To Insert Or Not...
- Thread starter Snakebit12
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Wow - I didn't mean to create a firestorm! But the recent comments confirm my initial concern - the science on this is not settled.
This is a terrific forum and I have learned alot from all of you in a very short time - thanks for that. I will provide an update once we get moving on a new ZC. Lots of great information on those in here as well.
This is a terrific forum and I have learned alot from all of you in a very short time - thanks for that. I will provide an update once we get moving on a new ZC. Lots of great information on those in here as well.
Heck we gotta have something to argue about every now and then.
It was shocking to see the flurry of responses!
Inserts in ZCs is a hot subject. Pun intended.
In fact probably the only time you will see me and Begreen argue in public.
In fact probably the only time you will see me and Begreen argue in public.
Science? This ain't all science. It's half art too. Truth be told I have only had an insert in a masonry fireplace. When I finally removed the fireplace I found the stove was better constructed and safer than the fireplace! But I have seen some nice insert in ZC installs that have been doing fine for several years.
jatoxico
Minister of Fire
The problem I see for the OP is this; Although there is some common ground thinking about an insert in a ZC fireplace between the pro & semi pro installers here, and the long time burners with that experience, any one of those folks could walk on-site and see something that completely changes how they feel about the feasibility and safety of this particular install. In that case, it's up to the OP and the installer to assess. Now we see poor installs on here all the time where some "pro" came out and did something dumb.
If you can get a certified guy and the manufacturers of both the ZC and the insert you choose to sign off then fine. For me though a 500 lb hunk of hot metal is enough worry. Who wants to add additional issues to have to sweat over every time you burn for the next 10-15 (longer) years because you went off the beaten path. Just my 2 cts.
If you can get a certified guy and the manufacturers of both the ZC and the insert you choose to sign off then fine. For me though a 500 lb hunk of hot metal is enough worry. Who wants to add additional issues to have to sweat over every time you burn for the next 10-15 (longer) years because you went off the beaten path. Just my 2 cts.
Interesting that you agree with jatoxico. I read his post that a professional installer should use his knowledge and experience to either safely install in insert or make clear why in this particular case that is not possible. However, the CSIA-certified professionals the OP talked to apparently flat out refused to even consider the possibility of putting an insert in the ZC fireplace although both manufacturers would be ok with it. The trend to doing everything "by the book" and neglecting professional judgement happens in many industries but worries me a lot. In the not too distant futures we will have robots as physicians or judges, and humans will have made themselves obsolete.
Well if both manufacturers said it was ok I would absolutely concider it. The problem is the tag on the zc unit in this case specifically says no inserts and there is no judgment needed here. And I am sorry but if you are in business you need to do things by the book there is still plenty of judgment needed but if you don't go by the book you will end up getting your self in trouble. I don't understand why you have a problem with that. I would not necessarily say I would never do it but I have yet to come across a zc unit that said it was ok. So due to that fact I have never been in a situation where I though it was a good option.
if the stove tag says no inserts I would not consider it at all in any situation. And as stated nether would he other certified sweeps that looked at it in doing so you would be opening yourself up to a huge liability. And unless you got a signed document from heat n glow you don't have permission that will over ide that tag.
They apparently say several different things but what they say doesn't matter what matters is what the specs say.
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