I didn't know this: Cat vs non-Cat

[Ludlow]

Feel free to delete my posts that strayed, or I can do it.

 

[Highbeam]

It is not penny wise and pound foolish, it is economics. A decent non-cat stove can go 10 yrs and only have a gasket replacement. Spending $1000+ for expendables over say a 10yr period is worse than having to rebuild a VC stove every 10 yrs.

So just in response to you bg, I think it is penny wise and pound foolish to complain about cat cost if you consider the value of wood saved against the cost of that cat. Almost everybody that has made the switch to a cat stove reports significant wood savings. Fuel has value and that savings should be counted towards the cost of the cat.

I don’t see why this isn’t obvious.

I do understand that every once in a while somebody doesn’t seem to save wood when burning a cat stove but most do. If you don’t believe that then a quick poll is in order. I save over 20%.

Maybe I’m missing something?

 

[ratsrepus]

I would have a problem if I had to replace the cat every year, but once every 3 or 4 years is no big deal.

 

[ryanwc]

Pattern change coming in two weeks, cold and snow for the northeast and midwest.

I kept the faith. I knew this thread would deliver some good news for everyone eventually!

 

[AlbergSteve]

My take is, you probably don't "save" wood if you don't have much of a shoulder season. It seems for many people on these forums that they don't bother lighting a fire unless it's cold enough to warrant it. We start burning at the end of September and the stove runs 24/7 until May-ish. We can do that because we can turn down the stove and let it cruise for 20-24 hours on low without cooking us out of the house - we load it once a day and forget it. Now you're going to say if I had a tube stove(like my Regency f2400), I could just make a smaller fire. Yes, I could, but to keep a nice even temperature in the house I'd have to feed that stove two sticks of wood every two to three hours and for most people that just won't happen. Even loading up for an overnight burn we'd be too hot in the middle of the night. Most of the time our open plan living area was over 27C. The joke around the house was "don't just walk in the front door, ring the bell because Steve might not be appropriately attired!" We wasted a lot of BTU's because we always had a window or door cracked open somewhere.

We really enjoy the convenience of loading once and walking away untill the next day. We really enjoy the comfort of having the house at 21-23C, 24/7 for eleven months of the year. With the tube stove, I hated getting up every morning to a cold house to make a fire and wait three hours for the house to get comfortable. Sure, I could just turn the thermostat on the furnace on to cover the cold spells when the fire went out, but why when I've got 16 cords of wood in the shed?

 

[jatoxico]

I don't really understand the no shoulder season thing. I accept that a cat stove allows you to burn wood more often and at times when a regular stove would run you out.

 

[weatherguy]

I agree with the shoulder season analogy, if your climate is 30s-40s for highs and 20s-30s for lows for 7-8 months I bet you can save a lot of wood with a cat stove. I burn the same amount now as I did with the BK but I have a hybrid so might not be a good comparison.

 

[SpaceBus]

Cat stoves are better at some things, tube stoves better at others. Cat stoves seem like the way to go in a milder climate. If you have a well insulated house, a tube stove could work too as you would only need a couple of small fires a day. It all depends on how you like to solve problems.

 

[Diabel]

My friend runs a non cat insert (1.5 - 1.8 cubic), beautiful visual effects, clean glass and emission while in secondary and coaling. He reloads about every 4 hrs. It works if you are retired perhaps.

 

[bholler]

My friend runs a non cat insert (1.5 - 1.8 cubic), beautiful visual effects, clean glass and emission while in secondary and coaling. He reloads about every 4 hrs. It works if you are retired perhaps.

Well yeah a stove that small will have short burn times.

 

[ratsrepus]

My take is, you probably don't "save" wood if you don't have much of a shoulder season. It seems for many people on these forums that they don't bother lighting a fire unless it's cold enough to warrant it. We start burning at the end of September and the stove runs 24/7 until May-ish. We can do that because we can turn down the stove and let it cruise for 20-24 hours on low without cooking us out of the house - we load it once a day and forget it. Now you're going to say if I had a tube stove(like my Regency f2400), I could just make a smaller fire. Yes, I could, but to keep a nice even temperature in the house I'd have to feed that stove two sticks of wood every two to three hours and for most people that just won't happen. Even loading up for an overnight burn we'd be too hot in the middle of the night. Most of the time our open plan living area was over 27C. The joke around the house was "don't just walk in the front door, ring the bell because Steve might not be appropriately attired!" We wasted a lot of BTU's because we always had a window or door cracked open somewhere.

We really enjoy the convenience of loading once and walking away untill the next day. We really enjoy the comfort of having the house at 21-23C, 24/7 for eleven months of the year. With the tube stove, I hated getting up every morning to a cold house to make a fire and wait three hours for the house to get comfortable. Sure, I could just turn the thermostat on the furnace on to cover the cold spells when the fire went out, but why when I've got 16 cords of wood in the shed?

I like the 24 hrs duration also.

 

[bholler]

I like the 24 hrs duration also.

I would to but my house would be cold if I was running 24 hrs.

I have saved no wood after switching

 

[jetsam]

I got a request to reopen the thread. Didn't know it was locked as I just responded to the tapatalk email and didn't read the prior chatter. Now open but will be closed if it drifts badly again.

You can't close the 'cat vs noncat' topic anyway. It's like pulling bamboo shoots. Or perhaps more aptly, plugging leaks in sewage lines.

 

[SpaceBus]

My friend runs a non cat insert (1.5 - 1.8 cubic), beautiful visual effects, clean glass and emission while in secondary and coaling. He reloads about every 4 hrs. It works if you are retired perhaps.

He must not load it very full. I can go 4-6 on my tiny .8 cuft stove. However, our house is tiny, so it doesn't take much to heat it. If our house were any bigger, we would have gotten a different stove.

 

[jetsam]

I would to but my house would be cold if I was running 24 hrs.

I have saved no wood after switching

Which is your heating envelope forcing you to run the stove very high, where there isn't an efficiency difference.

It's not the wrench's fault that you're using it for a hammer.

 

[bholler]

Which is your heating envelope forcing you to run the stove very high, where there isn't an efficiency difference.

It's not the wrench's fault that you're using it for a hammer.

Yes but the regency of the same size did it with 8 hour burns. And my house is far from abnomally leaky or poorly insulated. It is an average 1100 sqft 1970 ranch with a finished basement

 

[SpaceBus]

I was thinking about ROI of a cat stove while washing dishes. What's the average cat stove run, $2,000+? It seems you can get a great tube stove for under $1500. In ten years you've spent at least $3000 on a stove and cats.

I feel like cat stoves are really for people that have to have "the best" stuff. Like guys driving convertible GT500 Mustangs. A good driver in a Miata would crush it on a track, but the Miata doesn't have the WOW factor of the Mustang. Yeah, 14+ hr burn times are great, but my house would still be cold. Just like the 640 HP of the GT500 is impressive, for the two seconds you can go full throttle without killing someone.

I considered a cat stove, but what happens if I break a cat during a blizzard and the power is out? Sure, you could run it, but at what cost? Also, I don't hate Mustangs, or muscle cars, I used to have a Mach 1. Just using it as an illustration.

 

[bholler]

I was thinking about ROI of a cat stove while washing dishes. What's the average cat stove run, $2,000+? It seems you can get a great tube stove for under $1500. In ten years you've spent at least $3000 on a stove and cats.

I feel like cat stoves are really for people that have to have "the best" stuff. Like guys driving convertible GT500 Mustangs. A good driver in a Miata would crush it on a track, but the Miata doesn't have the WOW factor of the Mustang. Yeah, 14+ hr burn times are great, but my house would still be cold. Just like the 640 HP of the GT500 is impressive, for the two seconds you can go full throttle without killing someone.

I considered a cat stove, but what happens if I break a cat during a blizzard and the power is out? Sure, you could run it, but at what cost? Also, I don't hate Mustangs, or muscle cars, I used to have a Mach 1. Just using it as an illustration.

I don't disagree with you completely. But cat stoves can be a great fit for plenty of houses. And a cat isn't just going to break out of the blue.

 

[Highbeam]

I think @Woody Stover gets more than 12 hour burns from his sub 1.5 cubic foot Woodstock cat stove.

 

[weatherguy]

You should always have a spare cat on hand anyway.

 

[Highbeam]

I was thinking about ROI of a cat stove while washing dishes. What's the average cat stove run, $2,000+? It seems you can get a great tube stove for under $1500. In ten years you've spent at least $3000 on a stove and cats.

I feel like cat stoves are really for people that have to have "the best" stuff. Like guys driving convertible GT500 Mustangs. A good driver in a Miata would crush it on a track, but the Miata doesn't have the WOW factor of the Mustang. Yeah, 14+ hr burn times are great, but my house would still be cold. Just like the 640 HP of the GT500 is impressive, for the two seconds you can go full throttle without killing someone.

I considered a cat stove, but what happens if I break a cat during a blizzard and the power is out? Sure, you could run it, but at what cost? Also, I don't hate Mustangs, or muscle cars, I used to have a Mach 1. Just using it as an illustration.

If you’re one of those worst case scenario people then you just keep an extra cat on hand and pop it in if your current cat is destroyed by aliens. You don’t even need any tools most of the time. It does help if you let the stove cool a bit!

 

[bholler]

I think @Woody Stover gets more than 12 hour burns from his sub 1.5 cubic foot Woodstock cat stove.

Yes but the btu output of that small amount of wood over that time would be absolutely tiny.

 

[Highbeam]

You should always have a spare cat on hand anyway.

I’ve been thinking about getting a spare cat after hearing about Woodstock’s supply problems.

This is a real drawback. What if you can’t get a new cat?

 

[Highbeam]

Yes but the btu output of that small amount of wood over that time would be absolutely tiny.

It would be small for sure but if it’s enough then it’s a great tool for the job.

 

[bholler]

It would be small for sure but if it’s enough then it’s a great tool for the job.

Yes you are absolutely correct.