Progress Hybrid

[bholler]

When I last contacted Woodstock for replacement clips for the screen ( which they sent me no charge) they told me they no longer use the screen in the PH. In my case the screen was crusted with hard to remove build up. Its removal had no bearing on the cat plugging issue. My chimney has a liner and extends about 24 feet above the stove (two story house + pitched roof + 4 feet above roof).

What was the buildup like on the screen???

 

[TJL]

I assume you meant "once" Now I'm really confused. Are early Progress stoves cats hard to get at? Are they different? Mine comes out in about 30 seconds no tools. IF you are attempting to clean it #1 by sucking with a vac and #2 not taking it out that's a no go.

To remove the cat to clean:
1. carefully remove 3 soapstone top pieces, lay aside
2. remove gasket around metal plate
3. remove metal plate
4. remove gasket around cat
5. remove cat

If you can do that in 30 seconds, you're better than I.
I do not attempt to clean the cat in place. That would involve trying to suck the dust through the cat.

 

[bholler]

25 feet could certainly be enough to pull to much vacume.

 

[TJL]

What was the buildup like on the screen???

As I said, hard crusty material. A wire brush was only marginally effective and a losing battle. Woodstock's discontinued use of the screen tells me they don't see it as necessary.

 

[bholler]

As I said, hard crusty material. A wire brush was only marginally effective and a losing battle. Woodstock's discontinued use of the screen tells me they don't see it as necessary.

What color was it?

 

[Rearscreen]

To remove the cat to clean:

Nope, just said to remove, cleaning is an extra charge.

 

[TJL]

I don't think you understand what I am talking about when I say you have excessive draft. I am saying that it sounds like your chimney pulls to strong a vacume on the stove because of that a large amount of fly ash is sucked into the cat which cloggs it quickly. Get your draft within spec and I would bet the stove will run as intended.

Yes, I do know what you are talking about. I have two degrees in Chemical Engineering. I remove a couple of gallons of deposits from the pipe and liner each Spring when I clean the chimney. Cutting the draft and temps can only exacerbate that problem. I did operate with low draft for quite a while. The pipe/stack buildup was much worse and the cap plugging was unaffected.

What exactly is the draft spec? How would one measure the draft? With pitot tube, anemometer, static pressure?

 

[TJL]

What color was it?

Dark.

 

[bholler]

Yes, I do know what you are talking about. I have two degrees in Chemical Engineering. I remove a couple of gallons of deposits from the pipe and liner each Spring when I clean the chimney. Cutting the draft and temps can only exacerbate that problem. I did operate with low draft for quite a while. The pipe/stack buildup was much worse and the cap plugging was unaffected.

What exactly is the draft spec? How would one measure the draft? With pitot tube, anemometer, static pressure?

If you are removing a couple gallons every year the stove clearly isn't working anywhere near correctly. You should be getting a couple cups.

How were you running with low draft? Did you increase the height of the chimney or line it to increase the draft?

 

[bholler]

Yes, I do know what you are talking about. I have two degrees in Chemical Engineering. I remove a couple of gallons of deposits from the pipe and liner each Spring when I clean the chimney. Cutting the draft and temps can only exacerbate that problem. I did operate with low draft for quite a while. The pipe/stack buildup was much worse and the cap plugging was unaffected.

What exactly is the draft spec? How would one measure the draft? With pitot tube, anemometer, static pressure?

I don't know what the speced draft is you would have to ask Woodstock. And there are quite a few different instruments that can be used to measure draft. But a manometer is most common. I typically use a pocket draft gauge.

 

[webby3650]

If you are removing a couple gallons every year the stove clearly isn't working anywhere near correctly. You should be getting a couple cups.

How were you running with low draft? Did you increase the height of the chimney or line it to increase the draft?

He clearly doesn’t know what you mean by draft. Just tell him how to measure the draft...
No offense, but engineers are our toughest customers by far! Being an engineer in a certain field has no bearing on the issue at hand. No offense, it’s just the way it is. No one can know it all..

 

[Rearscreen]

One of my draft restriction - problem or assets - is that I have an OAK that terminates about 6 feet above the stove. this essentially I believe restricts the air intake to some degree. Just a guess.

 

[bholler]

One of my draft restriction - problem or assets - is that I have an OAK that terminates about 6 feet above the stove. this essentially I believe restricts the air intake to some degree. Just a guess.

It is also against code and can potentially be quite dangerous.

 

[TJL]

If you are removing a couple gallons every year the stove clearly isn't working anywhere near correctly. You should be getting a couple cups.

How were you running with low draft? Did you increase the height of the chimney or line it to increase the draft?

WOW! First I have high draft, now I have low draft. Perhaps I have both simultaneously

To recap:
1. For years I ran the stove within temp specs per the stovetop and stovepipe thermometers.
2. The cat consistently plugged within about a week and the stovepipe and liner had a couple of gallons of easily removed buildup each year at Spring cleaning time.
3. As a result, I normally operated with the bypass open and increased the damper setting.
4. This year I removed the cat, operate with the bypass closed and continue to operate within recommended temp range while tending to keep the damper at 80-100% to assure complete combustion in order to minimize pipe/stack deposits.

I am quite happy to operate the stove in this manner.

 

[bholler]

WOW! First I have high draft, now I have low draft. Perhaps I have both simultaneously

To recap:
1. For years I ran the stove within temp specs per the stovetop and stovepipe thermometers.
2. The cat consistently plugged within about a week and the stovepipe and liner had a couple of gallons of easily removed buildup each year at Spring cleaning time.
3. As a result, I normally operated with the bypass open and increased the damper setting.
4. This year I removed the cat, operate with the bypass closed and continue to operate within recommended temp range while tending to keep the damper at 80-100% to assure complete combustion in order to minimize pipe/stack deposits.

I am quite happy to operate the stove in this manner.

No I never said you have low draft at all. I said the stove isn't working poroperly if you are getting that much buildup. That does not nessecarily have a thing to do with your draft

 

[Rearscreen]

It is also against code and can potentially be quite dangerous.

Ok. So anyone in a basement situation can not have an OAK?

 

[bholler]

WOW! First I have high draft, now I have low draft. Perhaps I have both simultaneously

To recap:
1. For years I ran the stove within temp specs per the stovetop and stovepipe thermometers.
2. The cat consistently plugged within about a week and the stovepipe and liner had a couple of gallons of easily removed buildup each year at Spring cleaning time.
3. As a result, I normally operated with the bypass open and increased the damper setting.
4. This year I removed the cat, operate with the bypass closed and continue to operate within recommended temp range while tending to keep the damper at 80-100% to assure complete combustion in order to minimize pipe/stack deposits.

I am quite happy to operate the stove in this manner.

I am sorry but it is very clear you have no understanding of the factors at play. I am trying to help you but you have to try. Btw what moisture content is your wood at

Ok. So anyone in a basement situation can not have an OAK?

Not hooked up directly no

 

[moresnow]

Dark crusty buildup on the guard. Gallons of creo. Cat packed with flyash. Seems that much of the required info has been provided. If you ever decide to try the cat again and get the most out of your stove I'd consider letting the pro's here advise a path to satisfaction. MC of your fuel supply sounds questionable at best. Overdraft sucking flyash into the cat seems like a reasonable diagnoses. Good luck.

 

[TJL]

Dark crusty buildup on the guard. Gallons of creo. Cat packed with flyash. Seems that much of the required info has been provided. If you ever decide to try the cat again and get the most out of your stove I'd consider letting the pro's here advise a path to satisfaction. MC of your fuel supply sounds questionable at best. Overdraft sucking flyash into the cat seems like a reasonable diagnoses. Good luck.

The screen buildup is a non-issue. Woodstock doesn't use it any more and mine went to the trash years ago. Its use/non-use had no impact on the cat plugging issue. My wood is more than 5 years old and has been covered with a tarp for that time. MC is not an issue. Yes, cat buildup from overdraft seems logical, except that cutting draft increases stack buildup, presumably due to incomplete combustion. Chimney is quite ordinary. Constructed with house 30 years ago. Added SS liner when clay tiles found to be broken.

To resume fighting the cat is not on my "TO DO" list.

 

[bholler]

The screen buildup is a non-issue. Woodstock doesn't use it any more and mine went to the trash years ago. Its use/non-use had no impact on the cat plugging issue. My wood is more than 5 years old and has been covered with a tarp for that time. MC is not an issue. Yes, cat buildup from overdraft seems logical, except that cutting draft increases stack buildup, presumably due to incomplete combustion. Chimney is quite ordinary. Constructed with house 30 years ago. Added SS liner when clay tiles found to be broken.

To resume fighting the cat is not on my "TO DO" list.

Yet you are putting gallons of creosote into your chimney every year. You do realize that is dangerous right?

And btw just because your wood is 5 years old doesn't mean anything. Was it cut split and stacked that whole time? Was it completely covered with a tarp or just top covered?

 

[TJL]

He clearly doesn’t know what you mean by draft. Just tell him how to measure the draft...

I was measuring air flow, using a pitot tube (measures velocity and static pressures), and particulate emissions in industrial stacks in 1968 to determine compliance. Yes, I know about draft. What were you doing in 1968?

 

[bholler]

I was measuring air flow, using a pitot tube (measures velocity and static pressures), and particulate emissions in industrial stacks in 1968 to determine compliance. Yes, I know about draft. What were you doing in 1968?

Ok so you understand the concept of draft. Unfortunately you don't seem to understand how it relates to your situation in the least.

 

[TJL]

I don't know what the speced draft is you would have to ask Woodstock. And there are quite a few different instruments that can be used to measure draft. But a manometer is most common. I typically use a pocket draft gauge.

Yes, I know about manometers. I use one on my RV to check LP pressure post regulator. Assuming, I create a opening in my pipe or chimney, attach the manometer, take a reading, how would that number tell me if the draft was too high? In addition, the draft changes as the stove/pipe temperature changes, which happens continuously as the load burns hotter then cooler. How would a static measurement deal with that? Yes, cutting draft reduces velocity which reduces entrainment of particulate matter. But too low draft brings its own issues.

 

[TJL]

Ok so you understand the concept of draft. Unfortunately you don't seem to understand how it relates to your situation in the least.

Ah, but I do. Cutting draft reduces velocity which reduces entrainment of particulate matter, i.e. ash, which can plug the cat. Not complicated. But too low draft brings its own issues.

 

[bholler]

Yes, I know about manometers. I use one on my RV to check LP pressure post regulator. Assuming, I create a opening in my pipe or chimney, attach the manometer, take a reading, how would that number tell me if the draft was too high? In addition, the draft changes as the stove/pipe temperature changes, which happens continuously as the load burns hotter then cooler. How would a static measurement deal with that? Yes, cutting draft reduces velocity which reduces entrainment of particulate matter. But too low draft brings its own issues.

You test draft according to the procedure that Woodstock will give you. What you are concerned with is maximum draft. You can use all the fancy words you want. It doesn't change the fact that you have no idea how to run your stove properly. I am trying to help you but it seems like you would rather continue filling your chimney with massive amounts of creosote.