Received 2nd cord of wood and came up short.

[mbcijim]

I did receive my second of 4 cord of wood yesterday and stacked it all in 90 degree heat and humidity today. The amount was 18.62 cubic feet shortof a full cord so I called the seller. He came by and tried to prove that the original cord was over sized.He proceeded to explain his math calculations to me; armed with a calculator, pencil and raft of paper. Once I looked at his calculations it was apparent that he had been using 1.4 feet as a multiplier for a 16" cut log.I tried for an hour to explain that feet and inches needed to changed to a decimal equivalent,ergo, 1.33 feet. We went round and round and he insisted that when figured in inches the amount came to more than 128 cubic feet. I was very patient with the guy, an 18 year old young man. I tryed to explain that base 10 equations needed to be put into base ten terms. Apparently he , his partner and his father had been using the same formula to calculate cord wood. Unfortunately the poor guy was still baffeled as to why 4" on his tape didn't equal 0.4 as a multiplier. So I tried to give him a mini math lesson with 1/4's, 1/2's, 1/3's, etc. It was very frustrating.
I did tell him to check with a 3rd party that was somewhat conversant in math. He just came by to complete the missing section of my 2nd cord. He was still saying how his calculations added to more that 128 cubic feet, until I pointed out to him that the start of the pile was 4" high and it tapered down to 3-1/2' at the end. The pile is 26' in length. I then tried to explain the process of interpolation, but the poor boy was lost again. I told him I would buy no more wood from him if he thought I was taking advantage of him...because if I was to sell out it wouldn't be for the price of a few feet of cordwood. He finally said I was much smarter in math so he would take my word for it. Again I said no, and that he should understand the precision and honesty of simple math. He did finally admit that I was getting a square deal for the offered price. I guess I got my fair deal, but I wonder if other people buying his fire wood will be so lucky.

Just a slice of life

JPapiPE,

Does the PE mean Professional Engineer?

If you were trying to explain fractions to the young man using words like interpolation, and Base Ten, well, you were complicating matters. I took a few 400 level college math classes 10 years ago and have an engineering degree and I don't remember what Base Ten means. I remember interpolation, but I'd guess 75% of the public doesn't. Next time try simplifying things more. I know that wasn't the reason for your posts, but hopefully my comments will help you get your point across easier next time.

 

[RedRanger]

I did receive my second of 4 cord of wood yesterday and stacked it all in 90 degree heat and humidity today. The amount was 18.62 cubic feet shortof a full cord so I called the seller. He came by and tried to prove that the original cord was over sized.He proceeded to explain his math calculations to me; armed with a calculator, pencil and raft of paper. Once I looked at his calculations it was apparent that he had been using 1.4 feet as a multiplier for a 16" cut log.I tried for an hour to explain that feet and inches needed to changed to a decimal equivalent,ergo, 1.33 feet. We went round and round and he insisted that when figured in inches the amount came to more than 128 cubic feet. I was very patient with the guy, an 18 year old young man. I tryed to explain that base 10 equations needed to be put into base ten terms. Apparently he , his partner and his father had been using the same formula to calculate cord wood. Unfortunately the poor guy was still baffeled as to why 4" on his tape didn't equal 0.4 as a multiplier. So I tried to give him a mini math lesson with 1/4's, 1/2's, 1/3's, etc. It was very frustrating.
I did tell him to check with a 3rd party that was somewhat conversant in math. He just came by to complete the missing section of my 2nd cord. He was still saying how his calculations added to more that 128 cubic feet, until I pointed out to him that the start of the pile was 4" high and it tapered down to 3-1/2' at the end. The pile is 26' in length. I then tried to explain the process of interpolation, but the poor boy was lost again. I told him I would buy no more wood from him if he thought I was taking advantage of him...because if I was to sell out it wouldn't be for the price of a few feet of cordwood. He finally said I was much smarter in math so he would take my word for it. Again I said no, and that he should understand the precision and honesty of simple math. He did finally admit that I was getting a square deal for the offered price. I guess I got my fair deal, but I wonder if other people buying his fire wood will be so lucky.

Just a slice of life

JPapiPE,

Does the PE mean Professional Engineer?

If you were trying to explain fractions to the young man using words like interpolation, and Base Ten, well, you were complicating matters. I took a few 400 level college math classes 10 years ago and have an engineering degree and I don't remember what Base Ten means. I remember interpolation, but I'd guess 75% of the public doesn't. Next time try simplifying things more. I know that wasn't the reason for your posts, but hopefully my comments will help you get your point across easier next time.

Some sanity at last!! Mercy :cheese:

 

[brooktrout]

What's up with all the "Mercys"? Are we expecting the wrath of the wood god soon?

 

[SteveT]

One of them is 20ft long and 4ft high, that would equal 80 cu.ft. but it is 18" length. so I add on another 40cu.ft which makes it 120 cu.ft. Only slightly shy of a full cord. but is my math correct? Or am I just aging too rapidly?

20 feet long and 4 feet high is 80 square feet, not cubic feet; you need all three dimensions for volume (height*width*depth).

I guess you were assuming logs at 1 foot and then adding 50% since they are really 1.5 feet? Then you got to the correct result in an unconventional way.

The correct way is 20*4*1.5 -- this will work for any log length; convert length to a feet as a decimal (such as use 1.67 feet for 20 inches).

 

[Ken45]

I would not expect that an 18 year old selling wood to be a math major. And we know that a lot of today's schools are not teaching all that well.

As for the base ten (yikes!):
There are 10 types of people in the world, those that understand binary, and those that don't.
;-)

It's a good thing you didn't throw a hex(adecimal) on him!

Ken

 

[savageactor7]

The cubic calculations can throw a lot of people off that's mostly why I think dealing with face cords makes sense. I know I'm fighting a losing battle here and I accept I have the live in the world as it exists. Just say'en is all.

 

[Jerry_NJ]

Dealing with "Face Cords" is fine, as long as we know how deep (length of split) it is. Then if we/anyone wants to convert to cost per full cord (128 cf) they can do it.

The problem with the simple math for the "wood cutter" is to tell them to divide the inches by 12 to get the number of feet in decimal. Not needed for lengths of whole feet, just use the whole feet numbers. Then multiply HxWxD and you've got the cubic feet. As for "base ten", that's the decimal system we all use every day, it has ten whole divisions 0, 1, 2, ...9 Our measuring system is also base ten, it just defines a unit called a foot, and one called a yard, etc. that are not multiples or sub-multiples of ten.

 

[Jags]

As for the base ten (yikes!):
There are 10 types of people in the world, those that understand binary, and those that don't.


Ken

Bahhaaa ha, ha, now that was funny. Thanks for the laugh Ken. I've never seen it "expressed" that way before.

Thats been one of the "highs" of my day.

 

[Adios Pantalones]

I'm picturing Jethro Bodeen doing math on this one...

"carry the naught..."

 

[BrotherBart]

I would not expect that an 18 year old selling wood to be a math major. And we know that a lot of today's schools are not teaching all that well.

As for the base ten (yikes!):
There are 10 types of people in the world, those that understand binary, and those that don't.
;-)

It's a good thing you didn't throw a hex(adecimal) on him!

Ken

I work in Binary and dream in Hex but every since the chainsaw accident I count in Octal.

 

[fossil]

I count on my fingers, but since my accident I can only go up to nine at a time. Rick

 

[Adios Pantalones]

I can count to 21 before I need a calculator... that is since I said adios to the pantalones.

 

[MishMouse]

I had the same problem while attempting to help one of my nephews in math.
He swore up and down that 2/3 of a cup was greater then .75 of a cup.
He said I was wrong due to the fact that I used the "old method" of doing math, and that today
they use a new method of doing math, even when I gave him a visual demonstration using measuring cups he still wasn't convinced.

I blame it on the calculator and teachers who are to lazy to teach, hey if it says it in the book then it can't be wrong.
They are the ones that give teachers a bad name.

 

[Adios Pantalones]

You could just get a measuring cup with a 2/3 and a 3/4 on it and point it out. These things frustrate the heck out of me. This one could be headed for the ash bin

 

[fossil]

You could just get a measuring cup with a 2/3 and a 3/4 on it and point it out.

Nah, he'd just hold it upside down and say, "See?". :lol: Rick

 

[Adios Pantalones]

LOL- the real pessimist would tell you "See- 2/3 is more empty"

 

[Jags]

I would not expect that an 18 year old selling wood to be a math major. And we know that a lot of today's schools are not teaching all that well.

As for the base ten (yikes!):
There are 10 types of people in the world, those that understand binary, and those that don't.
;-)

It's a good thing you didn't throw a hex(adecimal) on him!

Ken

I work in Binary and dream in Hex but every since the chainsaw accident I count in Octal.

So you lost 11 (b) digits in that accident, eh?

 

[MishMouse]

Base 10 is easy as 101010111100
:cheese:

 

[BrotherBart]

So you lost 11 (b) digits in that accident, eh?

Just two fingers. I keep my pants and shoes on when I count. ;-)

 

[fossil]

...There are 10 types of people in the world, those that understand binary, and those that don't.

Some days I feel like a one, but then my wife always reminds me that I'm a zero. Rick

 

[Jags]

So you lost 11 (b) digits in that accident, eh?

Just two fingers. I keep my pants and shoes on when I count. ;-)

And hopefully when you are chainsawing :red:

 

[Jags]

...There are 10 types of people in the world, those that understand binary, and those that don't.

Some days I feel like a one, but then my wife always reminds me that I'm a zero. Rick

Your a 010 in my book Rick? ;-P

 

[JPapiPE]

No I did....I really did try to explain to this recent high school graduate one could not mix units or base systems. Yes the P.E. after my name does indicate I am a Registered, State of Maine Engineer. But I didn't pull any fancy language while trying to teach this boy how fractions and decimals are related.I only wanted to convince him he was not getting cheated. I drew pictures of rectangles and gave one the value of one foot then drew another the same size and divided it into 3rds and asked ...If the whole of this rectangle is cut into 3 equal parts....How much does 1/3 of this whole represent in inches? My student understood that each section was 4". Improper fractions aside the young man grasped this principle. I then tried to prove this with the ratio and proportion method...if 1/12 = X/16...simple linear algebraic equations ...8th grade math, He kept saying , yeah but ...the way I figure it in inches it comes out right. So I said no problem lets figure it out in inches. We did and came out to my original calculation. So he said Ok and came back with his truck full of wood and evened out the pile. He still couldn't leave without saying ,,,yeah but I calculated using your method and still came out more than 128 Cubic ft. Ok, I said, let me see your calculations.

He had adopted the new formulae, but had called the 26' long pile of wood 4' high, which it was 4' at one end and sloped ,in a straight line down to 3-1/2' at the other end. Thats where the interpolation comes in...or estimation if you'd rather. This was another hurdle, my fault for using strange words,....So I ended up lighting a fire and showing him via smoke signals and a few cave drawings, my logic... which he said he understood and accepted my logic.

But I did see his partner drive by several hours later with a full load of wood on...stop and stare at my pile. So i thought it was my delivery guy and called his cell # and asked if he had had a cancelation and did he want to drop off another cord? He called back in 5 minutes and said it wasn't him, so i know it was his partner as they have 2 identical trucks with boards above the dump section of the truck.

And Jeff, I can't lay claim to Cornish as I have only lived here 9 months and was a former resident of Portland.

Well at least they didn't come under cover of darkness and steal back the wood in question. What a lot of work...these guys are selling green wood for $250/ cord and calling it seasoned. I had explained earlier that seasoned wood is wood that had been cut and split and set to dry for at least 8 months. Not log length wood that had been cut 8+ months ago.
Quite a project...this wood thing

 

[sinnian]

And we know that a lot of today's schools are not teaching all that well.

Ken

And you know this how? Perhaps students and parents have a role in "schools are not teaching all that well".

 

[Ken45]

And we know that a lot of today's schools are not teaching all that well.

Ken

And you know this how? Perhaps students and parents have a role in "schools are not teaching all that well".

By the widely published performance stats. By the remedial work required in college. By the reported data that high schools are gradulating seniors who don't know the basics.

Oh, I agree parents have a definite role and it's impossible to teach in a classroom where behavior is horrible and parents back up the kids, not matter what. I still remember in high school one of the misbehaving kids being taken out in the hall and hear a few good whacks with a paddle.

But the bottom line is that schools are not doing the job that needs to be done. I didn't assign blame, just stated a fact.

BTW, I have a friend who has a letter from the school stating that his inability to spell is not his fault. They admit is was due to the "new" teaching techniques which were yet another failure.

Ken