Lots of ash/unburnt coals not much heat. The company says I'm outta luck

[coaly]

So is there chimney liner exposed to outside air anywhere?
The manual states when a masonry chimney is used, the 6 inch liner is to be insulated or improper operation may result.
The manual does not suggest connecting to an uninsulated liner anywhere.

 

[Lsingle]

Is the baffle pushed back in place now?

Yes

 

[Lsingle]

Is the baffle pushed back in place now?

Yes

 

[Lsingle]

So is there chimney liner exposed to outside air anywhere?
The manual states when a masonry chimney is used, the 6 inch liner is to be insulated or improper operation may result.
The manual does not suggest connecting to an uninsulated liner anywhere.

It is exposed. It's a single wall stainless steel 6in pipe. That is exposed 24in above the chimney

 

[bholler]

So is there chimney liner exposed to outside air anywhere?
The manual states when a masonry chimney is used, the 6 inch liner is to be insulated or improper operation may result.
The manual does not suggest connecting to an uninsulated liner anywhere.

The manual talks about size requirements when venting directly into clay. Where does it say liners need insulation to operate properly?

 

[coaly]

The manual talks about size requirements when venting directly into clay. Where does it say liners need insulation to operate properly?

If I'm in the right manual, bottom of page 13.
England-S-Stove-Works-The-Madison-15-Ssw01.html
** External masonry chimneys often suffer cold downdrafts and poor draft performance even when they meet the cross‐sectional area rules. In this case, a 6.0" insulated liner may be necessary.**
It doesn't say "in this case, a 6.0" liner may be necessary".

Anywhere else in the manual a liner was mentioned, it was only referred to as "insulated liner".

I agree, it could have an air leak somewhere into chimney, exposed at top, something killing draft, or even something wrong with intake system. I recently installed an England NC 13 brand new and couldn't get good secondary air flow. Pulled the stove, on its back found pink emery cloth in the intake tube. I never saw or used pink emery paper, so it had to be factory.
Obviously the intake or exhaust is starving it of air.

 

[bholler]

If I'm in the right manual, bottom of page 13.
England-S-Stove-Works-The-Madison-15-Ssw01.html
Anywhere else in the manual a liner was mentioned, it was only referred to as "insulated liner".

I agree, it could have an air leak somewhere into chimney, exposed at top, something killing draft, or even something wrong with intake system. I recently installed an England NC 13 brand new and couldn't get good secondary air flow. Pulled the stove, on its back found pink emery cloth in the intake tube. I never saw or used pink emery paper, so it had to be factory.
Obviously the intake or exhaust is starving it of air.

Well I completely agree all liners should be insulated for many reasons. But the manual says sometimes an insulated liner may be needed. But with the height they have I really doubt that is the cause.

 

[Lsingle]

If I'm in the right manual, bottom of page 13.
England-S-Stove-Works-The-Madison-15-Ssw01.html
Anywhere else in the manual a liner was mentioned, it was only referred to as "insulated liner".

I agree, it could have an air leak somewhere into chimney, exposed at top, something killing draft, or even something wrong with intake system. I recently installed an England NC 13 brand new and couldn't get good secondary air flow. Pulled the stove, on its back found pink emery cloth in the intake tube. I never saw or used pink emery paper, so it had to be factory.
Obviously the intake or exhaust is starving it of air.

I'm sure the 2 foot should be insulated but not sure how much that would help being it's at the end of the chimney and cost a lot more. Probably should have bought the correct piece but I'm running out of money

 

[bholler]

I'm sure the 2 foot should be insulated but not sure how much that would help being it's at the end of the chimney and cost a lot more. Probably should have bought the correct piece but I'm running out of money

It may cause problems with creosote buildup in that area. But again something else is going on. It the bottom of the liner sealed?

 

[wagne223]

I apologise if I missed this one, but have you tried disconnecting the oak kit and running the stove with a nearby window part way open?
Wondering if there is a restriction there.
I have heard of folks using a dryer termination cap on the OAK and not removing the flapper.

It sounds like your operating the stove correct for the most part. So like others I'm just trying to think of potential issues.

 

[wagne223]

I have also heard the chimney Cap screen being dirty will cause an issue similar to yours.

 

[coaly]

Yeah, the OP said it worked the same with OAK disconnected.

We don't know if the automatic thermostat is working properly. I'd bypass that or make sure it stayed open. Seems like it kicks up with door open fine, and dies to a low fire adjustment closing door.
No air; charcoal.
A restriction at top would likely put smoke inside opening door and be sluggish to start even with door open.

 

[bholler]

Yeah, the OP said it worked the same with OAK disconnected.

We don't know if the automatic thermostat is working properly. I'd bypass that or make sure it stayed open. Seems like it kicks up with door open fine, and dies to a low fire adjustment closing door.
No air; charcoal.
A restriction at top would likely put smoke inside opening door and be sluggish to start even with door open.

A restriction in draft or a leak at the bottom of the chimney will cause these symptoms exactly. It takes a fairly strong draft to pull through the manifold and tubes.

 

[jetsam]

Yeah, the OP said it worked the same with OAK disconnected.

We don't know if the automatic thermostat is working properly. I'd bypass that or make sure it stayed open. Seems like it kicks up with door open fine, and dies to a low fire adjustment closing door.
No air; charcoal.
A restriction at top would likely put smoke inside opening door and be sluggish to start even with door open.

Thinking about the thermostat- that's what, a 2 or 2.5 cf stove with an advertised max burn time of 6-8 hours? The full closed position on that thermostat must admit a LOT of air- enough air that his lowest setting is in the high burn range on my stove. Which isn't to say that it couldn't have a pink emory cloth or something stuck in it like you said before.

 

[Lsingle]

It may cause problems with creosote buildup in that area. But again something else is going on. It the bottom of the liner sealed?

Yes sealed well

 

[Lsingle]

I apologise if I missed this one, but have you tried disconnecting the oak kit and running the stove with a nearby window part way open?
Wondering if there is a restriction there.
I have heard of folks using a dryer termination cap on the OAK and not removing the flapper.

It sounds like your operating the stove correct for the most part. So like others I'm just trying to think of potential issues.

Yes it's doesnt make much difference

 

[bholler]

Yes sealed well

How is it sealed?

 

[Lsingle]

How is it sealed?

With the masonry call stuff. I think it's called fire lock 36 from 3m. I coated the outside and then puddied it up from the inside as well. And the smoothed it over

 

[bholler]

With the masonry call stuff. I think it's called fire lock 36 from 3m. I coated the outside and then puddied it up from the inside as well. And the smoothed it over

Is the liner extended down to the cleanout? Is that liner then sealed to the chimney? It would be much easier if you just posted pics of all of the parts of the system and how everything is hooked up

 

[Ashful]

Summary:

1. OP’s named 450F is actually on outside of single-wall pipe, likely closer to 900F flue gas temp. They report when temps are 150F higher (external), there is no issue.

2. OP is running an uninsulated liner in an exterior masonry stack. Obvious cooling issues.

3. OP has extension pipe atop this rig that is single-wall pipe, even more severe cooling issue.

It seems pretty clear to me that all theories on malfunctioning thermostats and improper OAK hookup are secondary to the confluence of these three factors. You need to find a way to minimize heat loss from that chimney, with some combination of insulation, block-offs, and changing that single-wall pipe atop the thing.

 

[Socratic Monologue]

For $30 and a half hour of work, I'd get a manometer and check the draft. The manual doesn't specify a measurement, but it might be informative.

The pics of the fire itself look to me like smaller splits might be in order. I don't start a fire with big splits like that. Experimenting with different wood sizes/species/sources might help you to fine tune your burning practices.

 

[Highbeam]

1. OP’s named 450F is actually on outside of single-wall pipe, likely closer to 900F flue gas temp. They report when temps are 150F higher (external), there is no issue.

On this one, the whole data point is bogus. He is measuring the temperature of the flue collar with an IR gun. It's basically stove top temperature and 450 on a noncat is way too low.

Unlike most stoves, this stove's intake is turned up by pushing it in. He could just be operating it backwards.

 

[begreen]

There's a small piece of single wall pipe coming out of the stove I read it there with a laser thermometer.

The surface of the flue pipe was over 650 and I shut the door it drops down to 450 within minutes

You are confusing us. Is this on the stove's flue collar or on a piece of single wall stove pipe. That is very hot for a surface reading on single-wall stove pipe. Even 450 is hot but a lot better. Normal cruising temp for the flue pipe measured that way would be around 300º.

 

[begreen]

On this one, the whole data point is bogus. He is measuring the temperature of the flue collar with an IR gun. It's basically stove top temperature and 450 on a noncat is way too low.

I tend to agree except that the flue collar will typically read hotter than the stove top.

 

[Ashful]

But I thought he said single wall pipe, not stove collar. How did I miss that?