Stove still starved for air
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Yes, the collar and the liner are 6 inches.
Interesting point about the weather. It was cold this morning, which is why I lit the stove (just supplemental heat), but by early afternoon, when I was watching the fire closely, I hadn't realized it had warmed up outside quite a bit. Still cool, maybe high 50's, but as KennyC says, it might just a be a bit too warm.
This might be dangerous to say on this forum, but isn't it possible, just maybe, that the stove is designed with an air intake a bit too restrictive? In other words, for any install less than ideal (ie. requiring one or two elbows), the stove can't get enough air, even with the intake fully open?
Interesting point about the weather. It was cold this morning, which is why I lit the stove (just supplemental heat), but by early afternoon, when I was watching the fire closely, I hadn't realized it had warmed up outside quite a bit. Still cool, maybe high 50's, but as KennyC says, it might just a be a bit too warm.
This might be dangerous to say on this forum, but isn't it possible, just maybe, that the stove is designed with an air intake a bit too restrictive? In other words, for any install less than ideal (ie. requiring one or two elbows), the stove can't get enough air, even with the intake fully open?
Methinks the stove is designed with regards to the expected draw from the chimney. Also if a stove was made with too large of an intake, that could create possible dangerous conditions in some homes. So, no, I don't think the stove was designed with an air intake too restrictive. But your situation really has me puzzled.
I'm not familiar with your Englander, but my chimney is tad short for my RSF so I drilled out the intake for the doghouse (zipper) air. Actually, I added an adjuster so I can have more or less than what was stock.
It was 54 degrees just before sundown when I lit off the 30 for the first time this year. Some little poplar splits and Vanessa's bows on top. Lit the match to a bow, closed the door and let her go. This is a pic ten minutes later. Drafting like a Hoover. Right now it is cruising with three oak splits three quarters shut down at 550 with the flames whipping like a gas stove.
The chimney is an uninsulated 5.5" liner in a outside masonry chimney 21' tall from the top of the stove.
It ain't a design problem. That much I can tell ya that. Try loading it North/South and see what happens. That is the only way I burn in it.
The chimney is an uninsulated 5.5" liner in a outside masonry chimney 21' tall from the top of the stove.
It ain't a design problem. That much I can tell ya that. Try loading it North/South and see what happens. That is the only way I burn in it.
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BrotherBart said:
BrotherBart--your install is so much like mine. In fact, my chimney is taller, so if anything should draft better, yes? The only difference is the two elbows I have. It's hard to believe they could make that much difference. But that's the allowed configuration in the manual for a masonry flue.
LLigetfa said:
Ah. The answer I was waiting for. Somehow I see such an operation happening in the future.
Though if anyone has a good reason I shouldn't, please say so.
Yeah that chimney is probably fine. My bet is that it is the wood and/or the way you are loading the stove. All I can tell ya is how I do it.
- Three three inch or so dry Poplar splits N/S with four or five E/W on top of them and a half dozen or so of the newspaper bows everybody gets such a laugh from piled on top.
- Light two bow and close the door.
- After the Poplar has turned to large coals and the stove top has come down to around 400-450 I load three oak split in N/S and close the door again with the air all the way open until the stove crosses back over 450 stove top temp and then close the air down to fifty percent. At 500 to 550 I close it to seventy five percent and let'er burn.
The problem of diagnosing anything over the Internet is that we can't see exactly what ya got or what your are doing with it.
- Three three inch or so dry Poplar splits N/S with four or five E/W on top of them and a half dozen or so of the newspaper bows everybody gets such a laugh from piled on top.
- Light two bow and close the door.
- After the Poplar has turned to large coals and the stove top has come down to around 400-450 I load three oak split in N/S and close the door again with the air all the way open until the stove crosses back over 450 stove top temp and then close the air down to fifty percent. At 500 to 550 I close it to seventy five percent and let'er burn.
The problem of diagnosing anything over the Internet is that we can't see exactly what ya got or what your are doing with it.
dave11 said:
A good reason is that it does not need it. That stove has plenty of unregulated intake air available to the "doghouse" port in the front of it. Enough to scare the hell out of you with a good load of dry wood.
With over a dozen regular forum members burning hot in 30-NC stoves you have no reason to go melting yours down by altering it.
BrotherBart said:
The wood checks fine with the moisture meter, and it burns right off, so I'm not sure what else could be wrong with the wood.
I agree about the trouble giving advice online, but it's all there is. Even the sweep I used, who's known as "the guy to get" around here, doesn't know a fraction of what you folks know. He would have happily put in a 5 inch liner--and we almost got into a fight about it. The local shops here are keen to sell expensive stoves, but never impressed me they knew or cared how wood was burned in them.
We noobs appreciate you folks taking the time to help.
I saw some of the same issues that you are having last year when I got my NC30. I only have 14ft of chimney on mine and have no issues now. What I have learned is dry wood is premium, and early year fires I struggled with also. Most importantly the way I start my first fire is to stack very open with small splits stacked like lincoln logs, once that fire is established I have no issues, and always goes perfect when burning 24/7.
BrotherBart said:
Okay, okay. I surrender.
I have huge piles of aging maple and poplar and dogwood in the shed. I will hunt through them for the driest wood, split it even smaller, check it carefully with the meter, and try burning as you recommended.
I am not a NC user, but is there an knockout on the back/bottom of the stove for an OAK, or hole for non OAK that would prevent the air from getting to the ? "dog house" ? the user has not ndicated if this was an OAK setup, if it is, check for mice, squirrels in the OAK etc
Seems to me if the stove drafts great with the door cracked, and the wood is dry, then the issue maybe primary air getting into the stove?
Seems to me if the stove drafts great with the door cracked, and the wood is dry, then the issue maybe primary air getting into the stove?
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