Need Some Help. Neighbor (Environmental Atty) Filed Complaint

[Boxer]

Also consider that the cats are probably original and have been being fed by green wood for five years. I don't know who recommended two princesses for a person that doesn't burn for primary heat. They seem like the wrong stove for this situation to begin with.

I've changed my cat twice since having the inserts put in 5 years ago. I replaced the orig ceramic cats 2 years ago with steel cats but didn't like them as much as the ceramic cat. After a season of the steel cat, I purchased 2 new ceramic cat.

 

[Zack R]

Ok, so to get you back on track for clean burning and happy neighbors.... perhaps its time for a new cat, get the chimney professionally inspected and cleaned, and throw down on a pallet of bio blocks (or whatever they are called locally). Set yourself up for success and see how cleanly you can get this this stove burning.

Best case scenario to get the neighbor off your back is to have no visible smoke, so the chimney top looks like @St. Coemgen 's photo. Once you are essentially smoke free the neighbor wont have a case, and you can refocus your efforts on building up a nice dry wood supply. Buy yourself a moisture meter to avoid guessing in the future.

I'm rooting for you, I have neighbors in the area who burn poorly and I wish I could sit down with them to go over some tips for clean burning. As @St. Coemgen mentioned there are some folks who refuse to season their wood, I see them splitting green rounds during the first snow of the season and throwing those splits right into the stove. They can't think ahead even one season apparently (pine will season in one summer here)... drives me nuts.

 

[NoobTube]

So, if you can't burn and can't remedy the situation... any interest in selling one of the BK's?

 

[blades]

Unfortunately once a gov. entity becomes involved there is H to pay. Right or Wrong. been there done that. Considering the posted regs of his location - recovery of being able to use the wood stoves looks to be almost impossible without significant expense, even then iffy at best. One portion of the regs mentions scent- there is always some scent to using a wood stove ( can't comment on pellet units) even when no visible smoke/steam is present. The way I read the regs as posted leaves little doubt that the intention is to ban solid fuel appliances without specifically saying same. No mention of a grandfather clause. In this day and age permits pulled litterly means nothing as far as new or changes to codes. Got the t shirt for that also.

 

[kborndale]

Why are people still telling him to change his cats? Read the thread before responding, it clearly says they have been changed twice in the last 5 years!

 

[Dataman]

Even with Pellet stove there is hint of wood burning outside. But Lots Cleaner

 

[weatherguy]

In the past he said he cant stack a lot wood on his property so getting wood seasoned might be a problem.

 

[Dug8498]

Compressed bricks, a solar kiln, or getting wood such as maple or ash would all greatly improve the unseasoned wood problem

 

[MagdalenaP]

I didn't read all the comments, however...do you have a stove pipe thermometer? This will help you bring up the stove to temp (less smoke) much faster.

 

[wooduser]

Interesting thread.


It sounds like you are dealing with the Board of Health, not a lawsuit filed against you personally by the neighbor. But that could change ---- a lawsuit for creating a nuisance would probably be pretty easy to sustain with all the laws and regulations you have included.

I's say the first thing to do is to talk to the Board of Health about this and find out how concerned they are and what they want you to do ----then do it.

Sounds to me like you are probably creating a nuisance by burning wet wood, creating smoke that the regulations you included would prohibit.. The fact that you don't have enough room to season wood adequately merely demonstrates that you are chronically burning wet wood and that the smoke is likely a nuisance.

If the neighbor is smart he's already had a police officer or other public authority come out to view you chimney and write up a report on what he found,. If that hasn't been done yet, keep in mind that it can be done at any time without notice to you ----and then used as evidence in a lawsuit against you.

If I were you I'd be inclined to learn how to accurately measure the moisture content of your wood right quick and find out what it actually is. If it's higher than recommend on this board, I'd go hat in hand to the Board of health and explain to them that you just DIDN'T KNOW until they did you the favor of notifying you of a possible problem. You've now investigated the problem and can pledge not to burn wood unless the moisture content is down where it should be.

If that inconveniences you, tough. Continue doing what you are and you should expect some expensive legal fees to pay for dealing with the Board of Health and/or your neighbor, who can file and likely win a tort action for creating a nuisance. His only difficulty would be proving damages, but I imagine most lawyers can conjure that up without breaking a sweat. He might get a court order prohibiting you from burning wood at all.

Frankly, I'm in the same boat you are, except no one has filed a complaint about me -----yet. I burn scrap wood in an uncertified wood stove. My neighbors could likely sustain such a complaint against me if they had a mind to do so. None have in the thirty years I've been burning my stove ----but that could change tomorrow.

 

[Kevin Weis]

If he's going to the local jurisdiction he's looking to get the aforementioned nuisance complaint lodged against you. To have a "air pollution" complaint lodged against you he would be contacting a state agency for that. Typically the state health department or environmental department and they would investigate that with meters in hand to substantiate the complaint and go from there based on their findings. They would not be secretive about it to you I would think.

 

[ryanwc]

I will try to answer these issue intellectually. I trust you can follow.

First, you are right. Poor people do not have a lot of options. To keep warm, to eat, or survive. But I doubt this is fully true of the OP. The OP is burning unseasoned wood in an area that has regulations about burning. So the answer to your question of "What gives the neighbor the right to tell him he can't", is "the local law and regulations may tell him". One may not agree with laws, or regulations. Some are fully unjust and silly (e.g. Indentured service and slavery was once legal). But a legal law based system is how most societies work, right or wrong. And, equally, the OP has the right to fight the complaint. Which is also his legal right.

Second, simply because something is done commonly or historically in some area does not mean it is smart or good. I have the opposite problem of the OP. Most everyone around me burns unseasoned wood.

My chimney during burning:

View attachment 237705

Everyone else burning where I live:

View attachment 237706

Yes, many do this because they are poor and can not buy wood "years ahead". But they are also rather stupid. Not really understanding the concept of seasoned wood because buying unsplit logs in the fall and burning them that winter is "that is the way they have always done it". Simply buying and splitting in the spring would be a leap forward. But no. They are uneducated and stubborn, and many seem to want to stay that way. And that refusal to change is sad mostly because it harms them more than anyone else (I, fortunately, live above the inversion layer, and most days I can see this pollution, but don't have to smell it -- but if I go down there, the aroma is breathing in pure creosote). Where I live, surprise to no one, has a high incident of lung cancer, et al. But that affects everyone -- raises health care costs. So others ignorance and behavior ends up affecting me. The idea "I can do what I want on my property" has limits. Some things one does affects others both personally and financially. You don't live on an asteroid alone. Your actions do have consequences, even if you want to think they don't.

Side note: others in this smoke hazed town in the photo above would be willing to change, if they could because most of them have children and are of a younger generation (-- the local old farts seem too stuck in their ways and reactionary to change even if it helps them). But even those that want to change and help themselves need both education and support doing so (i.e. help buying wood a few years ahead). The local government has "issues" about that because those currently in power are incompetent. So it is complicated.

Wow! That’s in hungary? And it’s really smoke, not fog? Cripe!

 

[weatherguy]

Now that I think about it if you had a couple pallets of a compressed product like bio bricks or better yet NIEL's you could probably get a much cleaner burn and wouldn't have to move to Oakham. Just a couple pieces mixed in with your wood might do the trick.

 

[Todd67]

I'm no lawyer, but that regulation is written to only allow heating your home with a gas fired furnace. Good luck, but I think you are in a losing battle with the wording of that regulation.

 

[Dataman]

What ever U do, don't get couple of tons of compressed logs. What are U going to do with them if you can't burn them? Get enough for fire once or twice. 2 Tons of logs to give away will suck. I again suggest pellet stove.

 

[Dug8498]

I just don't understand why a town would allow you to legally install wood stoves that cost thousands of dollars only to revoke your ability to use them without providing any course of action to correct your burning practices.

I would have a very difficult time not being extremely vindictive with that neighbor. I would probably be thinking about plopping my lawnmower next to the property line to let it run all day every day within the hours that noise is allowed. Maybe start the chainsaw up early every day just to make sure it's working....

I understand it would probably make the situation worse... but one can dream

 

[Todd67]

If his neighbor is an environmental attorney, he is in a losing battle. It sounds like he has a "no compromise" neighbor who is "offended" by wood smoke.

 

[DuaeGuttae]

I can’t speak to all the legal issues, but I thought I’d call @Poindexter and @Highbeam to this thread since they burn Blaze Kings in areas where smoke is regulated.

 

[Todd67]

For anyone who hasn't read the regulation in post #13 of this thread, the definition of Air Contaminant and Air Pollution is aggressively anti-wood burning.

AIR CONTAMINANT means any substance or man-made physical phenomenon in the ambient

air space and includes, but is not limited to, dust, flyash, gas, fume, mist,odor, smoke, vapor,

pollen, microorganism, radioactive material, radiation, heat, sound, any combination thereof, or

any decay or reaction product thereof.



Air contaminates can cause or contribute to a condition of air pollution:



AIR POLLUTION means the presence in the ambient air space of one or more air contaminants

or combinations thereof in such concentrations and of such duration as to:

(a) cause a nuisance;

(b) be injurious, or be on the basis of current information, potentially injurious to human

or animal life, to vegetation, or to property; or

(c) unreasonably interfere with the comfortable enjoyment of life and property or the

conduct of business.

 

[Dug8498]

For anyone who hasn't read the regulation in post #13 of this thread, the definition of Air Contaminant and Air Pollution is aggressively anti-wood burning.

AIR CONTAMINANT means any substance or man-made physical phenomenon in the ambient

air space and includes, but is not limited to, dust, flyash, gas, fume, mist,odor, smoke, vapor,

pollen, microorganism, radioactive material, radiation, heat, sound, any combination thereof, or

any decay or reaction product thereof.



Air contaminates can cause or contribute to a condition of air pollution:



AIR POLLUTION means the presence in the ambient air space of one or more air contaminants

or combinations thereof in such concentrations and of such duration as to:

(a) cause a nuisance;

(b) be injurious, or be on the basis of current information, potentially injurious to human

or animal life, to vegetation, or to property; or

(c) unreasonably interfere with the comfortable enjoyment of life and property or the

conduct of business.

Todd, yes it does seem that way. It would seem very odd to then allow someone to pull a permit and spend thousands of dollars installing a stove to then hold this regulation over their head. I hope there is some way the OP can resolve this.

Makes me grateful to live in an area where I'd never have to worry about something like this happening

 

[JSeery]

You're likely burning pretty underseasoned oak if it's only 1 year split. Most would recommend 3 years for oak. If you are actually smoking them out with that then I will say it can be pretty annoying. Last year my wife put some way under seasoned locust in the stove while I was out splitting and the smoke from it really was annoying and smelled pretty awful. Not the pleasant kind of wood smoke smell, more like the choke you out type of smell thats from burning wet wood.

Amen. My neighbor has been burning dripping wet locust this fall/winter and it is super annoying. Not a good smell, and I'm downwind of him so it has sort of ruined a few crisp fall days when I was otherwise enjoying hand splitting. We're friends so I would never report him, and he knows his wood sucks but keeps burning it for some reason (in an open fireplace, so it's not like he's getting much heat either way). I helped him split it last spring and strongly suggested he wait another year, which he said he would do but oh well. This summer was really bad for seasoning with all the rain we got. Since I help him split truckloads from a tree guy, this year I think I'll "claim" all the oak and locust and give him quick woods like soft maple so I don't have to deal with this anymore.

 

[Todd67]

Todd, yes it does seem that way. It would seem very odd to then allow someone to pull a permit and spend thousands of dollars installing a stove to then hold this regulation over their head. I hope there is some way the OP can resolve this.

Makes me grateful to live in an area where I'd never have to worry about something like this happening

I agree, and wonder why they would allow a permit for wood burning heaters to be installed.

I hope for a peaceful and sensible resolution for all parties involved. I'm glad I live in the country. My old Fisher stove has gotten us through countless power failures. It has a baffle in it, and burns so clean that I only clean the chimney once a year.

 

[Highbeam]

This has nothing to do with how clean the op is burning. This has everything to do with a neighbor that will not allow any wood burning. He believes he is fighting for his life!

Do not waste a single bit of time trying to improve your emissions of smoke as that is not the problem. You could be the best burner in the world and he won’t go away.

You, the op, must decide if burning wood is more important than where you live. Either stop burning or move. You really have no other valid options.

 

[SpaceBus]

I agree, and wonder why they would allow a permit for wood burning heaters to be installed.

I hope for a peaceful and sensible resolution for all parties involved. I'm glad I live in the country. My old Fisher stove has gotten us through countless power failures. It has a baffle in it, and burns so clean that I only clean the chimney once a year.

This is because unscrupulous people like money. Contractors will pull permits and install any number of products that conflict with local code. This is just the way it is. We ran into this when we bought our house. The house had some very old cantilevered decks that needed repaired/replaced. The Seller's agent paid a guy, not even a contractor, to replace the decks. This guy told the agents the house had a lot of issues where the cantilevered decks were and he couldn't build onto the house. They said that he was only to replace the decks and nothing else, so he built freestanding decks. None of the damage to the house under the decks was communicated to us and now we have to deal with it. Very frustrating, but we might have some recourse with the Seller's agents since they knew about this damage and didn't tell anyone.

 

[Zack R]

This has nothing to do with how clean the op is burning. This has everything to do with a neighbor that will not allow any wood burning. He believes he is fighting for his life!

Do not waste a single bit of time trying to improve your emissions of smoke as that is not the problem. You could be the best burner in the world and he won’t go away.

You, the op, must decide if burning wood is more important than where you live. Either stop burning or move. You really have no other valid options.

Possibly however if you are burning clean enough and the chimney is high enough its hard for a neighbor to to tell there's even a fire going. As an example, I just ran downstairs and took these three photos, all within a minute of each other.

Stove at a low cruise, air control fully closed, about half full of wood (pine <20%), just under 400F stove top temp:

No smoke visible from the top of the chimney.

zoomed in, still cant' even tell there's a fire burning