The making of Pinetree Pellet Fuels Maine softwood pellets.. The Mill..

[DMKNLD]

I`m sure your ROI is years to come with all of that equipment and set up cost. I hope the state is giving you guys a tax break on a start up company or at least investing in your interest. They do campaign on job creation.

That's what one would think, but too often in our state it seems crony capitalism trumps small business entrepreneurial-ship. Projects like the PineTree Pellets Mill should be able to get financial support from state programs like the Maine New Markets Capital Investment program, which apparently was modeled after a Federal New Markets Tax program.

But it appears that restrictions on what companies these business development loans and tax breaks could go to were written into the ME legislation by the same lawyers and lobbyists whose investment firm stands to walk away with $16 million dollars of taxpayer money that funded the program, after moth-balling the paper mill they were supposedly resurrecting, with zero benefit to the state or the towns who are most impacted by the mill closures.

I would hope there are other existing funding resources to help PineTree Pellets get up and running, but I'm guessing that after losing 16 million bucks in taxpayer funding due to shady cigar smoke-filled backroom investment deals, the state will be leery of even any new legitimate mill related investment support legislation.

http://www.pressherald.com/2015/04/19/payday-at-the-mill/

 

[PinetreePellets]

As you know, dust can be explosive, so keep it clean!

That is priority #1, a clean house.

Will your pellets be available in western Massachusetts?

Hey JR, being a new mill, and a small one at that, we may not be in Mass our first year. It really is to early to say at this point. Stay posted!

 

[PinetreePellets]

That's what one would think, but too often in our state it seems crony capitalism trumps small business entrepreneurial-ship. Projects like the PineTree Pellets Mill should be able to get financial support from state programs like the Maine New Markets Capital Investment program, which apparently was modeled after a Federal New Markets Tax program.

But it appears that restrictions on what companies these business development loans and tax breaks could go to were written into the ME legislation by the same lawyers and lobbyists whose investment firm stands to make $16 million dollars of taxpayer money that funded the program, while we still have foreclosed paper mills and zero benefit to the state or the towns who are most impacted by the mill closures.

I would hope there are other existing funding resources to help PineTree Pellets get up and running, but I'm guessing that after losing 16 million bucks in taxpayer funding due to shady cigar smoke-filled backroom investment deals, the state will be leery of even any new legitimate mill related investment support legislation.

http://www.pressherald.com/2015/04/19/payday-at-the-mill/

Wow that is a crazy read, I had never read that or heard of the New Market Investment program, probably doesn't exist anymore would be my guess. To followup on your post, no we don't get direct financial support from the State of Maine, not like your post anyways. Maine does have some good tax incentives for manufacturing but nowhere near a 39% investment guarantee. No cash incentives, and honestly I didn't expect any, it would be nice the state wanted to help out (hint hint State of Maine ) but we are going though normal channels for financing as there is no other option in Maine.

David

 

[PinetreePellets]

Buying strategies seem to be a little different this year then in previous years, I am curious when people plan to purchase pellets. I am going to post a poll as I see a trend for earlier buying then in years past. The poll is at the link below.

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads...-your-pellets-for-next-heating-season.143536/

David

 

[DMKNLD]

No cash incentives, and honestly I didn't expect any, it would be nice the state wanted to help out (hint hint State of Maine ) but we are going though normal channels for financing as there is no other option in Maine

Hey David,

Your post poignantly addresses the polarization of the current "matches and gasoline" political and economic climate of Maine. For both sides of the political spectrum, it seems like it's more about scorched earth political ideology and class warfare fire breathing than it is about doing what's best economically for our State.

I guess the State's recently adopted but largely lip-serviced motto of "Open for Business" applies if you're an Armani suited lawyer or K-street lobbyist representing an out-of-state investment firm, that somehow is allowed to laugh all the way to the bank with $16 million dollars in taxpayer money. Apparently the inability to re-coup those losses or redirect that money to other legitimate economic development efforts is regarded as just collateral damage in the "cost of doing business" for the state.

But for a small business entrepreneur like you, willing to put your blood sweat and tears into an up-start alternative / renewable fuel production mill, who could use just 1% of that 16 million and return allot more value to the state for the investment, instead of being *open for business* it's more like, "well, good luck...." , "times are tough for everybody....", "maybe we can help you after we repeal the XYZ tax....", blah, blah, blah.

I'll end my political rant David, and instead wish you Godspeed and best of luck and success in your business *odyssey* ahead ! Know that I feel I speak for everybody on this forum, and especially all the fellow Maine-ahs on here, that we are all behind you 100% in your efforts.

Regards, Dennis

 

[chken]

That's what one would think, but too often in our state it seems crony capitalism trumps small business entrepreneurial-ship. Projects like the PineTree Pellets Mill should be able to get financial support from state programs like the Maine New Markets Capital Investment program, which apparently was modeled after a Federal New Markets Tax program.

But it appears that restrictions on what companies these business development loans and tax breaks could go to were written into the ME legislation by the same lawyers and lobbyists whose investment firm stands to make $16 million dollars of taxpayer money that funded the program, while we still have foreclosed paper mills and zero benefit to the state or the towns who are most impacted by the mill closures.

I would hope there are other existing funding resources to help PineTree Pellets get up and running, but I'm guessing that after losing 16 million bucks in taxpayer funding due to shady cigar smoke-filled backroom investment deals, the state will be leery of even any new legitimate mill related investment support legislation.

http://www.pressherald.com/2015/04/19/payday-at-the-mill/

Pathetic. The state should refuse to pay, and force the shysters to sue for their credits. Even if Maine taxpayers have to pay, I want the shysters in NH and Louisiana shamed publicly, not to mention the Maine lawmakers responsible for putting in a program with poor oversight. How can you offer tax credits to someone with no tax obligation, and then offer payment out of the general fund without someone realizing that was an opportunity for a professional scam. A sham transaction shouldn't hold up in court.

 

[DMKNLD]

How can you offer tax credits to someone with no tax obligation, and then offer payment out of the general fund without someone realizing that was an opportunity for a professional scam.

With so much flame throwing / scorched earth political rhetoric going on from both sides of the political aisle now in Augusta, no surprise that this is the result. When the two other investment firms pulled their 30 million out of the deal and broke off with Cate Street Capital, that should have been the first clue. Follow the campaign donation money trail, and no doubt the trail of crumbs from CSC lead back to many of the legislators most influential in drafting and passing the New Market legislation.

So it's not surprising now that the press has taken this and run with it, just how much the Maine legislators with their finger prints on this, like cockroaches scurrying in the light of day, are scrambling to distance themselves and deflect responsibility from this Cate Street Capital ponzi scheme.

Plenty of blame to go around - the D's and R's on the committee that drafted and approved the New Market legislation, the Finance Authority of Maine that recommended it, and our fiscally polarizing / micro-managing / self-proclaimed 'buck stops on my desk' (until it doesn't, apparently) Governor.

 

[boo boo]

And now back to the building of a new pellet mill

 

[St_Earl]

it's somewhat related in as much as the firm alluded to was operating in this same area.
in that regard, a mention makes sense, as long as is doesn't derail this fine thread.
but yes, the new pellet mill is more pleasant and much more interesting of a topic.
besides being the actual thread subject.

 

[DOLLARBILL]

Good Luck to your new venture! i welcome a start up that will feed the Maine ecomony and produce a quality product! ! Dave I live just south of Augusta will it be possible to come up and see your operation this summer makes for a great bike ride ! also will you be selling direct to the public ? Id love to say Im buying from a local source if the product is 5 star ! Again good luck !

 

[PinetreePellets]

Good Luck to your new venture! i welcome a start up that will feed the Maine ecomony and produce a quality product! ! Dave I live just south of Augusta will it be possible to come up and see your operation this summer makes for a great bike ride ! also will you be selling direct to the public ? Id love to say Im buying from a local source if the product is 5 star ! Again good luck !

Thanks DOLLARBILL!! As far as coming up I generally don't like to put the chicken before the egg but a buddy who introduced me to Hearth.com made a suggestion that I have an open house of sorts for the folks here on Hearth. I think it is a fantastic idea and once we get closer to a complete mill and have all the tweaks worked out I would love to have any and everyone who would be interested in checking out the mill come by. I will need to run it by Jim (Hearth.com owner) and see if I can't fly him out to as i think that would complete the circle.

Pinetree Pellet Fuels will be a direct to consumer mill as much as possible. Our goal is to stay small so we can have personal relationships with our customers and any concerns they might have. If someone is short on cash for a week and needs a few bags to get them through the week till payday we want to be there to help spot them till payday. That is what Mainers do.

Story behind our business philosophy.
We grew up poor and my (single) mom had her car breakdown and she didn't have the money to repair it and a local auto repair shop offered to fix her car and said to just make payments when she could. I will never forget that moment as my mom broke down in tears and 20 years later my respect for this repair shop still continues for that one simple gesture.

That is how we plan on running Pinetree Pellet Fuels, will help the little guy before we help fatten the big box stores pockets.

David

 

[PinetreePellets]

My very first pellet mill that started my pellet mill dreams, got this in 2008. Its a flat die mill, not practical for commercial production, but figured i'd drag it out and take a pic. These mills are not ment for wood, but was fun to play with and test different raw materials. Weirdest thing we put through it, cow dung

 

[Pete Zahria]

My very first pellet mill that started my pellet mill dreams,

VERY high tech

Dan

 

[PinetreePellets]

VERY high tech

Dan

and by high tech you mean POS, you are correct But I will always keep it, wonder if i can frame it and put it on the wall.. lol

 

[boo boo]

Weirdest thing we put through it, cow dung

What were the BTU`s with that test
Or was that BT Pews

 

[PinetreePellets]

What were the BTU`s with that test
Or was that BT Pews

The smell wasn't terrible, not that i'd recommend it. We threw them in the fire pit and they burned, wasn't brave enough to try them in my Mt Vernon

 

[Pete Zahria]

and by high tech you mean POS, you are correct But I will always keep it, wonder if i can frame it and put it on the wall.. lol

I think I would have it someplace in your factory, where people could see it.. hang a sign on it.... "Backup Machine"...

Dan

 

[bogieb]

Hey, bison dung (or other herbivore dung, depending on the region/continent), has been used throughout time as a source of heat for those living on the plains/steppes since they didn't have much wood - and what was there was more valuable for other uses. Heck, I would try it in the Harman if it was pelletized.

 

[SidecarFlip]

Anything will burn if you get it hot enough....

 

[batchman]

I think I would have it someplace in your factory, where people could see it.. hang a sign on it.... "Backup Machine"

Or perhaps, "Don't try this at home, kids!"

Best of luck to you, David, from a guy who keeps eying the endless supply of leaves and acorns each fall...
- Jeff

 

[bogieb]

Or perhaps, "Don't try this at home, kids!"

Best of luck to you, David, from a guy who keeps eying the endless supply of leaves and acorns each fall...
- Jeff

Compressed leaves, that would be great. Or even having someone take the endless supply of willow limbs that fall off the tree in my yard everyday. Of course getting that wood dry enough would be a real bear.

 

[kofkorn]

and by high tech you mean POS, you are correct But I will always keep it, wonder if i can frame it and put it on the wall.. lol

It looks like you could make it into an nice lamp for you office

 

[PinetreePellets]

It looks like you could make it into an nice lamp for you office

Thing must weigh 150lbs.. heck of a lamp..lol.. Think I'll keep her in our front office/customer area in glass, behind a laser beam detection system with glass shatter acoustic alarm, was gonna go with 2 armed body guard but figured that was overkill

 

[PinetreePellets]

So went to a great seminar on Tuesday in Raymond about all the different types of "alternative" fuels, power sources, etc. Anyone there from this forum by chance?

Would LOVE to make our mill 100% carbon neutral or as close to it as possible. Would be a big task but would benefit both the end consumer and the environment. It is not something we are focusing on now, but see adding it to our facility down the road either with PV or Wind power to offset our consumption to make the pellets. Imagine a LEED certified biofuel facility, now how cool would that be.

 

[bogieb]

I'd love to go with solar or wind power for my house, but it isn't worth it. So far, even with the tough winter we had, and running 2 pellet stoves, my electric tops was $98. I'm the only one here and I don't use air conditioning (don't even know if it works in this house), so it is 45-55 in summer. Stove, HW heater and FHW boiler are propane (and I use ~150 in propane per year).

So, even if I used $100/month in electricity (that is a stretch) and I put in a windmill or solar system at $15,000 (conservative estimate), then it would take me 12.5 years to get a payback. And that is IF I never had to put a dime into the system (doubtful) and never had to buy electricity for any reason.