I didn't know this: Cat vs non-Cat

[jetsam]

Because that's not going to stop India and China who are the major polluters of this atmosphere to change their ways. So why should the American people pay the price for something they can't fix.

This is pretty off topic for this forum.

I don't want to always be the absolute worst human being in the neighborhood so that I can be sure that nobody else is getting away with being worse than me, though.

 

[bholler]

Because that's not going to stop India and China who are the major polluters of this atmosphere to change their ways. So why should the American people pay the price for something they can't fix.

But our air quality and water quality has improved greatly since the 70s. Would you prefer we go back to the way things were?

Reducing pollution is beneficial even if it doesn't reduce all forms.

 

[Seasoned Oak]

They down drafted a little bit but nothing like the modern ones that cause so much trouble.

What kind of trouble? My Harman has been one of the best wood stoves iv ever owned. Iv yet to ever have any kind of trouble with it. Im comparing it to 4 different models from 3 different Mfgs that i currently own. Currently having a lot of trouble with the englander model SHSS 50.

 

[Seasoned Oak]

But our air quality and water quality has improved greatly since the 70s. Would you prefer we go back to the way things were?

Reducing pollution is beneficial even if it doesn't reduce all forms.

Yea, these are the good old days in some ways.

 

[bholler]

What kind of trouble? My Harman has been one of the best wood stoves iv ever owned. Iv yet to ever have any kind of trouble with it. Im comparing it to 4 different models from 3 different Mfgs that i currently own. Currently having a lot of trouble with the englander model SHSS 50.

I see lots of them and other stoves burnt by lots of different people in lots of different homes. And what I see from most of the downdraft stoves is dirty chimneys and broken parts needing replacement. Yes there are some like you who love them. But most people can't get them to work right. To the point that 2 of the 3 dealers servicing our area quit carrying harmans.

 

[begreen]

he cats just pop out like a cassette tape and are cheap.

$2-300 every few years for many people is not cheap. Lack of maintenance is one of the primary reasons for poor performance of older stoves.

 

[MtnBURN]

$2-300 every few years for many people is not cheap. Lack of maintenance is one of the primary reasons for poor performance of older stoves.

That Wyoming story was a doozy. Spend 3K on a stove and then burn it like a $500 home Depot stove. Well...as always...ya can't fix stupid.

Compared to my cat stove....my neighbor with an EPA tube stove easily spends that $2-300 per year on wood to keep his house warm over what I use....not to mention he has a natural gas heater that runs 1/2 the night because his non-cat won't burn overnight. Gas is cheap though. Certainly not as much as one of them "cats" in a 3 year span. Pffft.

 

[AlbergSteve]

Because that's not going to stop India and China who are the major polluters of this atmosphere to change their ways. So why should the American people pay the price for something they can't fix.

'cause I've got to drive my chipped diesel dually to pick up milk and smokes...

 

[bholler]

That Wyoming story was a doozy. Spend 3K on a stove and then burn it like a $500 home Depot stove. Well...as always...ya can't fix stupid.

Compared to my cat stove....my neighbor with an EPA tube stove easily spends that $2-300 per year on wood to keep his house warm over what I use....not to mention he has a natural gas heater that runs 1/2 the night because his non-cat won't burn overnight. Gas is cheap though. Certainly not as much as one of them "cats" in a 3 year span. Pffft.

Many noncats easily burn overnight that is absurd. And I have seen zero woodsavings after switching from a regency tube stove to a bk. The fact is I work on stoves every day. And many people do not replace their cats either because they don't want to spend the money or they cant

 

[Highbeam]

$2-300 every few years for many people is not cheap. Lack of maintenance is one of the primary reasons for poor performance of older stoves.

Penny wise and pound foolish.

186$ every 3 years which is easily recovered three times over in cost savings by burning so much less wood. 3 years is about the minimum and only for a full time burner. 10,000 hours can take some people 10 years!

 

[bholler]

Penny wise and pound foolish.

186$ every 3 years which is easily recovered three times over in cost savings by burning so much less wood. 3 years is about the minimum and only for a full time burner. 10,000 hours can take some people 10 years!

I have yet to see this woodsavings you keep talking about. Many people are burning wood because they can cut it for next to nothing and they can't afford to heat any other way.

 

[jetsam]

Many noncats easily burn overnight that is absurd. And I have seen zero woodsavings after switching from a regency tube stove to a bk.

Yeah, but you are running it much harder than the sweet spot. If you have to burn it so high that you are only getting 8 hour burns, you really might as well have a tube stove, because the efficiency is going to be similar at such a high burn rate.

The people who swoon over their BKs are the ones who love the turn-down- 24 hour burns in shoulder season and whatever you want in the winter. If your BTU requirements mean you don't use the low range, you will not really see the good part.

(I would brag that I am still tootling around in the lower 25% of the thermostat's range in January, but that's due to freaky weather this year, not stove power... 47°F again tomorrow.)

 

[rdust]

$2-300 every few years for many people is not cheap. Lack of maintenance is one of the primary reasons for poor performance of older stoves.

I disagree, I think it’s cheap for the majority of people.(especially the ones that frequent here) Do the math over three years, at 200(my princess is less than that) it’s not even 6 bucks a month.

It might be too much for someone who is burning wood to survive but that person isn’t spending 3K+ on a stove or hanging out here.

 

[bholler]

Yeah, but you are running it much harder than the sweet spot. If you have to burn it so high that you are only getting 8 hour burns, you really might as well have a tube stove, because the efficiency is going to be similar at such a high burn rate.

The people who swoon over their BKs are the ones who love the turn-down- 24 hour burns in shoulder season and whatever you want in the winter. If your BTU requirements mean you don't use the low range, you will not really see the good part.

(I would brag that I am still tootling around in the lower 25% of the thermostat's range in January, but that's due to freaky weather this year, not stove power... 47°F again tomorrow.)

Yes that is what I have said all along. And I was labeled a bk hater for it. They are great stoves but only in the right situation. My house will get there but it takes time to redo it all.

 

[jatoxico]

Cheap or not the majority of people don't maintain anything, Fix when broken or toss it in the trash.

 

[Rearscreen]

I've always believed that cats are smarter than non-cats.

 

[jetsam]

I disagree, I think it’s cheap for the majority of people.(especially the ones that frequent here) Do the math over three years, at 200(my princess is less than that) it’s not even 6 bucks a month.

It might be too much for someone who is burning wood to survive but that person isn’t spending 3K+ on a stove or hanging out here.

When you are taking an $500+/month heating oil bill to $0, spending a few hundred on new tubes/cats/gaskets/bricks/fans/whatever every couple years feels like a much smaller burden. Add in the fact that you are probably keeping the house much warmer for free, and it feels like an even better deal.

You could do the same thing with a pre-EPA stove if you wanted to.

I don't- my back hurts enough. I don't need to go back to using more wood for less heat.

I guess I will say that I miss pitching junk mail and basically anything flammable in there, and seasoning wood for years is a big pain in the ass which we didn't used to bother with very much. And the wall of heat from a roaring smoke dragon can be impressive to behold, for a few hours.

I guess if I did have to go back to a smoke dragon for some reason, I have learned so much from hearth that I would feed it dry wood, and mod it for secondary burning, so it would probably be better than what I remember.

 

[jetsam]

I've always believed that cats are smarter than non-cats.

I tell my cat that he's dumb, and then I trudge off to work while he lies there and watches me go.

I can't actually hear him snickering, but likely he is. :|

 

[MtnBURN]

Many noncats easily burn overnight that is absurd. And I have seen zero woodsavings after switching from a regency tube stove to a bk. The fact is I work on stoves every day. And many people do not replace their cats either because they don't want to spend the money or they cant

I'm sure many non-cats will burn overnight. However... I didn't reference "many". I spoke to this one situation. This one stove I am familiar with that my neighbor owns that is a brand new tube stove. I don't paint like that (big brush). I speak to what I see/experience. Then you try to put extra words in there to make your point. So excuse me if that story doesn't jive with your expertise. Are you burning @ 7500 ft msl to know how things burn HERE?

I'm glad you work on stoves daily to know-it-all about em and tell us where we went wrong buying our stoves that we are perfectly happy with.

Hell...the fact is that I'm damn glad you have to go to work everyday cus that right there makes me go Bwahahaha.

Color me impressed. Keep up the good work.

 

[bholler]

I'm sure many non-cats will burn overnight. However... I didn't reference "many". I spoke to this one situation. This one stove I am familiar with that my neighbor owns that is a brand new tube stove. I don't paint like that (big brush). I speak to what I see/experience. Then you try to put extra words in there to make your point. So excuse me if that story doesn't jive with your expertise. Are you burning @ 7500 ft msl to know how things burn HERE?

I'm glad you work on stoves daily to know-it-all about em and tell us where we went wrong buying our stoves that we are perfectly happy with.

Hell...the fact is that I'm damn glad you have to go to work everyday cus that right there makes me go Bwahahaha.

Color me impressed. Keep up the good work.

I never said you or anyone else who has a stove that works well for them went wrong. I just try to make sure people have the proper info to help themselves get a stove that works for them. And many of the cat guys here throw out all kinds of innacurate info about noncats.

And I am not sure what the crack about me going to work is about but I am proud to work and provide a much needed service for people so they can safely heat their houses.

 

[NRGwave]

I bet this is probably true on average. With my progress there is a dramatic difference if the combuster is plugged all the way. But what if it’s 10% plugged? 20% plugged? Would I even notice? Maybe. Would the average user?

I do know I cleaned the cat in a vinegar bath last week and seen a big difference in performance. I probably should have cleaned it sooner.

My neighbor has two Blaze Kings that have burnt the combusters out of them. He won’t replace them. That costs money

"That costs money" ….lol

They operate less efficiently but do they still burn good or do they never engage the bypass?

 

[Highbeam]

I have yet to see this woodsavings you keep talking about. Many people are burning wood because they can cut it for next to nothing and they can't afford to heat any other way.

In the case of survival heating you can get by with an nc30 and burn free wood. Not a bad way to go. I suppose a barrel stove isn’t out of the question when the most important thing is low cost.

 

[Ludlow]

Cheap or not the majority of people don't maintain anything, Fix when broken or toss it in the trash.

I had a weedeater that I did absolutely nothing to except abuse it. Never measured oil ratio, just poured it in by eye. Never cleaned air filter, left gas in over winter and just fired it up the next summer. It lasted 25 years. When it finally quit I gave it to my brother and bought a new one on sale with a coupon for $50. I treat the new one just the same as the old one. Dont want to risk it.

Bought a used lawnmower for $65 over 12 years ago. Never changed the oil although I will add oil occasionally. Never winterized it. Throw it in the shed and the next summer fire it right up. I did have to replace the plug once. Took a long time to recover from that...

 

[Mojappa]

Enlighten me please, why is my Harmon a downdraft? These Harmons(TL300) are not user repairable friendly which is why I'm considering new nextnseason. I personally don't care about the EPA until they can stop China and volcanos from spewing.
.

That’s the spirit. Luckily for us if you’re buying new then you’ll be getting something that burns cleaner than the stoves our ignorant ancestors used.

 

[jatoxico]

I had a weedeater that I did absolutely nothing to except abuse it. Never measured oil ratio, just poured it in by eye. Never cleaned air filter, left gas in over winter and just fired it up the next summer. It lasted 25 years. When it finally quit I gave it to my brother and bought a new one on sale with a coupon for $50. I treat the new one just the same as the old one. Dont want to risk it.

Bought a used lawnmower for $65 over 12 years ago. Never changed the oil although I will add oil occasionally. Never winterized it. Throw it in the shed and the next summer fire it right up. I did have to replace the plug once. Took a long time to recover from that...

Remind me not to buy any used cars from PA .