Urgent - Winter Solo Heat Source Switch

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Offgridnow

New Member
Nov 30, 2024
6
Wauconda, WA
Hello, hello from the Okanogan Highlights! Up near Canada, where winter is well underway - and I'm unexpectedly in need of a new wood stove, which is my singular source of heat. Seeking recommendations!

Context:
I heat my ~700 sq ft log cabin with loft (roof only insulated) exclusively with a wood stove (only option).
It's not uncommon for temps to hit minus 38 degrees Fahrenheit in the winter.

Situation:
End of summer, I bought a non-catalytic Jotul F500 V3 Oslo from a local retailer who told me they had one in their warehouse from before Jotul switched this stove to cat only. I was aiming for solid heat output and efficiency, which their rep was confident in with this model.

Had the Oslo professionally installed this fall (rear venting) - along with a brand new insulated pipe through an old stone chimney.

Had all kinds of problems getting the Oslo to temp - almost impossible to get to 300 degrees - let alone to heat my small place, even before temps dropped below freezing.

In troubleshooting, I discovered they sold me a non-cat Oslo but installed the cat version. Setting aside the consumer protection issues, their Jotul rep indicated the stove was defective and recommended replacing it with a non-cat Jotul F 45 V2 Greenville. Swapped stoves out this Thanksgiving week.

After break-in burns, found the Greenville can at least get to 450 degrees (though struggles to get to 500) but emits exhaust from the top of the stove plate and right rear vent. It's particularly bad if there's wood on the right side of the fire box and/or if I damper it down.

To contextualize severity, emissions fill my loft to the point it can't be occupied. The only option I've found so far is to open doors and windows and get as hot of a fire as possible on the left side of the fireplace. Clearly not the solution promised - or remotely sustainable. 48 hours into this ordeal, no response from the retailer.

Seeking recommendations: For a suitable non-cat replacement. Efficiency, heat output, and overnight burn capacity have been my top priorities - will flex as required. Prefer full cast iron, radiant heat, but open to steel with cast iron casing if it will get the job done.

The Morso 7110 is currently at the top of my list. While I'd sacrifice overnight burns, it seems that it would at least heat well and allow for regulation. Admittedly influenced by the stellar performance of the Morso 2B Standard 2020, which a family member installed in an off-grid insulated cabin earlier this year.

Thank you, thank you in advance for suitable recommendations. (Oh, how I wish I could pick up an old school Fisher!)
 
The Morso is too small, you will be filling it every few hours in cold weather.

Something is wrong here. It may not be the stove. So far it sounds like a draft issue or the wood. Describe the flue system in detail from stove to chimney cap including diameter, elbows, height, etc. That will help us recommend a targeted solution. Also, when was the flue system fully cleaned, including the cap?

How long was the wood seasoned after being split?
 
I agree, sounds like a draft problem, wet wood or both. I’m heating just about the same size log cabin with the Jotul F45 V2 and it performs beautifully.
 
Thanks for your reply! I've tried three different sources of seasoned wood - tamarack and fir - then also one year and two year seasoned - all well regarded as the best available wood in the area (and what I've used before these stoves w/o issue). I've also tried seasoned pine and there's not much difference, which there should be.

Discussed with Jotul rep and she was confident we should be getting overnight burns (with both Jotul models) on our tamarack and fir wood.

Chimney swept this summer before new, insulated 6" rear vent stove pipe - to approx 18' vertical insulated pipe - professionally installed, per professional onsite visit and recommendation. Brand new cap. Notably, rear vent on Oslo was NOT installed at 90 degrees and dropped down on exiting the stove, but this was corrected at time of Greenville install.

Also notably, my old stove (make/model unknown) was not a great heat producer but it did burn overnight and never had any odor/emissions into the cabin. Likewise, no odor/emissions into the cabin with the Oslo. We've painstakingly troubleshooted and clearly identified emissions from the top and back right vent of the Greenville. That seems to be a defect with the stove - even if there are other issues to solve for. Right?

At this stage, we've lost confidence in Jotul - especially given the reality of life/death winter temps without a reliable stove. Seeking viable replacement makes/models. Of course, if there's a possible issue with new piping would love to know that too! Otherwise, we'll be in the same situation again. All thoughts/insights much appreciated!
 
If the wood is not an issue then it's likely a draft situation. Please describe the flue system in detail. Pictures are welcome.
 
I agree, sounds like a draft problem, wet wood or both. I’m heating just about the same size log cabin with the Jotul F45 V2 and it performs beautifully.
Fascinating. Wood is super dry - have even tried 3 year seasoned wood that's so dry it risks burning too quickly - but it doesn't solve for baseline temp challenges (both stoves) or exhaust challenge (Greenville). What's the nature/length of your flue piping @Todd, if you don't mind me asking?
 
Is this a one story or two story home? Does the flue go straight up and out the roof or out the side and then up outdoors? Is there an outside air feed on the stove?
 
Is this a one story or two story home? Does the flue go straight up and out the roof or out the side and then up outdoors? Is there an outside air feed on the stove?
One story with vaulted ceiling and loft. Flue goes straight up, but per chimney sweep and per installer, there is a slight bend midway up the chimney, which then goes straight up to the outdoors. Both said the bend was minor and shouldn't be a problem. I'm not sure to which direction is the slight bend. I may be able to make an educated guess in the morning when I look at the masonry outside. No outside air feed. Given this is an older log cabin that is not airtight, I don't believe we should need one. Please correct me if I'm mistaken on this. Many thanks for the points of consideration and support in troubleshooting!
 
So far it sounds ok. It wouldn't hurt to open a close by window 1/2" and see if that livens up the fire.

If the chimney is under about 18' in total height, the stove may be shy on draft. Normally, around 16 ft would suffice, but I am adding a couple of feet for altitude adjustment.

I've never been to this area but am hoping to visit next spring or summer for some camping. When is the best time and are there any spots that shouldn't be missed?
 
Hello, hello from the Okanogan Highlights! Up near Canada, where winter is well underway - and I'm unexpectedly in need of a new wood stove, which is my singular source of heat. Seeking recommendations!

Context:
I heat my ~700 sq ft log cabin with loft (roof only insulated) exclusively with a wood stove (only option).
It's not uncommon for temps to hit minus 38 degrees Fahrenheit in the winter.

Situation:
End of summer, I bought a non-catalytic Jotul F500 V3 Oslo from a local retailer who told me they had one in their warehouse from before Jotul switched this stove to cat only. I was aiming for solid heat output and efficiency, which their rep was confident in with this model.

Had the Oslo professionally installed this fall (rear venting) - along with a brand new insulated pipe through an old stone chimney.

Had all kinds of problems getting the Oslo to temp - almost impossible to get to 300 degrees - let alone to heat my small place, even before temps dropped below freezing.

In troubleshooting, I discovered they sold me a non-cat Oslo but installed the cat version. Setting aside the consumer protection issues, their Jotul rep indicated the stove was defective and recommended replacing it with a non-cat Jotul F 45 V2 Greenville. Swapped stoves out this Thanksgiving week.

After break-in burns, found the Greenville can at least get to 450 degrees (though struggles to get to 500) but emits exhaust from the top of the stove plate and right rear vent. It's particularly bad if there's wood on the right side of the fire box and/or if I damper it down.

To contextualize severity, emissions fill my loft to the point it can't be occupied. The only option I've found so far is to open doors and windows and get as hot of a fire as possible on the left side of the fireplace. Clearly not the solution promised - or remotely sustainable. 48 hours into this ordeal, no response from the retailer.

Seeking recommendations: For a suitable non-cat replacement. Efficiency, heat output, and overnight burn capacity have been my top priorities - will flex as required. Prefer full cast iron, radiant heat, but open to steel with cast iron casing if it will get the job done.

The Morso 7110 is currently at the top of my list. While I'd sacrifice overnight burns, it seems that it would at least heat well and allow for regulation. Admittedly influenced by the stellar performance of the Morso 2B Standard 2020, which a family member installed in an off-grid insulated cabin earlier this year.

Thank you, thank you in advance for suitable recommendations. (Oh, how I wish I could pick up an old school Fisher!)
If your stove is emitting gasses from the top Plate and the right side of the vent, is that not a gasket/sealing issue? I checked this manual and the top plate appears to be secured with two tabs. The minimum chimney height is 14' (doesn't guarantee proper draft) but must be 2' higher than any portion within 10 feet. The manual also recommends taking the draft measurement in wc to be exact.
 

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Fascinating. Wood is super dry - have even tried 3 year seasoned wood that's so dry it risks burning too quickly - but it doesn't solve for baseline temp challenges (both stoves) or exhaust challenge (Greenville). What's the nature/length of your flue piping @Todd, if you don't mind me asking?
I have 22’ straight up, double wall stove pipe to ceiling transitioning to class A chimney pipe. All Excel.

You mentioned new chimney cap, does it have the spark arrestor screen? That could easily plug up and cause this issue.
 
Also what elevation are you at? The higher your elevation the taller your chimney needs to be.
 
are you running the stove wide open? All the heat may be going up your flue. Choke it down. It sounds counter intuitive, but it’ll keep the heat in the stove and allow the secondaries to do their job.

Could the smoke you’re seeing inside be oils burning off and the paint curing on a new stove?
 
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This still sounds like the classic case of wet wood after changing from a pre-EPA stove. You say "seasoned", but what does that mean to you? Wood needs to be split and stacked away from rain, for at least a year to burn satisfactorily in a modern stove. Stacked in rounds is not seasoning, and anything you buy commercially is extremely unlikely to be seasoned either. Perhaps your wood is borderline, and maybe other factors like draft are also contributing. Have you taken a moisture meter to a freshly split face at room temperature? Spend $20 and know.

TE
 
Many thanks to everyone for the input! Sparing photos and additional details at this stage as technicians came out today and found two faulty seals - one at the top plate and the other under the stove top itself. According to the technicians, the misaligned gaskets reasonably explained the exhaust into the cabin. They took photos to share back with Jotul since this is a brand new stove and the issues occurred at manufacturing. They replaced one gasket and manually realigned the other. So far so good. Still putting the stove through it's paces so not celebrating quite yet, but cautiously optimistic.