thing was that my libido went to zero.
Googled it, and found out that the mucilage in flax seeds is the most potent known phytoestrogen and strongly reduces testosterone. Documented in humans. Wow.
There is all this lore out there about soy-boys and phytoestrogens in soy (or elsewhere) and all this masculinity stuff. Which is BS for soy if you look into it. But for flax seeds it is kind TRUE!
Apparently the first brand of flax I got was low enough on the phytoestrogen slime scale that a teaspoon a day didn't do much. The second brand... wow.
I switched to ground chia seeds on my cereal. Very similar nutritional profile, no known phytoestrogenic effect. And now I feel a lot better.
Poindexter
Minister of Fire
I am mostly exploring the vegan cuisines of India. What I especially like are the ones that call for softening the diced onion in olive oil. I am done ordering tofu as the added protein in Thai curry, that gets deep fried in some heavily refined oil, just yucky. I do have one local Indian restaurant with a pretty fair chef. About 2/3 of his menu is vegan, so when I see something interesting looking on the interweb I can go to his place and try it.
I am very likely to try making samosas in the next little bit, but I will use homemade sourdough and try to bake rather than deep fry them.
My current go-to breakfast is black coffee with some curried chickpeas over pearled barley. I can spice it anywhere from mild to wild, but there are something like 12-15 plants in the recipe, so a terrific start to the day with another 12 unique plants coming off the salad bar a few hours later.
I did buy more avocado today, recognizing milk fat as a satiety issue for me. What I really need in my diet (my opinion) is less fat, not fake dairy. I have had to order some spices online as I simply have not found them local.
I am very likely to try making samosas in the next little bit, but I will use homemade sourdough and try to bake rather than deep fry them.
My current go-to breakfast is black coffee with some curried chickpeas over pearled barley. I can spice it anywhere from mild to wild, but there are something like 12-15 plants in the recipe, so a terrific start to the day with another 12 unique plants coming off the salad bar a few hours later.
I did buy more avocado today, recognizing milk fat as a satiety issue for me. What I really need in my diet (my opinion) is less fat, not fake dairy. I have had to order some spices online as I simply have not found them local.
Makes sense.
I keep coming back to the tikka masala recipe I posted upthread. I make it without 'protein' like tofu or tempeh, and just add asparagus. I can always add some protein post-facto or on the side to individual servings if I want. It calls for 'garam masala' but I just do like 3 parts curry to one part allspice for that. I have quite a rack of spices at this point, and I replaced all the ones that were years old and stale. And I am going through them.
I noticed that for a lot of indian/asian dishes, you carmelize the onions first, and then add all the spices to the oil/onions for 60 seconds or so before the other ingredients to 'bloom' their flavor. That really takes it up a notch.
Interesting trick: Tumeric has the amazing antioxidant and anti-inflammatory curcumin in it. But absorption is often low. It turns out that black pepper has an ingredient that hugely boosts curcumin availability. So you should always add fresh black pepper to anything with tumeric. Just as is usually done in traditional Indian cuisine.
My kid and I made a vegan birthday cake last night. Two layers, yellow cake, choco buttercream frosting. The cake came out (it has a little tumeric to make it yellow) with no egg substitute. We were amazed.
This: https://www.noracooks.com/vegan-yellow-cake/
The buttercream we faked by subbing vegan butter and milk in an old fave recipe. Came out too stiff and hard to spread, but I can fix that next time by adding more (oat) milk.
Obviously, I agree... I still need to drop my total fat intake too. That cake has close to a pound of vegan butter and 95g of saturated fat! But birthdays come but once a year.
I keep coming back to the tikka masala recipe I posted upthread. I make it without 'protein' like tofu or tempeh, and just add asparagus. I can always add some protein post-facto or on the side to individual servings if I want. It calls for 'garam masala' but I just do like 3 parts curry to one part allspice for that. I have quite a rack of spices at this point, and I replaced all the ones that were years old and stale. And I am going through them.
I noticed that for a lot of indian/asian dishes, you carmelize the onions first, and then add all the spices to the oil/onions for 60 seconds or so before the other ingredients to 'bloom' their flavor. That really takes it up a notch.
Interesting trick: Tumeric has the amazing antioxidant and anti-inflammatory curcumin in it. But absorption is often low. It turns out that black pepper has an ingredient that hugely boosts curcumin availability. So you should always add fresh black pepper to anything with tumeric. Just as is usually done in traditional Indian cuisine.
My kid and I made a vegan birthday cake last night. Two layers, yellow cake, choco buttercream frosting. The cake came out (it has a little tumeric to make it yellow) with no egg substitute. We were amazed.
This: https://www.noracooks.com/vegan-yellow-cake/
The buttercream we faked by subbing vegan butter and milk in an old fave recipe. Came out too stiff and hard to spread, but I can fix that next time by adding more (oat) milk.
Obviously, I agree... I still need to drop my total fat intake too. That cake has close to a pound of vegan butter and 95g of saturated fat! But birthdays come but once a year.
IMO, baked samosas are much tastier than deep fried. Small samosas seem to come out better than large ones, but they can be a lot of work. Never tried them with homemade sourdough, though.
One of my favorite meals is curried garbanzo beans, usually with various greens added. Garbanzos are also good with pesto. Actually, most things are good with pesto if it's made fresh.
Only black pepper? Not red/cayenne? How about other kinds of red/green/yellow peppers: habanero, serrano, jalapeno, thai, etc?
If I recall, the plant that makes black pepper (peppercorns) is not even related to the other kinds of plants that make pepper veggies. I think the in middle ages 'pepper' just meant 'spicy', so the different plants got lumped together.
Curcumin absorption is helped by peperin, a compound in black pepper, which is not present in the others. Ofc, you add any of those bc they are delicious.
Get some real Garam Masala. It is a very good seasoning blend to have on hand. We're lucky to have a large Indian population locally and several first-rate spice shops. There are unique seasonings in good Indian dishes that are hard to find elsewhere. If you want the best, order from India, but Amazon has a lot of brands too. We visited the most exceptional spice shop in Jodhpur and it was mind-blowing. The quality was excellent and the prices were great. We still have and use their chai mix for great tea. I see their website is still up, but am not sure if they are selling online. The website doesn't look like it's been updated for a long time.Makes sense.
I keep coming back to the tikka masala recipe I posted upthread. I make it without 'protein' like tofu or tempeh, and just add asparagus. I can always add some protein post-facto or on the side to individual servings if I want. It calls for 'garam masala' but I just do like 3 parts curry to one part allspice for that. I have quite a rack of spices at this point, and I replaced all the ones that were years old and stale. And I am going through them.
I noticed that for a lot of indian/asian dishes, you carmelize the onions first, and then add all the spices to the oil/onions for 60 seconds or so before the other ingredients to 'bloom' their flavor. That really takes it up a notch.
Interesting trick: Tumeric has the amazing antioxidant and anti-inflammatory curcumin in it. But absorption is often low. It turns out that black pepper has an ingredient that hugely boosts curcumin availability. So you should always add fresh black pepper to anything with tumeric. Just as is usually done in traditional Indian cuisine.
My kid and I made a vegan birthday cake last night. Two layers, yellow cake, choco buttercream frosting. The cake came out (it has a little tumeric to make it yellow) with no egg substitute. We were amazed.
This: https://www.noracooks.com/vegan-yellow-cake/
The buttercream we faked by subbing vegan butter and milk in an old fave recipe. Came out too stiff and hard to spread, but I can fix that next time by adding more (oat) milk.
Obviously, I agree... I still need to drop my total fat intake too. That cake has close to a pound of vegan butter and 95g of saturated fat! But birthdays come but once a year.
PS: a good Thai or Indian restaurant should always offer the option of straight or fried tofu. I always order straight tofu.
Poindexter
Minister of Fire
I am going to ask for straight instead of fried tofu at the next opportunity.
And I am going to have to try some of the fake vegan dairy products. I can be going along awesome awesome awesome and then a moment's inattention and I have just about eaten an entire batch of brownies. Rats.
And I am going to have to try some of the fake vegan dairy products. I can be going along awesome awesome awesome and then a moment's inattention and I have just about eaten an entire batch of brownies. Rats.
EbS-P
Minister of Fire
I have had some pretty delicious vegan brownies that if the pan were in the counter would not last 12 hours.
why would you want your tofu to taste like a steak if it's tofu.thats like saying fish tastes good if you use lemon to get rid of the fishy taste 
