Ready to Join The Gang - Time For a Wood Stove!

[Ashful]

I'd not jump too quickly into doing a ducted system, yet. I would run as-is for now, and just see how it works. If circulation ends up being as poor as we suspect, then remove the half wall. If it's still lacking, then try putting a fan on the floor back by bedrooms, pointed toward living room.

The ducted system would be the final solution, but you have many other things to figure out, before determining its necessity. For example, do you actually prefer the bedrooms being cooler than the living room. How will your traditional heating coexist with the stove? Most burners struggle with getting enough dry wood to make it thru the first year or two, so expecting to switch over to 100% wood heat on year one usually leads to much frustration on the first two years of burner and spouse. Baby steps.


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[Log Splitter]

I'd not jump too quickly into doing a ducted system, yet. I would run as-is for now, and just see how it works. If circulation ends up being as poor as we suspect, then remove the half wall. If it's still lacking, then try putting a fan on the floor back by bedrooms, pointed toward living room.

The ducted system would be the final solution, but you have many other things to figure out, before determining its necessity. For example, do you actually prefer the bedrooms being cooler than the living room. How will your traditional heating coexist with the stove? Most burners struggle with getting enough dry wood to make it thru the first year or two, so expecting to switch over to 100% wood heat on year one usually leads to much frustration on the first two years of burner and spouse. Baby steps.


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Agreed. There will definitely being some tinkering with the setup.

I think the bedrooms being at a -10 differential would likely be a desired side effect of this setup. If we can keep the living area at 75+, and then keep the bedrooms at 65+, I think we'll be good to go.

If the gap is larger, I imagine as Ashful has said, the wall will be the first thing to go. Then we'll see how much of a difference turning the main fan on makes. We can also look at install a ceiling fan in the living room, and then of course, figuring out some sort of floor flan from the hallway.

 

[brenndatomu]

If circulation ends up being as poor as we suspect, then remove the half wall. If it's still lacking, then try putting a fan on the floor back by bedrooms, pointed toward living room.

What about a small fan in/through that half wall?

 

[Log Splitter]

What about a small fan in/through that half wall?

Yes, this was actually what I was thinking too. Build something small into the bottom of the half wall so it wasn't just randomly sitting in the hallway.

 

[Ashful]

What about a small fan in/through that half wall?

I was mostly going off Log Splitter's earlier post, stating he and his wife have been debating removing that wall for a while, before the wood stove was even in the picture. Yes, a fan thru the wall might work very well, if they didn't want the wall gone.

 

[Log Splitter]

I was mostly going off Log Splitter's earlier post, stating he and his wife have been debating removing that wall for a while, before the wood stove was even in the picture. Yes, a fan thru the wall might work very well, if they didn't want the wall gone.

Sorry, I wasn't clear. Look up a few posts at the picture I showed:
https://www.hearth.com/talk/attachments/wood-wall-jpg.185756/

We would first remove the wood slats above the half wall, not the entire wall itself.....to see if that would make a difference. I didn't consider the entire wall, but I guess that wouldn't be terribly difficult too. We'd just be left with some wall patch work, and then have to see what type of floor mess we're looking at in that one spot.

That's a bit more invasive, so we'd probably be hesitant to do it without knowing if it was going to make a substantial difference.

 

[Log Splitter]

We're scheduled for install Friday!

When all is said and done:

$2700 - PE Summit
$500 - Install Materials
$775 - Labor

So we're looking at little over $4,000 after tax.

Anything I should keep an eye out for? Specific questions I should ask?

 

[begreen]

That's an inexpensive install. Seems like this may not include a block-off plate. Will the liner be insulated? Will the chimney get cleaned thoroughly first?

 

[Log Splitter]

That's an inexpensive install. Seems like this may not include a block-off plate. Will the liner be insulated? Will the chimney get cleaned thoroughly first?

They will assess when they're up there and will charge $50 more to clean if necessary.

They will not use a block off plate. The liner is also not an insulated liner. I did inquire about this. They said they could if I wanted, but they did not feel it was necessary in this situation.

I know the block off plate and liner insulation seem quite popular around here, so I will have to think a bit more about this. The block off plate is a project I can work on after the install, but the liner insulation is probably something that would be easier for them to do now if I chose to go that way.

 

[begreen]

The situation should be decided by safety and code first and then performance. Insulation is a very small premium to pay to will improve both.

Is the chimney in contact with the structure of the house at some points or separated by at least an inch?

 

[Log Splitter]

Attached is an image of the chimney.

 

[begreen]

Looks like it's in contact with the house but it's hard to tell. If this were my house I'd insulate the liner.

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[Ashful]

I've run liners both with and without insulation, two of them in the same chimney (at different times, not together). If your chimney is in proper working order, then there is no safety-based (CTC) reason to need insulation on your liner. In this case, the sole advantage of the insulation is that it may help keep the liner warmer, which has advantages for better draft and less creosote on stoves with super-low exhaust temperatures.

The block-off plate is something many here like to have, but very, very, very few installers seem to do. It's at least daily we read posts of folks who had liners installed without block-off plates. Again, there's usually no safety-based need for one, but they do provide the advantage of helping to keep the liner warm, and more of your heat in your house.

If you want an insulated liner, the easiest way to do this is to blanket wrap the liner prior to installation, but this is not the only way. You can also install the block-off plate and back-fill with Vermiculite, post-insulation. I'd not derail a planned installation date over either of these issues, unless there was a safety concern.

 

[Log Splitter]

Looks like it's in contact with the house but it's hard to tell. If this were my house I'd insulate the liner.

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I'm not sure what you mean by being in contact with the house. There is no gap between the siding of the home and the brick on the outside of the chimney. If this is what you're referring to, then there is no gap.

I'd not derail a planned installation date over either of these issues, unless there was a safety concern.

What safety concerns should I look into? The house was previously owned by an older couple who never used the fireplace. They had the fireplace cleaned and serviced a few years back (I believe I have the paperwork on this) and have not used it since.

I imagine the chimney's structural integrity, and being in proper working order is something the installers will investigate upon install?

 

[Ashful]

I don't suspect you have any safety concerns. Newer house, build to modern code. I was more including that for the many readers who live in much older homes. My house was built in four stages, 1738, 1773, 1894, and 1994. In homes like this, there are some safety concerns necessitating insulated liners. I'm assuming your chimney is lined with a clay tile liner, and that there are no major failures. Your installer, if they have any care at all for their work, will do a visual inspection from above and below.

 

[begreen]

I'm not sure what you mean by being in contact with the house. There is no gap between the siding of the home and the brick on the outside of the chimney. If this is what you're referring to, then there is no gap.

This is a safety concern, the chimney was not built to code. There should have been a 1" gap to the structure. This is not untypical in modern construction. By code the liner needs to be insulated. When in doubt, give the inspecting authority a call.

 

[Log Splitter]

This is a safety concern, the chimney was not built to code. There should have been a 1" gap to the structure. This is not untypical in modern construction. By code the liner needs to be insulated. When in doubt, give the inspecting authority a call.

I will take a look, but I believe it is flush against the house.

This is of course against the siding of the house, not directly up to the actual frame of the home....if that makes any difference.

 

[Log Splitter]

Maybe I'm just a fool and you're referring to the chimney being up against the house on the sides?

If that's the case, I believe we have a little gap.

Dark here so the picture isn't great.

Oh yeah, and what on earth am I doing getting a wood stove. It's 8:30 PM, mid October, and 65 degrees outside!

 

[begreen]

Hard to see. There may be a gap there and a trim piece covering it. Here is the code.


Considering the small additional cost which is trivial over the life of this infrastructure improvement it seems like a simple decision. Another benefit can be a cleaner flue. There will also be a performance improvement which can be important if the chimney height is short. This would be most notable during milder weather burning.

 

[Log Splitter]

Hard to see. There may be a gap there and a trim piece covering it. Here is the code.

View attachment 186041 View attachment 186042
Considering the small additional cost which is trivial over the life of this infrastructure improvement it seems like a simple decision. Another benefit can be a cleaner flue. There will also be a performance improvement which can be important if the chimney height is short. This would be most notable during milder weather burning.

I checked again this morning. There is a 1" gap between the chimney and the structure of the home. With the trim, and the way it has a little give, it's about 0.5". We should be good on code, but I will still give the installer a call and ask once again about insulating the liner.

Is the entire liner typically insulated when the liner gets insulation, or just a portion?

 

[Ashful]

Entire liner. The liner comes to them as a large coil. The insulation is usually a 20" wide blanket of foil-backed insulation, cut to the length of your liner. They lay it out in your driveway, and use foil tape (or sometimes the foil backing on the liner is self-adhesive) to affix it around the liner. Then they wrap that in a wire, or sometimes use a wire sock that looks like a giant Chinese finger trap, to hold the insulation there permanently. Then the try to coil it back up as best they can, to haul it up to your roof and slide it down the chimney. It adds maybe 30 minutes to the install job.

 

[Woody Stover]

Entire liner. The liner comes to them as a large coil. The insulation is usually a 20" wide blanket of foil-backed insulation, cut to the length of your liner. They lay it out in your driveway, and use foil tape (or sometimes the foil backing on the liner is self-adhesive) to affix it around the liner. Then they wrap that in a wire, or sometimes use a wire sock that looks like a giant Chinese finger trap, to hold the insulation there permanently. Then the try to coil it back up as best they can, to haul it up to your roof and slide it down the chimney. It adds maybe 30 minutes to the install job.

My insulation was sent with a 3M spray adhesive. The mesh also keeps rough surfaces in the masonry chimney from tearing up the insulation blanket when you pull the liner through.

 

[Log Splitter]

Install is complete. Took about 4 hours total. The two guys seemed to be on their game.

I'll post some pictures in a few minutes.
EDIT: Pictures posted

Currently burning a small fire in the 60 degree weather per the instructions. Haven't noticed any paint smelling, but I sure as hell got quite a bit of smoke in the house! This fire starting stuff is an art, and I get too antsy poking and proding trying to make sure everything is burning as efficiently as possible.

Here's one question. I know there are likely many factors, but how long does it take for the box and its surroundings to really start to heat up to the point where it begins radiating heat? I've been at a very small fire now for 30 minutes, but minimal radiant heat, or even hot air from the blower.

EDIT: Just remembered, also need to get some sort of hearth extension to meet code for the 16"

 

[Mr. Jones]

Mine doesn't heat up until I start closing the air down. Big flames when starting, but most of the heat goes up the chimney.

 

[brenndatomu]

Congrats!
It'll probably take a long time with a fire that small...