Isle Royale Smoking... a lot

[MattFoley772]

Woody Stover,
You forgot to quote the parts regarding the dealers service tech who wouldn't address the loose glass panels and who also did not believe in the dollar bill test. As far as manuals, not only do they get read they are also all saved in a in a hanging file labeled as such. I personally think the installers should have given the stove a going over for leaks before they left but the interest wasn't there. Wasn't my chimney 3" short too?
I do hope that the tall chimney isn't my problem because it is still just as tall and the new dealer and Quad are letting me do it so...Actually the new dealer doesn't think the chimneys height is an issue at all. He said that he has had them a lot higher than that.

Begreen, I don't have the code section yet but when I do I'll post it.

Close reading of the Isle Royale manual (version March 21, 2013) raises some questions. I wonder if Quadrafire is aware of this ambiguity in their manual.

1. Excerpts on code:
NOTE: This installation must conform with local codes. In the absence of local codes you must comply with the UL1482, UL737, (UM) 84-HUD and NPFA211 in the U.S.A. and the ULC S627-93 and CAN/CSA-B365 Installation C odes in Canada.

vs.
Check building codes prior to installation.
• Installation MUST comply with local, regional, state and national codes and regulations.
​

Which is it: local code or local, regional, state and national codes?

2. Excerpts on chimney height:
This product was designed for and tested on a 6 inch ( 152mm) chimney, 12 to 14 feet (420-480cm) high, (includes stove height) measured from the base of the appliance to the top of the chimney (not including chimney cap). T he further your stack height or diameter varies from this configuration, the possibility of performance problems exists.

vs.
Must terminate at least 3 feet (91cm) above the roof
and at least 2 feet (61cm) above any portion of the
roof within 1 0 feet (305cm).
vs.
These are safety requirements and are not meant to ensure proper flue draft.
vs.
Chimney height may need adjustment if smoking or
overdraft occurs.
vs.
Check for correct vent height; too much vertical
height creates overdrafting.
​

Let's review: stove was designed for chimney height 12-14 ft. Suppose following 2-3-10 rule results in chimney height of 24 ft. and therefore overdrafting. Ok, tell me how to adjust the height (lower the height) without violating the 2-3-10 rule. Show me the code that addresses this.

3. Excerpt on overfiring:

Do NOT Overfire - If appliance or chimney connector glows, you are overfiring.
​

So, stove can be overdrafting and reading 750 degrees on top but that's ok as long as it's not glowing?

 

[brad wilton]

Instruction manuals for wood stoves seem to be very vague at times .mine was a photocopy that basically said it burns wood

 

[surfing woodsman]

Getting into this chat a little late but I have used pallet wood cut down to small kindling size to get the heat back up in a short period of time. Not to familiar with this stove but if it has a cat then i would disengage it before you reload and allow for a straight draft if applicable. My old Vermont Encore had that ability and prevented smoke back. I have found that the manual for the NC-30 to be helpful..


http://www.homedepot.com/catalog/pdfImages/e3/e3dda524-8c99-482d-af74-764abbb59fef.pdf

 

[begreen]

The local inspecting authority, usually at the county or township level ultimately has the final say. State or national code can be adopted or sometimes not. Rules often have exceptions. Also, there are different codes and regs for different components of an installation. The stove and flue are under different regs than the mechanical and building codes that say where a stove or return vent near the stove can be placed, or not. Some jurisdictions allow stoves to be put in a garage for example, though most do not. Maine is the only state I think that still allows two devices on one chimney.Then there a

I don't see anything in the manual or code that prohibits or suggests a key damper is not a good solution for overdrafting. Quad is telling you what they tested the stove with. They are not telling you the installation limits for chimney height. Of course a 2 story house install is going to have a taller chimney than a one story install. They don't need to state the obvious.

Not all manuals are created equal. Some lack even the basics, like the stove measurements. Some sound more like a lawyer wrote them than a knowledgeable writer. It's rare to find one that is strong on all accounts and variables that one can come across in varied installations. Field experience, code and installer knowledge are all valuable when solving an installation problem. In this case, Quad has given some guidance. Most stoves will list 15-16ft chimney height for what the stove has been tested with. 12 ft is unusual and an indication that the stove is a easy-breathing stove. Field experience has proven this true. As far as when to add a damper to reduce draft is a tougher question. It often needs to be judged by the home. We have seen here repeatedly where one person will have a 20ft chimney that "draws like a freight train" and another with a 24' chimney that is having draft problems. There are interior and exterior influences on draft that are hard to capture entirely in documentation. In part, this is why on the first page they say:
Installation and service of this appliance should be performed by qualified personnel. Hearth & Home Technologies recommends NFI certified professionals, or technicians supervised by an NFI certified professional.

 

[Woody Stover]

Close reading of the Isle Royale manual (version March 21, 2013) raises some questions. I wonder if Quadrafire is aware of this ambiguity in their manual.

We must be interpreting it differently; That all makes sense to me.

 

[MattFoley772]

The local inspecting authority, usually at the county or township level ultimately has the final say. State or national code can be adopted or sometimes not. Rules often have exceptions. Also, there are different codes and regs for different components of an installation. The stove and flue are under different regs than the mechanical and building codes that say where a stove or return vent near the stove can be placed, or not.

"Rules have exceptions" and "use a qualified installer" may be true but it's not very specific to this situation (overdraft).

Inspector has final say...based on the code. Any exceptions must be allowed by code. His authority does not give him the right to make exceptions to code; it gives him the right to enforce code. Would you agree? We agree that the IR manual offers no help about fixing overdraft, so I'm back to my question: Someone show me the code that the inspector or installation professional can cite as a solution to overdraft, such as "the 2-3-10 height may be waived in cases of overdraft" or "install a key damper" or something.

 

[js156]

Hello! I'm happy to say that my replacement stove was installed on Monday the 13th and it is such a different burning experience. The people who installed it were professional, they didn't rush and stayed a bit to watch the fire and give me some guidance in its operation and care. I can't tell you how surprised I was to see that I could put out the fire by closing the primary. If you remember, I always burned the stove with the primary closed and tried to control the temperature with my damper that I sealed with fire caulk because even when it was horizontal I was still hitting 7 or 800. That day, after 4 hours, I checked the griddle for a temp and I saw 385, without a damper! I was stunned. Naturally I didn't have it stuffed but that never mattered before! Anyway, it's been a long time and I wanted to let you all know how I made out. Thank you all so much and Quad too for stepping in after my dealer disappeared.

 

[Jags]

Excellent. Its too bad that you had the negative experience in the first place, but now you will be able to see what this stove was designed to do.

 

[Warm_in_NH]

Nice! Good to hear.

 

[rideau]

Very glad to hear that things are sorted out.

Just think what a pleasure your next burning season will be!

Will look forward to seeing your results next year.

 

[begreen]

I'm really happy for you, made my day to read this. Complaints about the IR are rare. It is an excellent time proven stove. You should have a much happier time burning next season.

 

[northwinds]

A long strange trip it's been, but you appear set for next year. Glad it all worked out for you, Quad, and the new dealer.

 

[MattFoley772]

Hello! I'm happy to say that my replacement stove was installed on Monday the 13th and it is such a different burning experience. The people who installed it were professional, they didn't rush and stayed a bit to watch the fire and give me some guidance in its operation and care. I can't tell you how surprised I was to see that I could put out the fire by closing the primary. If you remember, I always burned the stove with the primary closed and tried to control the temperature with my damper that I sealed with fire caulk because even when it was horizontal I was still hitting 7 or 800. That day, after 4 hours, I checked the griddle for a temp and I saw 385, without a damper! I was stunned. Naturally I didn't have it stuffed but that never mattered before! Anyway, it's been a long time and I wanted to let you all know how I made out. Thank you all so much and Quad too for stepping in after my dealer disappeared.

Not enough info in your post.

You are comparing apples to oranges. You need to compare the hottest temp after the same time using same amount of wood, same air setting, same outside temperature. You say new stove was 385 degrees after 4 hours vs. old stove 800 degrees...after 4 hours? I will bet you $10 your old stove was not 800 degrees after 4 hours.

"The people who installed..." Who might that be? How'd you find them? What did they charge?

Did they do anything other than swap stoves, such as change chimney height?

Did they look at the old stove and determine what caused the problems you had?

 

[bholler]

You are comparing apples to oranges. You need to compare the hottest temp after the same time using same amount of wood, same air setting, same outside temperature. You say new stove was 385 degrees after 4 hours vs. old stove 800 degrees...after 4 hours? I will bet you $10 your old stove was not 800 degrees after 4 hours.
"The people who installed..." Who might that be? How'd you find them? What did they charge?
Did they do anything other than swap stoves, such as change chimney height?
Did they look at the old stove and determine what caused the problems you had?

The old stove had leaky gaskets which that combined with the high chimney caused over fires which damaged the stove further. The op said the stove works better than the old one ever did that is what matters you dont need an exact equal comparison it works now that is what matters.