This thing is absolutely silly - AKA Nick's Sirocco 30 Install

[BKVP]

I'm holding out for a BK Ashford 20.

I can wish and hope, right?

They're on the way! We will be showing three of them next month at Hearth Expo. Painted black, enamel brown and enamel grey-blue. Full production by summer is the plan.

 

[rdust]

They're on the way! We will be showing three of them next month at Hearth Expo. Painted black, enamel brown and enamel grey-blue. Full production by summer is the plan.

Now how about that Ashford with a 4 cubic' box? I'd give you a pre-order today.

 

[CenterTree]

They're on the way! We will be showing three of them next month at Hearth Expo. Painted black, enamel brown and enamel grey-blue. Full production by summer is the plan.

AWESOME! We have been holding off on a wood stove for the living room area.

The Ashford 30 is too big for us. But looks nice.
The Sirocco 20 is not the "look" we want for our country house. But it is the right size.

An Ashford 20 is PERFECT.

 

[Quentin2]

Thanks man. How tall is your convection deck?

While I was waiting for the stove to arrive, I took the opportunity to give the chimney a mid-season cleaning with my Sooteater, so I'll have a fresh indicator of how much creosote is making it past the cat.

Convection deck is 1-3/4" tall, bottom of excell slip is about 1/4" below this

 

[Hoozie]

Maybe I missed it, but what kind of wood are you burning (hardwood or softwood)?

What's your fireview a few hours into the burn look like?

Now how about that Ashford with a 4 cubic' box?

Does a cat really care about how big the box beneath it is? (yes, after a certain point it likely has trouble keeping up with the smoke, but until that point...)

 

[begreen]

What were your flue temps running throughout the last burn?

 

[Highbeam]

Congrats man, good to see another satisfied bk owner in the fold, or "cult" as some have been saying. That was like a professional stove review. I'm using excell pipe as well and mine bottoms out before it hits the top of stove, no problems with mine so far, it helps that the convection deck hides this fact.

Might be a good idea to check your chimney after 2-4 weeks of burning to see what your buildup is gonna look like compared to your other stove. You might find that creosote builds a little quicker due to colder flue temps and longer burns. Some do and some don't it seems.

Note that his convection deck doesn't hide it. His flue pipe is not properly seated. I have a princess and my outer wall doesn't hit the stove top but that fact is hidden below the deck as well.

 

[blueguy]

His flue pipe is not properly seated.

The inner pipe IS seated against the top of the stove collar just like it would be if it was mated to a section of pipe below it. Unless you're running Excel Ultrablack on your stove with an identical height collar and have a standard section of pipe hooked to the stove collar that sits the whole way down where the outer pipe is below the level of the deck, you're not comparing apples to apples.

 

[blueguy]

Maybe I missed it, but what kind of wood are you burning (hardwood or softwood)?

What's your fireview a few hours into the burn look like?

Burning mixed hardwoods. When I reloaded last night, there was some wispy flames for the first hour or so, but after that it went back to just a dull glow from the coals and no flames. Although the reflection of the cat in the laminate floor in front of the stove was pretty bright

 

[blueguy]

What were your flue temps running throughout the last burn?

After the first couple hours, the flue temp dropped to a hair under 400 and seemed to settle in around 350 or so for the night.

When I checked on the stove this morning at 0630, the stove top was sitting at about 350, the cat probe at about the 10 position and the flue at about 350 with about 1/2 the load left. The temp dropped to 10F last night, so I am assuming the increased draft had a bit to do with it. It's supposed to drop to -4F tonight, so I am going to run it at 2 with a half load and see where we're sitting tomorrow morning after 12 hours.

I've noticed a couple things consistently so far - the load burns from the center out, it also burns from the underside up (which is quite strange as the air comes in at the top of the glass) and the even though the cat is still well into the active zone, during the later stages of the burn I get almost no glow. An odd thing last night though - I got a faint smoke smell coming from the stove about 4 hours into the burn.

 

[blueguy]

...bottom of excell slip is about 1/4" below this

I just reread this - you're using a slip section mated to the stove?

 

[jeff_t]

The inner pipe IS seated against the top of the stove collar just like it would be if it was mated to a section of pipe below it. Unless you're running Excel Ultrablack on your stove with an identical height collar and have a standard section of pipe hooked to the stove collar that sits the whole way down where the outer pipe is below the level of the deck, you're not comparing apples to apples.

Don't bother trying to argue.

I get what you're saying. I don't understand why they can't make the adapter so it looks decent. All three of the Selkirk adapters I have used are the same way. The convection deck hides it on mine, but the other two look goofy.

 

[blueguy]

When I talked to BK in Penticton, they said they send out offers to the pipe manufacturers to test their pipes mated to the new stove models. Apparently ICC was one of the only ones who didn't take them up on it

In any case, it looks shoddy IMO, but most importantly, it's safe. If history is any indicator, we can count of winter being pretty well over by end-March, so I am going to wait until it is warm out to fully decide on my plan of action for improvements to my connector pipe.

 

[Highbeam]

I've never seen a door gasket splice covered like that. Do other new bks come like that too?

 

[Highbeam]

Don't bother trying to argue.
.

There's no argument here. The adapter is not seated and now he's getting smoke smell. Who made you the forum boss?

 

[jeff_t]

There's no argument here. The adapter is not seated and now he's getting smoke smell. Who made you the forum boss?

Nick states the inside pipe is seated in the flue collar. The outside pipe is not sitting down all the way on top of the stove. Perhaps visually unappealing, but the purpose of the outer layer is to create an insulating air space. Smoke goes up the inside. I think.

 

[Highbeam]

Nick states the inside pipe is seated in the flue collar. The outside pipe is not sitting down all the way on top of the stove. Perhaps visually unappealing, but the purpose of the outer layer is to create an insulating air space. Smoke goes up the inside. I think.

Had you considered the high likelihood that the inner pipe is setting on top of that weld blob and unable to drop into place? Nobody expects the outer wall to set on the stove top but until the taper of the inner wall mates with the cutout hole in the firebox the seal is not made. With a poor seal at the collar most of the smoke would make it up the chimney but so would room air which would damage draft. Smoke smell in the room is another symptom of a poor seal here. The only way to know is for nick to reach up into the bypass and verify that the tapered inner wall has indeed made it into the firebox past that weld blob. Easy.

Weve seen too many poorly operating bks due to mistakes at installation. When the mistake is fixed, the stove changes dramatically. Nick seems happy but i worry that he is leaving a lot on the table. I dont normally worry about cat temps but I would expect a much higher gauge reading on Nick's.

Don't be so quick to assume, you know what that does....

 

[blueguy]

The pipe IS fully seated. Before I lit anything, I verified this by sticking my head into the firebox and looking with a flashlight up through the bypass. If you go to ICC's website and look up the dimensions of their adapter, you will see that the lower portion sticks into the stove only about 1" before the visible flare in the drawing will seat onto the top of the stove collar in the same manner that a standard length would seat into the next length below it. My pipe is seated a little over 1.125" into the collar before the flare seats - the pipe doesn't go all the way down to the bottom of the collar. A slip section with no flare goes all the way down / bottoms out and doesn't contact what you're calling "the blob". FWIW, the blob doesn't actually protrude out into the collar enough to affect the fit - that pic into the collar is a little deceiving.

Additionally, the stove collar on Sirocco 30s is ~3" tall, whereas your Princess Ultra's is only ~2" tall which explains why the joint on mine sticks up above the convection deck. After confirming that the current way it is installed met WETT and the manufacturer requirements, I decided to live with the odd look until spring.

The smoke smell seems to be coming out from the front of the convection deck, which is lower than the bottom of my outer pipe - which leads me to believe it's coming from either the probe hole or a section of door gasket. The smell also didn't occur until about 3 hours after the bypass was closed, and was not present throughout the entire burn, which I think excludes a shoddy seal between the stove collar and pipe. I crawled all around the stove last night with a high power light and the room lights off - and there was no sign of visible smoke nor any smell to the rear of the stove.

Edit: There was no smoke smell at all on Saturday when I was watching it like a hawk (and jumping up and down with joy over its performance )

For the sake of transparency, my setup isn't optimal, which is probably why I am seeing lower performance that yours - my wood is not the best, I have an exterior chimney that is 21' from stove top to cap (18' Class A and ~ 3' of Ultrablack connector) and my first bend is 24" from the stove top. In the spring once some of the snow is off my roof, I am going buy a cheap 4' single wall pipe and see if extending the chimney gets me better performance. I'm also going to have a look at addressing the 24" of connector pipe before the first bend, to include a slip section that bottoms out in the flue collar.

 

[rdust]

Even after grinding my flue collar weld down some I added furnace cement to ensure I had a good seal on the appliance adapter. I will say my M&G appliance adapter fit/s like crap!

 

[Quentin2]

I just reread this - you're using a slip section mated to the stove?

I bought the adjustable pipe with slip and connected that to stove, I guess the top part (female) is considered the slip, so technically no the slip is not connected to stove.

 

[Highbeam]

Other possible smoke exits are the bypass shaft penetration, and yes that cat meterhole. I sounds like your collar joint is as well sealed as it can be.

 

[blueguy]

I just got home from work, and stove is sitting at 250 and the cat into the inactive portion with a tiny bit of one split left.

I had another look around all the openings on the stove with a flashlight with no evidence of any leaking. What I did notice though when I looked around the probe hole was the hole looks to be about 3/8" dia for a 3/16" probe. There is a LOT of room around the probe. I'll give it another look when I reload here in a bit to see if I can positively see any smoke coming out.

 

[blueguy]

Even after grinding my flue collar weld down some I added furnace cement to ensure I had a good seal on the appliance adapter. I will say my M&G appliance adapter fit/s like crap!

Not sure if I want to use furnace cement yet - I'd like to keep the adjustable section removable from the collar to clean the pipe without removing the cat every time....although based on everything I've read here, I ordered up extra cat, door, glass and bypass gaskets in case I say f it

 

[blueguy]

Other possible smoke exits are the bypass shaft penetration, and yes that cat meterhole. I sounds like your collar joint is as well sealed as it can be.

I did the sniffer test along the top edge of the right side shield by the bypass shaft - no smoke smell. Also did the sniffer test along the front of the stove, not smelling anything yet.

I do have to wonder why the cat probe hole is oversized? Aside from possible fitment issues from a misaligned hole in the convection deck, I just cannot see any benefit. Although looking at the probe, it has a bit of a gasket on it, so I assume this would seal the hole when the convection deck isn't used.



I loaded the stove E-W as full as I could from what I had inside - I fit 11 nice sized splits in with a little room to spare that could have been filled with small splits if I had any inside. While waiting for the cat to come up to temp, I was getting a bit of a secondary show again on the left side of the firebox with another separate secondary show across the face of the cat. Closed the bypass at 6:10 and set it at 1.5. I plan to turn it up to 2 for the night as temps drop

 

[blueguy]

Now how about that Ashford with a 4 cubic' box? I'd give you a pre-order today.

I was hoping for a Sirocco with a 4 cu ft box