Ready to Join The Gang - Time For a Wood Stove!

[begreen]

Not if the stove rear vented.

 

[Log Splitter]

What are some of the more commonly seen rear vented wood stoves?

I have to say, leaning very heavily towards Summit or Super insert at this point. Just trying to decide if the Summit is too large for my needs, and will take lots of fiddling to try and get a proper balance between load size and temperature.

 

[begreen]

The Jotul F55 is a large cast-iron jacketed stove like the Alderlea T6 but with a configurable rear flue collar that can be set to rear exit. Woodstock makes the somewhat odd looking Ideal Steel and the soapstone Progress Hybrid. Both of these stoves can be rear vented. The main thing is that the top of the horiz. pipe needs to fall below the fireplace lintel.

There are many threads on this topic with stove suggestions. Search on Rear Vent.

 

[Ashful]

Note Woodstocks are very good cat stoves, but being convective heaters, aren't ideal for a tucking back in a fireplace install.


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[begreen]

Agreed, the point of rear-vent stove vs the top vent would be to bring most of the stove forward out onto the hearth. The F55 and it's convection blower allows for a deeper installation.

 

[twd000]

That's a matter of perspective. From here, I'd say, yes.

If going the DIY route, you could easily do a pretty nice stove or insert with liner for less than $5k, and that doesn't limit your choice of stoves. Involving a pro, you'll probably be closer to $6k for the same. Going with a more budget-minded stove could still keep you under $5k, even with a pro install.

Poughkeepsie has a 10 year average of 6638 HDD's per year. You're running 900 gal / 1200 sq.ft., or 0.75 gal/sq.ft. Heating oil is around 140,000 BTU/gal, so assuming you're furnace is around 85% efficient, you're running about 13.45 BTU/HDD/sq.ft. That puts you around the 64th (eyeballing) percentile for energy use, among homes in the northeast, midwest, and west, as of 1997 survey.

So the advice to do some air sealing is good, but I'd do this in tandem with, not in lieu of installing a stove today. No reason one activity should interfere with the other.

can you point me to where you found this data? I would like to know how much energy I would expect to save by air-sealing the attic. I am burning 70 MBTU gross (52 MBTU net) in 3000 sq ft. 7300 Heating Degree Days

 

[Woody Stover]

can you point me to where you found this data? I would like to know how much energy I would expect to save by air-sealing the attic. I am burning 70 MBTU gross (52 MBTU net) in 3000 sq ft. 7300 Heating Degree Days

I think you want the attic to breath, as a lot of moisture ends up there. Or are you talking about air-sealing around light fixtures etc. that let warm air leave the living area?

 

[begreen]

can you point me to where you found this data? I would like to know how much energy I would expect to save by air-sealing the attic. I am burning 70 MBTU gross (52 MBTU net) in 3000 sq ft. 7300 Heating Degree Days

Good topic for the Green Room forum here.

 

[twd000]

I think you want the attic to breath, as a lot of moisture ends up there. Or are you talking about air-sealing around light fixtures etc. that let warm air leave the living area?

The latter. I have seen it referred to as "sealing the top plate" of the stud wall on the second floot


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[Log Splitter]

Decided to finally make my move! Thank you again to all the advice here.

I went with the Pacific Energy Summit. Probably a bigger box than I need, but it fits so I'll take those longer burn times. I was really intrigued by the idea of a cat-stove, as well as going with a free stander, but the wife is happier with the looks of this unit, and it would have kept me in the research phase far too long. I envision that this won't be my one and only purchase. Between the possibility of a free standing unit, along with toying with the idea of a cat-stove, I could see an upgrade, or even an addition in the future.

I'll continue to post pictures and updates of the install.

And now, on to the FAQ on how to most effectively use a wood stove

 

[iron]

one tidbit to add (and others may dispute):
cat stoves will have dark, black glass for most of the burn and you don't get to see flames. if flames are important, a non-cat will be better (i think)

FTR: i have a non-cat ZC fireplace. sometimes i dream of cat stoves, but can't have everything. i will say that EW loading is kind of lame.

 

[Ashful]

Decided to finally make my move! Thank you again to all the advice here.

Congratulations! You'll be thrilled with it. Woodburning is a lifestyle, just be careful to introduce the wife to it slowly. I can give you exacting, precise directions, on the wrong way to do it.

one tidbit to add (and others may dispute):
cat stoves will have dark, black glass for most of the burn and you don't get to see flames. if flames are important, a non-cat will be better (i think)

This is a half-truth. A cat stove will have plenty of flame show, like any non-cat, if burned at similar burn rate. What you're missing here is that the cat stove can also burn at much lower burn rates, outside the capability of any non-cat stove. It is at these very-low burn rates that the stove turns to a black box of radiating heat.

 

[Woody Stover]

Summit insert? And what finish?

 

[Log Splitter]

Summit insert? And what finish?

I went with the standard across the board. Metallic black door and beveled surround panel.

 

[nola mike]

I guess either way I go, I'll need to look up a bit more about how to effectively operate a wood stove based on the type of stove I'm using, and finding a balance between heat output, and optimizing efficiency.

To make sure that I'm following properly so far, the reason for your small burn yesterday was so when the wood was flaming, it was very hot and secondary burn in your non-cat was initiated. But this was only done for a short period of time to avoid the house overheating. As the wood continued to burn down, there was no longer a need for a secondary burn. And since it was warming up outside, the less heat the box began to give off was a desired side effect of the smaller burn.

The difference between this and had it been a cat stove would have been there would not have been that initial need to get that hot fire going to start since the Cat Stove would have been able to produce a secondary burn at a lower temp.

Not sure if this thought process is right, but that's my rudimentary understanding so far! I'll do a search to try and get a better understanding.

Yup, pretty much. If you have a smaller/hotter fire, you're going to have more of a swing in the room temp. The secondaries only are going for part of the cycle. Once the relatively volatile gasses burn off you burn pretty much smoke free anyway.

 

[begreen]

I went with the standard across the board. Metallic black door and beveled surround panel.

Congratulations, that is a good looking combo. Take pictures and get that wood ready.
PS: if you can draw a sketch of the floorplan we can help with some air distribution suggestions to move the heat. Is there a ceiling fan in the stove room?

 

[Log Splitter]

There is a ceiling fan in the dining room which is open to the living room. The living room is the one which will contain the stove. I'll sketch out a floor plan and post it.

 

[Log Splitter]

Quick, crude, not to scale sketch of the house.

The picture is taken with bank to bed #2. There is a half wall, and then a older style wood slat wall. I'm not sure how much this will imepede air flow down the hall. We have talked about removing them in the past, and this could certainly lead to a good reason to do so.

 

[Log Splitter]

And overall dimensions are roughly 50' long by 24' wide on the house.

 

[begreen]

The wall will impede "assisted" airflow somewhat.

Normally the simplest way to move the heat in this setup is to blow cool air from the hallway, down low, toward the stove. There are two issues in this layout with that plan: the blocking wall and the narrow hallway. A fan looks like it would be in the way even if only 12" wide.

The second option is with a ducted circulation fan system. Which way to the stairs go, up or down? Is there a basement?

 

[Log Splitter]

The wall will impede "assisted" airflow somewhat.

Normally the simplest way to move the heat in this setup is to blow cool air from the hallway, down low, toward the stove. There are two issues in this layout with that plan: the blocking wall and the narrow hallway. A fan looks like it would be in the way even if only 12" wide.

The second option is with a ducted circulation fan system. Which way to the stairs go, up or down? Is there a basement?

Stairs go down to basement.

And that's what the blue/red lines on the wall represent. Blue are the return ducts and red are where the forced air come out.

 

[begreen]

In that case a quiet inline fan (~150-200cfm) that is ducted to intake air from the far bedrooms and blow it into the stove room should work pretty well at improving heat circulation. The far br doors would need to have about 1" open on the bottom or a vent grille in their doors if the doors are normally kept shut. If they are normally open then this is not an issue.

 

[Log Splitter]

What's the difference between that, and simply the giant blower down in the basement that will take air from all of the intake ducts and circulate through the exhaust ducts?

In my image, that would be blue ducts to red ducts

 

[begreen]

What's the difference between that, and simply the giant blower down in the basement that will take air from all of the intake ducts and circulate through the exhaust ducts?

In my image, that would be blue ducts to red ducts

If all the ductwork, supply and return, is fully sealed and insulated then it might work. Otherwise it might cool down the air too much. In a nutshell, the issue is duct heat loss. Most hot air systems are lossy. That's ok when the air going into the ducts coming off the furnace is at 150º. Some loss, mostly to the basement, may actually be desirable. But when trying to recirculate room air at say 75º via the ductwork, losses to a 50F basement are undesirable and can actually cool down the air too much. Also, it uses more electricity to drive a 1/4 or 1/3d hp motor for hours on end.

 

[Woody Stover]

The difference between this and had it been a cat stove would have been there would not have been that initial need to get that hot fire going to start since the Cat Stove would have been able to produce a secondary burn at a lower temp

Oh, I still have to heat up the stove for a while to get it hot enough to light the cat. You never want a roaring fire, in any stove, to avoid over-firing of the stove and chimney. You want some lively flame, but the air cut sufficiently to build heat in the box. I always use my phone timer in the ramp-up phase, in case I get distracted. You can over-fire in a relatively short amount of time if you don't stay on top of it.

I could see an upgrade, or even an addition in the future.

Congrats, you're already talking like someone who's been on these forums for years.