Could radically affect the cost of ownership to have to use the dealer all the time. Depending on frequency of issues.
Tesla Model 3 Parked in Our Garage
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lsucet
Minister of Fire
All diy is going away with EVs. High voltage is not something to take so lightly. You need to know what you are doing and have the proper gear to work on it. Regardless it is a Tesla, Chevy, Ford etc, consumers will have way less interaction. if any.
Ashful
Minister of Fire
What is the operating or primary bus voltage on these things?
The stored energy in this much battery is downright frightening.
Depends on the vehicle. Could be 280 to 400v. The stored energy behind a home electrical panel is more impressive.
lsucet
Minister of Fire
It varies like begreen said but the funny part is the isolation process to can work safe. Just unplugging the disconnect don't give you the okay. Requires special/expensive DVM that reads isolation. Many modules can keep the capacitors charged for a long time or if it is defective. Once isolation is done it is okay to work on it. The things is there is nothing in there for consumers to fix unless you know what you are doing. Is not like you can go to an auto part places and buy parts.
SpaceBus
Minister of Fire
Electric cars will be easier for consumers than any gas engine. ICE drivetrains are super complicated with hundreds of moving parts. As long as the proper precautions are taken EVs are no more dangerous than an ICE car. Plenty of folks have died or had serious injuries working on cars. Lots of hazardous chemicals on board ICE vehicles as well.
When I was in automotive school some previous classes made an all electric Ford Ranger (pre OBDII vintage) and were working on an electric 240SX drag car.
There also shouldn't be much if any need to mess with the high voltage components of an EV. How often do you remove fuel lines and remove engine components on an ICE? The most common vehicle maintenance item specific to and ICE vehicle is an oil change. What is there to do on the EV? The most efficient gas engines now need regular cleaning of the intake valves to remove oil and carbon deposits. It's not like the typical owner is performing this level of maintenance.
When I was in automotive school some previous classes made an all electric Ford Ranger (pre OBDII vintage) and were working on an electric 240SX drag car.
There also shouldn't be much if any need to mess with the high voltage components of an EV. How often do you remove fuel lines and remove engine components on an ICE? The most common vehicle maintenance item specific to and ICE vehicle is an oil change. What is there to do on the EV? The most efficient gas engines now need regular cleaning of the intake valves to remove oil and carbon deposits. It's not like the typical owner is performing this level of maintenance.
Ashful
Minister of Fire
We’ve already proven the members of this forum aren’t the most “typical” owners of anything. [emoji14]
As to the stored energy, there are some caveats there, begreen. A shorted line downstream of your AC main will always trip the main, and will never cause a chemical explosion, the way a wrench across a battery can. Also, AC is far less hazardous to the technician, for both no-let-go issues and stored charge issues (AC circuits tend to not have large capacitors without bleed-down discharge means).
Like any new tech, folks will adapt. I’m forever impressed with what motivated people figure out, whether they went to school for it, or not. Since I do the sparky stuff for a living, I have no trepidation there.
CaptSpiff
Minister of Fire
I think you mean most corner auto repair shops will go away. And that's already happening due to the manufacturer's proprietary practices. And yes, Tesla is the king of this.
But home DIY will likely continue. Just last month I was doing front brakes on the F150 and noticed the bottom turn of my front passenger coil spring was broken. I finished the brakes, went back to the computer, watched a few YouTube videos, ordered a pair of "loaded struts", penciled in next Sat in the garage. I really didn't want to do the job, but the local Firestone center estimated $976 for both struts. RockAuto sent me the same Monroe struts for $240 incl tax and shipping. That type of diy maintenance will continue long after the fleet is EV.
I'm reading that manufacturers are exploring 800v battery systems to get the motor HP up and the rapid recharging rates down.
lsucet
Minister of Fire
There are some things that always consumer will be able to do but each days are less and less. You need some certified gears and have knowledge to deal with the high voltage on these cars. Special rubber gloves are a must and in a good working condition plus electronic equipments. ICE cars are not going away at all for long time. We already have info and getting trained of many technologies in the future for ICE vehicles. EVs have just a small market at this point and it will stays like that for long time. Most of the EV consumers can afford repairs and maintenance done by dealers and certified places. They are not vehicles for everyone.
There have been many deaths due to work on home electric circuits. Lots of ways to die there. It's kind of a moot point of whether you are killed by a 110v circuit that went through your body to ground or 400 v working on a car. My point is that access to these home circuits is much more possible than it is in an electric car. Then there is the stored energy potential for a tank of gasoline of about 700 kWh.
Mostly it's the amperage that kills you. As a youth I was zapped by capacitor discharge for a CRT of several thousand volts. And also from a 1000v oil burner transformer. I'm still here and lucky. The shock was just through my hand and not my body to ground.
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Trying not to veer too much here but...
I got shocked so hard once by an automotive ignition system that I was temporarily deaf in one ear for a while - scary.
Electricity is kind of like nuclear as a threat - not readily perceived until its too late.
Most hazards from an ICE vehicle tend to give you some warning first, usually a smelly or noisy one.
I got shocked so hard once by an automotive ignition system that I was temporarily deaf in one ear for a while - scary.
Electricity is kind of like nuclear as a threat - not readily perceived until its too late.
Most hazards from an ICE vehicle tend to give you some warning first, usually a smelly or noisy one.
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SpaceBus
Minister of Fire
maple1
Minister of Fire
Those Model S cars where 75 to 120K new. So it seems like they have depreciated quickly. Most late model low mile used are from low 30s to mid 40s .
My maintenance regime to date on both the Chevy Bolt and Tesla Model 3: add air to tires, fill the windshield washer vessel. The Tesla is due for a tire rotation.
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True, but the answer might be better understood through use of Ohm's Law. Google searches indicate amperage of 100-200ma (0.1 to 0 .2 amps) is enough to kill a person. Approximate electrical resistance (ohms) of a human body through dry skin is about 500 ohms. The formula is Amps = Volts / Ohms.
Amps through good contact with dry skin on a human body with a 12V car battery is 12/500 = 0.024, which is enough to feel a shock. Many people probably would not feel a shock with a 12V battery due to poor electrical contact with the skin. I have felt a pretty good shock from a 9V device battery if I wet my skin at the contact points.
However, with a 400V battery the current is 400/500 = 0.8 amps, definitely more than enough to kill. Most people would elect not to due their own wiring in a home, both on 110-120V circuits but especially on 220-240V circuits. And that would be a good decision, and it would be a very good decision not to work on the high voltage circuits of an electric vehicle.
SpaceBus
Minister of Fire
Sorry, maple. Lots of pictures posted on various sites are available. BTW, my wife's 81 year old friend asked to drive the Tesla a couple of days ago. After the drive she said that she is going to buy one. Should know soon if she follows through. I think a person of any age, but especially an elder, is missing a real golden age opportunity if they don't buy or lease a quality BEV.
Learned yesterday that she put in her order for a black Model 3, dual motor, AWD. One savvy lady and one awesome car.
Where2
Feeling the Heat
If you have the coins for one, why not? As many (including my own parents) have proven, you can't take it with you... Is she looking to adopt any children or grandchildren to inherit that beauty? I can offer up my sister for adoption.
My sister wants an EV, but isn't willing to pony up for the Model X to cart her family around in... I'm finding this whole driving on batteries is a hoot, especially when I can recharge them with the PV array! I haven't been to a gas station in over a month...
SpaceBus
Minister of Fire
If you have the coins for one, why not? As many (including my own parents) have proven, you can't take it with you... Is she looking to adopt any children or grandchildren to inherit that beauty? I can offer up my sister for adoption.
I'm finding this whole driving on batteries is a hoot, especially when I can recharge them with the PV array! I haven't been to a gas station in over a month...
The model X is a drool worthy car with a drool worthy price.
Ashful
Minister of Fire
I wonder how Nikola would feel about all of this, someone profiting immensely off his name, knowing a bit of his ethics.
In any case, is it model “ex” or model 10? I’ve found no authority on its pronunciation.
I’ve never seen one, but reviews have not been fantastic for an $80k+ car. Most of the criticism seems to be the interior, the handling and acceleration are supposed to be very good, no surprise.
In any case, is it model “ex” or model 10? I’ve found no authority on its pronunciation.
I’ve never seen one, but reviews have not been fantastic for an $80k+ car. Most of the criticism seems to be the interior, the handling and acceleration are supposed to be very good, no surprise.
SpaceBus
Minister of Fire
It's hard to trust reviews anymore. The only parts I really care about when reading reviews, for any product really, are verification of manufacturer specs/claims and good quality photos and videos of the product in real life. Even car reviews by professional automotive magazine writers are just white noise to me now. Maybe I'm just getting old.
lsucet
Minister of Fire
I have two friends in California, one in San Diego and the other LA area. They have the model X and they love them. When I never actually drive it cause we went to an early lunch and were just playing catch-up, I was , like a passenger impressed. Don't know about gadgets etc but it is a dream. It was about 40 minutes round trip and quick cause I have to comeback and be at work next day ( Monday morning ). I just went to pick up some horses. The self driving is awesome. All I know is the loaded one with all kind the things and battery range etc.
The only time that I feel that power that pull me into the seat is when I drive a SRT of a Hell Cat for drivability concern and I am trying to duplicate concern. All in all it was a wonderful experience.
The only time that I feel that power that pull me into the seat is when I drive a SRT of a Hell Cat for drivability concern and I am trying to duplicate concern. All in all it was a wonderful experience.
lsucet
Minister of Fire
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