I've done it. Temps at >1100. Sphincter puckering, but effective. Good luck throwing baking soda on an inferno like that. You're going to have to open the door either way.
Over firing Scenario - What to do & is this true?
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Yes, as I explained in my prior post. Opening the door and leaving it open only fuel the fire and makes things worse, tried it, no go.
It's going to depend on the setup, but I have also twice opened the door to cool down the fire. Once with the Castine and once with the T6. Both times were because I put dry wood on a large hot coal bed and they took off like a flash. Opening the door dropped firebox and stovetop temp within a minute or two. Underpants change was not optional the first time. The second time I knew what to expect.
wooduser
Minister of Fire
Ummm. I'm guessing you've never actually used a fire extinguisher to put out a fire.
Here's a You Tube video that you might be interested in watching, which has a couple of examples of extinguishing wood fires.
I would imagine such a fire extinguisher would snuff out a fire in a wood stove almost instantly I'm GUESSING that throwing in a handful of baking soda would do pretty much the same, by impairing the ability of gasses and particles from burning. I suppose I oughta tery throwing some on a wood stove fire and reporting the results...
The kind of fire extinguisher in the video has a compressed inert gas fogging the fire with a powder which snuffs out the fire, much like throwing in baking soda will do. But feel free to use a fire extinguisher rather than baking soda if you prefer ---having both on hand is worthwhile.
My experience with fire extinguishers was being trained on putting out gas fires on broken utility gas mains with a fire extinguisher similar to that in the video. Amazingly effective, really. Takes only a second or two to put out a roaring gas flame burning thirty feet in the air. Direct the fire extinguisher jet of powder at the base of the flame, and as the powder rises on the column of flame, the flame is extinguished from bottom to top.
I've never put out a fire with a fire extinguisher outside that training, but I keep one not far from my wood stove where I can grab it and use it if need be.
The biggest disadvantage of using a fire extinguisher on a wood stove fire that I can think of, is that the fire extinguisher such as that in the video uses a fairly powerful jet of inert compressed gas to entrain the powder and carry it to the fire. blowing that into a wood stove might well cause hot coals to be blown out of the stove. and into the area surrounding the stove.
Throwing a handful of baking powder in the stove would avoid that issue.
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A. You'd be guessing wrong.
B. How are you going to use it without opening the door again?
C. Baking soda would probably do just fine, IF you could get enough of it to the right place. Again, good luck with that. And again, not sure how you're doing that with the door closed.
wooduser
Minister of Fire
Here's that video:
Oh, you'd have to open the door. The question is, what do you do then?
Easy Livin’ 3000
Minister of Fire
I'm gonna throw some baking soda on my next fire pit fire and see what happens. At the end of the fire. Hopeful that it extinguishes it, tuit de suite!
Village Idiot
Burning Hunk
Scary as heck, but I open the doors wide to cool things down. I cannot completely close the air off with my Quad. My first time I tried and it just got more angry. I tried opening the doors but the heat was so crazy I closed the doors and sat with it. By the second time I had read on this forum about throwing the doors wide to cool things down. After thinking about it, it made sense. With the doors open you just had a regular old fire.
The second time, I suited up with a long sleeve sweatshirt, sunglasses, and a fire extinguisher at the ready. I opened the doors wide and the fire quickly settled down and the box started cooling. I'm a believer.
I still have that fleece sweatshirt with the hard crusty patch on the middle of the chest where it melted a bit from the initial blast of heat. It's a good reminder to avoid the situation in the future.
The second time, I suited up with a long sleeve sweatshirt, sunglasses, and a fire extinguisher at the ready. I opened the doors wide and the fire quickly settled down and the box started cooling. I'm a believer.
I still have that fleece sweatshirt with the hard crusty patch on the middle of the chest where it melted a bit from the initial blast of heat. It's a good reminder to avoid the situation in the future.
As i (and others) have said, you leave it open for a minute or 2 and it cools down. If you want to make a mess with a fire extinguisher, your choice.
Easy Livin’ 3000
Minister of Fire
Nice post. And a very meaningful warning to all:
Avoid synthetics when handling fire
All these stove top temperatures above 1000. Did the tops glow, crack, melt, paint fail? How did you even know it was so hot? My stove top meters from condar and Rutland don’t go over 800 and I don’t even think the 800 is labeled.
Many stove manuals say everything is fine unless parts glow.
Many stove manuals say everything is fine unless parts glow.
VirginiaIron
Minister of Fire
(EDIT: An overfire is different than a chimney fire. My mistake for posting the following information.)
My understanding about a chimney fire is that the chimney is on fire and adding more air creates a rocket stove-like fire that might exceed system temperatures and burn the house down. The stove and liner are expendable compared to the cost of the house.
I intend to keep my chimney clean and empty of fuel via quality wood and good burning habits to help prevent this. Most stove and liner manufacturers recommend monitoring your creosote levels. So you may need to inspect and clean the system several times a year. Remember, less buildup means less fuel for a fire.
https://www.csia.org/chimneyfires.html
I plan on closing all the air down and throwing in a few chimfex sticks in.
http://www.chimfex.us
My understanding about a chimney fire is that the chimney is on fire and adding more air creates a rocket stove-like fire that might exceed system temperatures and burn the house down. The stove and liner are expendable compared to the cost of the house.
I intend to keep my chimney clean and empty of fuel via quality wood and good burning habits to help prevent this. Most stove and liner manufacturers recommend monitoring your creosote levels. So you may need to inspect and clean the system several times a year. Remember, less buildup means less fuel for a fire.
https://www.csia.org/chimneyfires.html
I plan on closing all the air down and throwing in a few chimfex sticks in.
http://www.chimfex.us
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All of this talk of extinguishers and bakings soda is great for chimney fires. But for a simple overfire simply opening the door works very well to bring the temps under control. Without having to shut down and clean the system after.
jetsam
Minister of Fire
Make a video for us!
I think the pit fire will be much harder to extinguish with baking soda than a stove fire. The baking soda releases CO2 and displaces so much O2 that the fire poops out. This is a much better strategy in a closed box like a stove than in the wide open air.
It would possibly work better outside on a very calm day with no wind moving the heavier CO2 away.
I'd be hesitant to be blasting a fire extinguisher in there. Might just cause shat on fire to come out of the stove and all over the place. I don't see a couple handfuls of BS putting it out either, Maybe if you dump a couple boxes in. For me, door closed, monitor and move on.
Reading this thread, I’m wondering about overfire in general - How does it happen? Can it happen on all stoves/are some stoves (i.e. cats, Woodstocks...) less likely to have this happen? Beyond damaging the stove from an overfire, what can happen that makes this so dangerous that it could cause a fire in your home? My last question comes up as I read some posts here of people saying if they saw an overfire they’d be calling the FD and gathering up their belongings to get out of the house...
I’m asking because while I have had moments where I forgot to turn the air down for a little too long and the stove got a bit higher than I’d like, I haven’t had a runaway stove (thankfully) that I couldn’t get back to a comfortable temp pretty quickly by turning down the air intake, and would like to avoid this scenario. The info here about ways to get an overfire under control is very helpful. Some general info about why and when this could happen in order to avoid, would be great!
I’m asking because while I have had moments where I forgot to turn the air down for a little too long and the stove got a bit higher than I’d like, I haven’t had a runaway stove (thankfully) that I couldn’t get back to a comfortable temp pretty quickly by turning down the air intake, and would like to avoid this scenario. The info here about ways to get an overfire under control is very helpful. Some general info about why and when this could happen in order to avoid, would be great!
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VirginiaIron
Minister of Fire
After reading some posts in this thread about running, calling 911 etc., my mind, for some reason, started thinking chimney fire which is different from an overfire.
I think an over fire can be prevented by not leaving the stove door open while unattended, manufacturers do not generally recommend leaving the door open on startup. Leaky gaskets, loose doors, cracks, improperly sealed seams, super drafts, and super dry wood with the controls left wide open can cause an over fire.
Minimal clearances are particularly susceptible to overfires. I think a metered amount of air directed on coals can induce a hotter burn, so it makes sense to me that opening up the door will calm things down. But I have not experienced any of this yet and I do not know if it works, so you should perform your own research to come to a correct conclusion on this matter.
Underwear cleaning however, may be necessary after.
It can happen with any stove, but some stoves are more susceptible to it than others. My Jotul overfires very easily, partly I guess because it heats up so quickly in general, being a N/S burner probably contributes as well. If I close down the air too late it will still overfire, even if it isn't too hot when I turn it down. My Century is very difficult to overheat. I can leave the air wide open, and unless I'm using nothing but bricks it doesn't get nearly as hot as the Jotul. Blower on that one helps as well. Also certain stoves give you more control over the total air. Neither of my stoves allow you to shut down secondary air, and on the Jotul I can't even completely shut primary. As far as the danger, I doubt that it's that great unless it's going on for a long period of time. It would be tough to get anything hot enough to actually catch anything on fire (except any creosote)--but I'll leave it to others to chime in on that. If you have a dirty chimney, an overfire probably makes you more prone to a chimney fire.
wooduser
Minister of Fire
Hmmm. I didn't know that baking soda released CO2 when burned.
I'm working up my nerve to throw some in, perhaps when a fire is burning normally and not too big to see what happens.
I'm also wondering if I will see a plume of white baking soda coming out the chimney, like a spouting whale!
Jan Pijpelink
Minister of Fire
Baking Soda is Sodium Bicarbonate NaHCO3. When heated it brakes down and CO2 is released. NaHCO3>NaOH + CO2
jetsam
Minister of Fire
Speaking of which, NaOH is very alkaline and used as a drain cleaner. It does eat steel.
You need ~1550F to make sodium hydroxide, but your coals might be at ~2000F..
The moral of the story is that baking soda may be a good idea to put out a chimney fire, but don't put it in your stove unless you really need to.
And like bholler says, for an overfire you can just open the door.
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