Killing our planet with plastics

  • Active since 1995, Hearth.com is THE place on the internet for free information and advice about wood stoves, pellet stoves and other energy saving equipment.

    We strive to provide opinions, articles, discussions and history related to Hearth Products and in a more general sense, energy issues.

    We promote the EFFICIENT, RESPONSIBLE, CLEAN and SAFE use of all fuels, whether renewable or fossil.
  • Hope everyone has a wonderful and warm Thanksgiving!
  • Super Cedar firestarters 30% discount Use code Hearth2024 Click here
begreen said:
It is a big enough problem that legislation was put in place to ban them. It's an issue for septic systems too, but not as much as microfibers from synthetic clothing, especially fleece. Microbeads and fibers can pass thru to the soil distribution where they may eventually plug when your septic drain field filter. Also, when a system tank is pumped, where is it dumped?

https://pumpgrump.com/tiny-terrorists-in-your-septic-system/
https://wilsonservices.com/microfibers-septic-care-new-wastewater-treatment-challenge/
Click to expand...

A properly functioning septic system shouldn't ever need to be pumped, but you bring up a valid point. In fact, everyone in NC I knew with a septic tank has needed it to be pumped multiple times over the last year due to all of the rain. I hadn't thought of synthetic fibers at all, thank you for mentioning it. We are trying to not buy any more synthetic materials whenever possible. It's amazing how pervasive petrochemicals really are.
 
Septic systems regularly need to have the solids pumped out that accumulate over time. Household septic tanks are typically pumped every three to five years. How frequently will depend on the tank and household sizes and lifestyle. Then there are circumstances that can accelerate the pumpout schedule. If you suddenly have 10 people staying for a wedding or other event, for example. Heavy antibiotic or chemotherapy drugs use is another issue, misuse is yet another common one, (tissues, kitty litter, garbage disposal, etc.).
https://inspectapedia.com/septic/Septic_Tank_Pumping_Schedule.php
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ashful and SpaceBus
Again worldwide population will determine how fast things go downhill. Each person times x number of consumables. Were living on a larger version of Easter Island.
 
Seasoned Oak said:
Again worldwide population will determine how fast things go downhill. Each person times x number of consumables. Were living on a larger version of Easter Island.
Click to expand...
Yup, that's why China (and India) cannot commit to "reasonable" increases in future climate targets.

We want to look at their past & present pollution and GHG numbers, and use those as anchor numbers.
They know as their vast population transitions from 3rd world into middle class consumerism, each person's energy consumption and personal pollution & waste rises (on a per person basis).

That means they'll have problems replacing those "coal polluters" with newer clean tech, because they'll need em just to keep up with growth/demand. Maybe run em even harder if they go thru normal economic downturns.
 
  • Like
Reactions: SpaceBus
China is a huge topic, with some mind-boggling statistics. It deserves its own thread because they are using some strategies that would be impossible here. They don't mind starting with a clean slate if it is the best way to achieve their objective. That includes complete, giant cities from scratch which allow them to put in infrastructure to better deal with waste and provide the newest technologies. So far, they have been quite successful. India otoh has not so far except in some smaller areas like Bangalore, Hyderabad, Gurgaon, Noida, yet India population is exploding.

That said, this thread should stick to the topic of plastics. Another thread either on developing nations, China or the 600# gorilla in the room, over-population would be a better place to expand on these interesting and important topics.
 
SpaceBus said:
A properly functioning septic system shouldn't ever need to be pumped, but you bring up a valid point. In fact, everyone in NC I knew with a septic tank has needed it to be pumped multiple times over the last year due to all of the rain. I hadn't thought of synthetic fibers at all, thank you for mentioning it. We are trying to not buy any more synthetic materials whenever possible. It's amazing how pervasive petrochemicals really are.
Click to expand...
Non-organic materials (minerals) and synthetics that don't break down biologically in a septic tank will accumulate there and require eventual removal - a lot like ash in a wood stove.
I installed a filter between our septic tank and drain field to capture synthetic fibers that will collect and hinder infiltration. This should hopefully extend the life of our drain field. Coincidentally a semi-yearly reminder popped up today for me to clean the filter. :)

Edit: for fun sometime, filter the water coming out of your clothes washer. I was astounded by the amount of synthetic fiber (and pet hair) in ours.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: SpaceBus
semipro said:
Non-organic materials (minerals) and synthetics that don't break down biologically in a septic tank will accumulate there and require eventual removal - a lot like ash in a wood stove.
I installed a filter between our septic tank and drain field to capture synthetic fibers that will collect and hinder infiltration. This should hopefully extend the life of our drain field. Coincidentally a semi-yearly reminder popped up today for me to clean the filter. :)

Edit: for fun sometime, filter the water coming out of your clothes washer. I was astounded by the amount of synthetic fiber (and pet hair) in ours.
Click to expand...

We don't have a washer, yet, but we do have three dogs. I fill a Dyson canister every day.
 
SpaceBus said:
We don't have a washer, yet, but we do have three dogs. I fill a Dyson canister every day.
Click to expand...
IIRC hair and fingernails act a lot like synthetics in that they take quite a long time to break down biologically.
 
  • Like
Reactions: SpaceBus
semipro said:
IIRC hair and fingernails act a lot like synthetics in that they take quite a long time to break down biologically.
Click to expand...
I'll have to talk to the plumber about a drain filter.
 
semipro said:
Edit: for fun sometime, filter the water coming out of your clothes washer. I was astounded by the amount of synthetic fiber (and pet hair) in ours.
Click to expand...
I drain my washer into a slop sink, and I do this by tying a woman's stocking over the end of the drain hose. Amazing how much lint is captured in a few washes.
If I didn't do that I'd run my washer into a separate dry-well.
 
CaptSpiff said:
I drain my washer into a slop sink, and I do this by tying a woman's stocking over the end of the drain hose
Click to expand...
We recently added a utility sink and relocated our clothes washer nearby so we just discharge to that sink now. A screen strainer in the bottom collects the lint. We have to clean it with almost every washer load.
[Hearth.com] Killing our planet with plastics
 
This thread has been a real eye-opener. I had no idea!

We are also trying to maximize the life of an old drain field, as our only replacement option is putting in a very inconvenient mound, and pumping up-hill to it. Not attractive.
 
If we look back over the decades of past health scares, one thing that’s been pretty consistent is the medical establishment’s inability, or decades-long delays in being able to tie effects to their causes. Using the cellular telephone as a great example, we have had the ability to measure the electric and magnetic field strengths at various distances for 100 years, but it’s nearly always multiple decades past the obsolescence and decommissioning of any cellular protocol before the medical folks have any consensus as to its effect on the users. Heck, they’re just wrapping up many studies on the health effects of exposure to radiation levels commensurate with your father’s 1980’s car phone, in the last two years!

Unfortunately, it appears to me that microplastics are falling into the same trap. We can detect and measure the content of microplastics in our food and water supplies, and everyone is making gross (and almost certainly wrong) assumptions as to the health risk they create. It will likely be decades before that is really understood.

This isn’t an argument to ignore the problem, just an observation, when I see articles like the one above opening with statements about their disastrous effects on our health. That is an assumption, with very little evidence behind it. It is an emotional response to a scientific problem.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Woody5506
Ashful said:
If we look back over the decades of past health scares, one thing that’s been pretty consistent is the medical establishment’s inability, or decades-long delays in being able to tie effects to their causes. Using the cellular telephone as a great example, we have had the ability to measure the electric and magnetic field strengths at various distances for 100 years, but it’s nearly always multiple decades past the obsolescence and decommissioning of any cellular protocol before the medical folks have any consensus as to its effect on the users. Heck, they’re just wrapping up many studies on the health effects of exposure to radiation levels commensurate with your father’s 1980’s car phone, in the last two years!

Unfortunately, it appears to me that microplastics are falling into the same trap. We can detect and measure the content of microplastics in our food and water supplies, and everyone is making gross (and almost certainly wrong) assumptions as to the health risk they create. It will likely be decades before that is really understood.

This isn’t an argument to ignore the problem, just an observation, when I see articles like the one above opening with statements about their disastrous effects on our health. That is an assumption, with very little evidence behind it. It is an emotional response to a scientific problem.
Click to expand...

I am 100% certain ingesting petrochemicals is bad.
 
From what i understand rainwater is as pure as distilled water initially, but the air is not pure. Im betting all the pollutants in rain water come from passing through polluted air so the article is a bit misleading.
 
Seasoned Oak said:
From what i understand rainwater is as pure as distilled water initially, but the air is not pure. Im betting all the pollutants in rain water come from passing through polluted air so the article is a bit misleading.
Click to expand...
Unless the small plastic particles are becoming airborne like Saharan dust that makes its way across the Atlantic.
 
CaptSpiff said:
Nerd mode triggered...

Isn't the formation of raindrops based on the presence of "condensation nuclei"?

Think plastic dust??
Click to expand...

Maybe microplastics are the solution for some of our drought issues. People in South America don’t have enough water, thanks to Avacado farmers taking it all for irrigation of trendy Europeon exports. Answer: microplastics!

Of course I’m being facetious.
 
  • Like
Reactions: SpaceBus
Ashful said:
If we look back over the decades of past health scares, one thing that’s been pretty consistent is the medical establishment’s inability, or decades-long delays in being able to tie effects to their causes. Using the cellular telephone as a great example, we have had the ability to measure the electric and magnetic field strengths at various distances for 100 years, but it’s nearly always multiple decades past the obsolescence and decommissioning of any cellular protocol before the medical folks have any consensus as to its effect on the users. Heck, they’re just wrapping up many studies on the health effects of exposure to radiation levels commensurate with your father’s 1980’s car phone, in the last two years!

Unfortunately, it appears to me that microplastics are falling into the same trap. We can detect and measure the content of microplastics in our food and water supplies, and everyone is making gross (and almost certainly wrong) assumptions as to the health risk they create. It will likely be decades before that is really understood.

This isn’t an argument to ignore the problem, just an observation, when I see articles like the one above opening with statements about their disastrous effects on our health. That is an assumption, with very little evidence behind it. It is an emotional response to a scientific problem.
Click to expand...
While true that we will be studying this for years, there is an ample body of science proving that the bioaccumulation of plastics have harmful effects on animals. Mammals bioaccumulate in fatty tissue. Not good for women at all. The fossil fuel/petrochemical industry is banking on the delayed, provable effect on humans, but scientists are already sounding the alarm

The big issue is that while research continues, these particles of plastic aren't disappearing. They just continue to break down into tinier nano-plastic particles. These get airborne, they pass through filters, they are in bottled water. As the particles break down, the "stable" long-chain molecules breakdown and release toxins that were used to create these ubiquitous plastics. Toxins like BPA and phthalates. BPA is a known endocrine disrupter. Most concerning is once they are small enough to show up in the bloodstream. This is a global catastrophe developing and yet the fossil fuel industry has the pedal to the floor, building more refineries and producing a great deal more plastics.

Here is a tiny sample of recent research. There has been a lot in the past several years. No one is saying this is a trivial problem:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6132564/
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s13181-018-0661-9
https://www.news-medical.net/news/20100320/Impact-of-plastics-on-human-health-and-ecosystems.aspx
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Ashful
This was on the wires today. Plastic particles are showing up in arctic ice cores and in snowfalls in the Alps. This illustrates how planet-wide the terrifying problem is.
“Once we’ve determined that large quantities of microplastic can also be transported by the air, it naturally raises the question as to whether and how much plastic we’re inhaling,” Bergmann said in a statement.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...ind-micro-plastic-in-arctic-ice-idUSKCN1V41V2
 
  • Like
Reactions: SpaceBus and Ashful
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom