Isle Royale Smoking... a lot

[js156]

Thank you all very much for your input. Although I initially wanted to gather the heat from the single wall pipe but I will put the insulated pipe back on.
Kobeman, when the service rep from the dealer was out he did look at that and I saw the steel "slide" go over the steel of the stove but I know what you mean. I'm also fairly certain that he put it back together with silicone; it wasn't fire caulk. Even with the 1/4" bolts in the 1/4" holes and the 5/16" bolt in the 3/8" hole I can still have a full fire. I don't know where it is getting the air.
This video clip is short but it shows my fire burning with the bolts in the holes - I don't know if they are the doghouse holes but I'm guessing that they are.
The logs are one layer high and I guess 3 or 4 deep. It's burning good but I can't slow it any, which I wish I could when it pins the temperature gauge. I think the option of a longer slower burn has many benefits. The primary and secondary are closed and the manometer read .08.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/73330363@N05/15755070060/

You can click on the video and that will pause it. Again, thank you for your help.

 

[js156]

What do you think? Is 725-750 too much with the draft at -.05 and the primary and secondary closed?
I did double check the tempurature gauges readings with my infrared thermometer and the readings are the same.
Happy new year and Merry Christmas!

 

[Jags]

I don't have a manometer so I can't respond to the readings other than temp. 725-750 is getting on the high side for sustained temps. The stove can handle it, but I don't think I would run it like that as a constant. I can see premature failure of internal components like the burn tubes or the angle iron holding the back bricks in, etc.

 

[js156]

Thank you Jags. If I should not run it like that constantly and I can't turn it down what do I need to do to get this to burn lower, and I guess ultimately, slower? (In your opinion) Thanks!

 

[Jags]

In my opinion - I would be looking at trying to keep the stove at less than 700F for a constant run. Fire requires three components (as I am sure you know): The obvious ones to control is Fuel and Oxygen. I would start with oxygen. The IR is a known easy breathing stove. I would be looking at methods to make it take harder breaths.

 

[northwinds]

The normal way to make it take harder breaths is to turn the air down. But the Isle Royale is only one part of a system--your chimney being
the other part. Other people with really long chimneys have also had trouble keeping temps lower. Hopefully, you will figure out a cycle
that works for you, which would probably include using your damper, closing the secondary soon in the burning cycle, using big splits
packed closely together, raking the coal bed forward at reload time so that the fire catches in the front first and moves to the back during the
cycle. You're going to have to figure out what works for you. Temps in the 700's are certainly better than the 800's, but most of us try to shoot
for 650-675 for peak burning temps. I rarely hit 700 unless I'm lax in turning the air down early enough in the cycle.

 

[js156]

Northwinds thank you too for the reply.
I have a question regarding chimney height, does the height of the chimney matter (within reason) if the draft pressure is set to -.05? Naturally I use the manometer and the damper to achieve this. My manual does read that during the burn I should have it higher at -.10. But doing that will only raise my temps and shorten my already short burn times. Although, on the plus side I'm sure my glass would not get covered in black as the air wash would then work.
I'm not sure if this is already clear so I just want to say, I can burn my stove hotter then 725-750 but this is just the lowest I have been able to burn it.
Not all of the time but I'd say at least 90 percent of the time the stove burns starting from the rear right corner, for what its worth. The picture I have posted is typical.
I would think I should be able to turn the stove down from 725-750 if I wanted to, right?
Thank you.

 

[northwinds]

Northwinds thank you too for the reply.
I have a question regarding chimney height, does the height of the chimney matter (within reason) if the draft pressure is set to -.05? Naturally I use the manometer and the damper to achieve this. My manual does read that during the burn I should have it higher at -.10. But doing that will only raise my temps and shorten my already short burn times. Although, on the plus side I'm sure my glass would not get covered in black as the air wash would then work.
I'm not sure if this is already clear so I just want to say, I can burn my stove hotter then 725-750 but this is just the lowest I have been able to burn it.
Not all of the time but I'd say at least 90 percent of the time the stove burns starting from the rear right corner, for what its worth. The picture I have posted is typical.
I would think I should be able to turn the stove down from 725-750 if I wanted to, right?
Thank you.

Actually, no. Stoves don't work like gas burners where you can just turn it down. The key is to keep it from getting that high in the first place by reducing the air way before it gets to 725.

If you have truly been vigilant about reducing the primary air, the Isle Royale has done all that it can do in terms of control. The rest is up to you and your chimney system.

Everyone has a unique setup to some degree. My Isle Royale doesn't operate anything like yours. The air controls are very responsive so long as I'm under 700 degrees. My "sweet spot", where the stove runs best, is 90-95% totally closed. Most of my fires top out at 650. This isn't because my Isle Royale is different than yours. It's because my system(which includes my chimney, house, roof line, basement stove location, stove operation, split sizes, firewood moisture) is different than yours. Each of those variables changes the outcome, much in the way that changing an ingredient will result in a recipe coming out differently. Most of us have to putter around to figure out how the right combination for the best outcome. It isn't as simple as turning down the thermostat.

 

[Ash]

I would think I should be able to turn the stove down from 725-750 if I wanted to, right?
Thank you.

No. On most stoves including the isle royale you will not be able to lower the temperature once it reaches that point, in fact many times it will continue to rise.

 

[js156]

Ash, thank you for the reply.
How do I keep the stove from reaching these high tempuratures in the first place? I am already keeping my draft at half what the manual requests for burning which is -.10 and it just keeps on overfiring. Naturally at -.10 it would burn even more hot and more fast. Both my primary and secondary are rarely, rarely used. If I do use either of them I never leave the stove with them open. If I need to get my stove burning I just open the damper. This raises the draft to usually around -.10, maybe -.13, and when it gets established I close it back to -.05.
Right now for example I just got in and had to restart the fire from this morning. The fire initially wasn't going well so I opened the damper (air controls closed) my manometer read .09. My stove top temp was 250. Since the fire picked up I closed the damper to .05 on my manometer. This will not stop the stove from reaching 725/750 once it gets going.
Thank you.

 

[begreen]

How tall is the chimney on this stove? It may need a key damper. How thick are the splits that it is burning and what species wood? Is the startup air control closed and off?

 

[js156]

Begreen, I do have a key damper installed and the primaries and secondaries are rarely used. If I need to get my fire going I just open my pipe damper as I said in the post just above yours. I get my wood from the same dealer as my neighbor and his stove, a Jotul, acts nothing like mine. Thank you

 

[begreen]

.1 is strong draft, especially with a key damper fully closed. That may be the issue. The IR is an easy breathing stove.

 

[northwinds]

If I recall correctly, his chimney is 27 feet high. Another post indicated that he added another 3 feet to meet the roofline rule.
30 foot of chimney plus easy-breathing stove= perfect storm for overdraft.

 

[js156]

My manual reads that I should burn it at -.10. But as I said, today (please see my post at 3:27) with the damper open my manometer read -.09. I closed my damper somewhat to burn it at -.05 and it still overfires. thank you!

 

[Ash]

Ash, thank you for the reply.
How do I keep the stove from reaching these high tempuratures in the first place? I am already keeping my draft at half what the manual requests for burning which is -.10 and it just keeps on overfiring. Naturally at -.10 it would burn even more hot and more fast. Both my primary and secondary are rarely, rarely used. If I do use either of them I never leave the stove with them open. If I need to get my stove burning I just open the damper. This raises the draft to usually around -.10, maybe -.13, and when it gets established I close it back to -.05.
Right now for example I just got in and had to restart the fire from this morning. The fire initially wasn't going well so I opened the damper (air controls closed) my manometer read .09. My stove top temp was 250. Since the fire picked up I closed the damper to .05 on my manometer. This will not stop the stove from reaching 725/750 once it gets going.
Thank you.

Js, the isle royale only has a primary air control and start up air control, no secondary control. I rarely if ever use the start up air. I keep the primary open until stove top reaches about 450 then start shutting it down. I have it fully closed at about 575 to 600 and stove will rise to about 650 or 700 and settle in there. With a full bed of coals I may close it up sooner and quicker. I can't speak to draft numbers as I have no experience with them.

 

[Kobeman]

For what its worth My Inferno stove top gauge reads 50 -75 deg high and I level out about where yours is in the pic so I guess it runs around 675- 700. My pipe doesnt run redlined tho I can keep it at arounf 700 as well. I've got the big round hole underneath covered halfway with tinfoil and magnets, not dure if it affects it much as there are alot of gaps underthere for air to get in but if your key is closed, slider is closed, I'd try to cover that hole. I follow these post close as I try to gain knowelge from other owners on here, I see Isle Royale in the subject and get all pumped up!!

 

[Kobeman]

Also, the paper clip trick I lernt about on here works great! Puts my mind at ease when I come home from work and can see it didnt climb out, also makes it easier to see when it levels out.

 

[northwinds]

Js,

Is there another Quad dealer in your area who can check out the system and show you how to start and maintain a safe fire?

 

[js156]

Thank you to everyone, I am most grateful for the help.
Kobe, you'll have to tell me about the paperclip! Also, I calibrated/adjusted my tempurature gauges by using a needlenose pliers and turning the chrome rivet in the center until the needle matched my infrared gun. It takes a couple of tries but it can be done.
Northwinds, I did contact a couple of dealers in my area to see if they had an Isle Royale fired up so I could see what tempuratures it operates. Although I didn't find that I did speak with someone who previously had it burning but just stopped this year to burn another model. I did ask him about burn temps and times and his information was a lot different than the recent posts here. He said that on his 26 foot chimney he never needed a pipe damper and could adjust the primary to keep the surface temp at 400 degrees. His claimed burn times were much better than mine; understandably. Mine are short and hot. My burns are too rapid for my liking and my house of about 2900 sf gets too hot for my comfort, even when its 25 outside. Truthfully, I don't think I need any help in starting a fire, I just want to slow it down and I can't do it.
I am very sorry to read here, in this forum, that I should expect 725 when I have everything closed up and my draft set to -.05! I think that is crazy! My floor plan is also open, like really open, with 9' , 10 and 18" ceilings on my first floor and this thing has me opening windows! Seriously. Who would want this? I was really hoping there was more that could be done to tone this thing down but I'm not reading that! I can see 750 800 maybe with the primary fully open but not when its closed up. I guess opened up it can reach 1000. I'll never know as I'll never do that. I don't think anybody ever will. Why would they? As always, thank you everyone for chiming in!!

 

[Ash]

Js, if it hasn't already been mentioned here one thing I'd check if your stove is burning to hot would be to make sure the ash pan door is shut tight and seals up properly.

 

[Kobeman]

Just straighten out a paper clip and set it on like so, the needle will push it around and leave it where max was, I'll have to try to calibrate mine someday, thanks for the tip

 

[northwinds]

No pipe damper. Slow burn. 500 degrees. Wood charred in front, wood uncharred in back. Air 90% closed.

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[js156]

Northwinds, I am soooo envious. Will you PLEASE trade stoves with me?

 

[js156]

Well, here's what I have. A pipe damper set at a low -.06 draft, with the air controls 100 % closed. Now in reading the two descriptions, and not looking at the videos, I would expect to see your fire looking larger than mine but that is not the case. To me, my fire looks maybe 10 times bigger than yours. Does anybody have any ideas as to why?
Thank you.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/73330363@N05/15998825207/