Building a 1000 sqft house elevation about 5,800' long winters with temps below -30 F (-34 C) what stove would you use?
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Ya, those are big windows. An engineer might say, that is too much window. How are we going to hold the heat? And that stove should be centrally located - like by the bathroom/laundry room in your plans. Where you have the stove is going to be where the roof is low so you may have drafting problems. I'm in Idaho so your wind is probably the same as mine - from the Northwest. I'm guessing that you wouldn't want your chimney on the low dead air part of the roof - the southeast corner.
And you want this as your primary heater, and you expect it to heat a long distance like to the studio? Wood burners work best centrally located. As is, you should definitely oversize your wood stove choice. I was surprised how cold it gets in Wyoming - they don't even try to clear the roads of ice. They just spread sand and gravel over the ice and call it good. Also, I wondered why there are so few insects in Wyoming - it gets so cold with a layer of ice on the ground that insect's dormant stages can't survive the winter.
And you want this as your primary heater, and you expect it to heat a long distance like to the studio? Wood burners work best centrally located. As is, you should definitely oversize your wood stove choice. I was surprised how cold it gets in Wyoming - they don't even try to clear the roads of ice. They just spread sand and gravel over the ice and call it good. Also, I wondered why there are so few insects in Wyoming - it gets so cold with a layer of ice on the ground that insect's dormant stages can't survive the winter.
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The odds are strong that the hardwood will not be seasoned. If a cold, wet split is tossed on a hot coal bed there is a risk of thermal shock to the catalyst which can damage it. Hardwood usually takes a couple of years to season properly. Poorly seasoned wood is grief in any modern stove. It takes a lot of energy to boil off pounds of water trapped in the wood. This cools the fire leading to harder starts, creosote buildup and anemic heat.
It's pine and fir. So no hardwood.
If it was split and stacked off the ground in March/April, it will likely be fine.
If split 6 weeks ago and laying in a pile, then it won't.
The moisture meter is the way to go so you know, rather than guess, the state of the wood. And if it's too wet (above 20%), no money lost, as stacking it off the ground will make it perfect for next winter. In fact, burning wood that's what you should do. If it's always pine and fir, get a full winter's worth in March/April, and stack it immediately off the ground (assuming you're in a pretty dry climate, leave it uncovered). That makes it perfectly fine for the next winter.
If it was split and stacked off the ground in March/April, it will likely be fine.
If split 6 weeks ago and laying in a pile, then it won't.
The moisture meter is the way to go so you know, rather than guess, the state of the wood. And if it's too wet (above 20%), no money lost, as stacking it off the ground will make it perfect for next winter. In fact, burning wood that's what you should do. If it's always pine and fir, get a full winter's worth in March/April, and stack it immediately off the ground (assuming you're in a pretty dry climate, leave it uncovered). That makes it perfectly fine for the next winter.
Don't let the lack of good firewood this year force you into the wrong decision for a stove. If you can't source dry firewood then go pick up the North Idaho Energy Logs. You can burn 100% energy logs in a BK until you can get your wood sorted out.
Yes, I don't know why I saw some hardwood in the mix. Northern Idaho Energy Logs and HomeFire Press-Logs are both Northwest products.
In Wyoming there is a good chance some of the wood will be dry enough to burn. A moisture meter is the best guide. If possible, select some of the thicker splits on the truck to test before the load is dumped. Split it in half and test in the center of the freshly exposed wood. If it's below 20% it'll be good. Also, if you can bring the wood indoors into a heated space, it can lose a significant amount of moisture in 2-3 weeks.
In Wyoming there is a good chance some of the wood will be dry enough to burn. A moisture meter is the best guide. If possible, select some of the thicker splits on the truck to test before the load is dumped. Split it in half and test in the center of the freshly exposed wood. If it's below 20% it'll be good. Also, if you can bring the wood indoors into a heated space, it can lose a significant amount of moisture in 2-3 weeks.
@begreen , @Highbeam , @stoveliker , @qwee , @EbS-P , @ispinwool , @kborndale , @Wisco Shepherd and any i missed.
Thanks to everyone for the guidance. After reading here and in other threads our plan is to either get a moisture meter or buy Energy / Press logs. We will also cover our windows in extreme cold, move the stove location to something more central, and look into better insulation overall. For a stove we are leaning towards either forking out for a new BK Ashford 20.2 or compromising with something like a Drolet Escape 1200. Thanks again and if you have additional thoughts please share.
Thanks to everyone for the guidance. After reading here and in other threads our plan is to either get a moisture meter or buy Energy / Press logs. We will also cover our windows in extreme cold, move the stove location to something more central, and look into better insulation overall. For a stove we are leaning towards either forking out for a new BK Ashford 20.2 or compromising with something like a Drolet Escape 1200. Thanks again and if you have additional thoughts please share.
For a low cost stove, look at the Drolet Deco Nano. It loads N/S.
www.drolet.ca
High Efficiency Wood Stove | Deco Nano
The Deco Nano wood stove is EPA certified at 1.8 g/h - 45,000 BTU/h to heat up to 1200 ft² - Logs of 17" - On pedestal - Made in Canada. Can.
www.drolet.ca
Thank you! That's a nice looking stove. What does that mean, "It loads N/S"? I get north/south, but I don't understand the distinction.For a low cost stove, look at the Drolet Deco Nano. It loads N/S.
High Efficiency Wood Stove | Deco Nano
The Deco Nano wood stove is EPA certified at 1.8 g/h - 45,000 BTU/h to heat up to 1200 ft² - Logs of 17" - On pedestal - Made in Canada. Can.
Found this online: "When a stove is described as "loading north and south," it means that the logs are placed into the firebox along a north-south axis, essentially meaning you would open the door and put the wood in from one end of the stove to the other, allowing for a larger load of wood to be stacked within the firebox, typically considered ideal for long-burning fires in cold weather."
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That's correct. The issue with an E/W loading stove is that one must be careful in loading so that the top logs don't slip and roll up against the glass. This can even happen with careful loading if the supporting logs underneath crumble as they burn. The net result is that one does not get to use the full capacity of the firebox. This is not an issue with N/S loaders. Also, stoves with shallow fireboxes have a tendency to let some smoke roll out into the room on reloads when the draft isn't strong.
Having run and owned both types, my bias is strongly toward a deeper N/S loading firebox. That said, in some cases there is the option to cut the firewood shorter to accomodate a shallower firebox so that it can be loaded N/S.
Having run and owned both types, my bias is strongly toward a deeper N/S loading firebox. That said, in some cases there is the option to cut the firewood shorter to accomodate a shallower firebox so that it can be loaded N/S.
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And there are some wide E/W stoves that have side loading doors so you load it straight in but you don't have to chuck it in there and hope it doesn't roll back out!
Skip the BK 20 stove and opt for the 30 box. There is no good reason to select the 20 box, it has the same low burn rate output as the 30 but the 30 has a higher high output level and a larger firebox for a 50% longer burn time at any burn rate.
Skip the BK 20 stove and opt for the 30 box. There is no good reason to select the 20 box, it has the same low burn rate output as the 30 but the 30 has a higher high output level and a larger firebox for a 50% longer burn time at any burn rate.
You can get dry wood in your area this year. Sellers will have harvested dead standing trees - so this firewood should be ready to burn. Or there is still a little time left to get a permit and go get it yourself in the forest - if you have a chainsaw and other gear. If it is like Idaho there will be plenty of dead standing trees. And Wyoming has a lot of Pine trees.
True. I've got a cord of split pine from dead standing wood coming nexxt week that is 8-10%. I'm also going to pick up a pallet of the north idaho energy logs.
Not to confuse things, but be aware that wood can be too dry too. 8-10% internal moisture is very dry. For comparison, our shed dried wood settles in at about 17% typically.* Too dry wood can overwhelm the combustion system, secondary or catalytic, if the wood offgasses too quickly. With this in mind, start out with smaller loads and save thin splits for starting fires only.
Also, be aware the NIELs pack a lot of BTUs in a small package. Try smaller fires first. You can break one into thirds and put the pieces on top of two NIELs set side by side, about an inch or so apart.
* A local seller was touting his firewood this summer at 10% or less. He even showed a picture of the moisture meter. Funny thing though, it was poked into the end grain of the split. He had never tested the wood's internal moisture by resplitting it first.
Also, be aware the NIELs pack a lot of BTUs in a small package. Try smaller fires first. You can break one into thirds and put the pieces on top of two NIELs set side by side, about an inch or so apart.
* A local seller was touting his firewood this summer at 10% or less. He even showed a picture of the moisture meter. Funny thing though, it was poked into the end grain of the split. He had never tested the wood's internal moisture by resplitting it first.
I think that for a BK, with a regulated max BTU release rate, the high BTU content of the sawdust logs just means it'll burn longer before a reload is needed.
It's possible to overwhelm the cat with too large a load of them. IIRC Highbeam did this with his first try of NIELs in his Princess. The net result was a fairly short burn in spite of the large load.
I just came across this in the BK 30.2 manual:
Dimensional timber off cuts, very low moisture content small diameter wood, and pressed wood logs, when used in excess, may result in excessive internal firebox temperatures that can cause irreversible damage to the firebox’s internal structure. Excessive temperatures can be caused by many small pieces of very low moisture content wood being used as a primary fuel source. This may be evident by warping or warped internal plates and retainers, possible cracking of the outer firebox and possibly premature failure of the catalytic combustor.
Dimensional timber off cuts, very low moisture content small diameter wood, and pressed wood logs, when used in excess, may result in excessive internal firebox temperatures that can cause irreversible damage to the firebox’s internal structure. Excessive temperatures can be caused by many small pieces of very low moisture content wood being used as a primary fuel source. This may be evident by warping or warped internal plates and retainers, possible cracking of the outer firebox and possibly premature failure of the catalytic combustor.
What we found was that the clearance to combustibles was bigger on the 20 box so the footprint was the same.
Not really. It’s been a few years but as I recall, the burn time was just as long as with the same weight of dry firewood. What I was hoping for was smoke free stealth burning and the smoke was no different than with firewood.
Due to higher density you could fit more NIels in the firebox for a much longer burn but not a “different” burn.
IIRC bkvp ran a whole winter on only sawdust logs...
Without the issues you mention.
Absolutely. One can burn them all season long. The issue would come from trying to burn too many at once.
Thanks for checking in. I had to dig back to refresh my memory. 10 yrs ago is stretching it these days. You are right, it wasn't the burn time that was the issue with 6 logs, it was that smoke was coming out of the chimney. I took that as overwhelming the cat.
However, then in post #22 after a 9 log load you wrote:
That's what led me to say one can load too many NIELs in a cat stove. Same is true for a non-cat.
I may have been wrong
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/reloading-times.196287/post-2636356
Or at least in this description he did not fully load his King.