Healthcare

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Where have you seen it have I said I’m dismissing guidance. Anyone else here dealing with patients in a daily basis. We just worked a cardiac arrest on a pt that is probable, we took every precaution since test results won’t be back till monday.

sorry for the delay, had to go take care of a 5 y/o not breathing. Our lives go on, many many more pts that are not COVID-19 then those even possible.
The whole issue is that the healthcare system can't handle hundreds of thousands of covid 19 patients on top of the normal load of patients. A lot more people will die as a result. If there were no other healthcare issues facing the nation it wouldn't be as much of an issue, but that's just not the case.
 
The whole issue is that the healthcare system can't handle hundreds of thousands of covid 19 patients on top of the normal load of patients. A lot more people will die as a result. If there were no other healthcare issues facing the nation it wouldn't be as much of an issue, but that's just not the case.
And that brings up another issue of our healthcare system. I’ve said it for years how much is too much on a normal day let alone now. We constantly spend time and resources on a daily basis on patients that have zero chance. What I’m seeing is a trend back to what it was 15-20 years ago where we faced the hard truths of healthcare that we won’t save everyone and we didn’t try to. A huge burden on our system has been stringing on lives of people on life support or the such that shouldn’t be. You may think I’m cold hearted but, if anyone does to me what we are forced to do for 99% of our elderly and nursing home pts I’ll come back and haunt the ever living chit out of you.

This is a perfect time to re-evaluate this stuff. i had a cardiac arrest pt awhile back that was terminal, stopped treatments, cancer in a nursing home. No dnr so we worked and got pulses. they were on a ventilator for 10 days with terminal cancer and brain dead. Why??? We’ve needed something for a long time for us to evaluate our decisions in healthcare. We are not God and we need to quit trying to trump him.
 
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Where have you seen it have I said I’m dismissing guidance. Anyone else here dealing with patients in a daily basis. We just worked a cardiac arrest on a pt that is probable, we took every precaution since test results won’t be back till monday.

sorry for the delay, had to go take care of a 5 y/o not breathing. Our lives go on, many many more pts that are not COVID-19 then those even possible.
Right here.


There is another name that drives me nuts. Dr. Fauci has spent an entire career on AIDS research and all of a sudden he’s the go to expert?

he’s a classic example of plot IVs mixing into this.
 
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Right here.
Where does it say I’ve dismissed the CDCs guidance? The gloves, masks, N95 mask, gown, etc, that I wear on every call would seriously dispute that. The fact that I sent my kid to live with my sister would seriously dispute that. The fact I just spent then last hour disinfecting my ambulance and quarters would dispute that.

Just because I choose to not care about what a guy says, one that’s appointed to a position that’s controlled by politics, or care what a president has to say about this, or thinks that this will end up being the biggest farce ever perpetuated by the media does not mean I don’t respect this disease.

There are many more we come in contact with that worry me more than this. Some, the majority, of you guys will never understand that. Top that off with multiple combat tours as a medic and I really could care less about how “dangerous” this is being portrayed as. Even if this kills the 200,000 some think it may in this country that’s .0006% of the total population in this country. 606,000 are projected to die from cancer alone this years. 3 times the amount. How many trillions has the government assigned to that. Or is it non contagious so we don’t care? 150,000 annually die from trauma each year. Around 640,000 die from heart disease a year in the US.

Live your life and quit worrying about a damn virus. People like You and the government is forcing our country into a very bad place driven by fear. Especially when you have an equal chance of dying from a traumatic injury, last guy I had just fell a step ladder, and 6x a chance of heart problems or cancer.
 
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Where does it say I’ve dismissed the CDCs guidance? The gloves, masks, N95 mask, gown, etc, that I wear on every call would seriously dispute that. The fact that I sent my kid to live with my sister would seriously dispute that. The fact I just spent then last hour disinfecting my ambulance and quarters would dispute that.

Just because I choose to not care about what a guy says, one that’s appointed to a position that’s controlled by politics, or care what a president has to say about this, or thinks that this will end up being the biggest farce ever perpetuated by the media does not mean I don’t respect this disease.

There are many more we come in contact with that worry me more than this. Some, the majority, of you guys will never understand that. Top that off with multiple combat tours as a medic and I really could care less about how “dangerous” this is being portrayed as. Even if this kills the 200,000 some think it may in this country that’s .0006% of the total population in this country. 606,000 are projected to die from cancer alone this years. 3 times the amount. How many trillions has the government assigned to that. Or is it non contagious so we don’t care? 150,000 annually die from trauma each year. Around 640,000 die from heart disease a year in the US.

Live your life and quit worrying about a damn virus. People like You and the government is forcing our country into a very bad place driven by fear. Especially when you have an equal chance of dying from a traumatic injury, last guy I had just fell a step ladder, and 6x a chance of heart problems or cancer.
Ok so you follow the guidelines but what you are saying here largely disimisses them. I am not living in fear at all but I am being cautious. I am still going to the store I am still doing emergency calls. But I take precautions to minimize my risk and the risk of people I come in contact with.
 
Ok so you follow the guidelines but what you are saying here largely disimisses them. I am not living in fear at all but I am being cautious. I am still going to the store I am still doing emergency calls. But I take precautions to minimize my risk and the risk of people I come in contact with.
No I’m saying this is being blown way out of proportion. Everyone is focusing on how many wil possible die and its drop in the bucket to what goes on everyday in this country.

Maybe I just accepted the fact that I’ll die and made peace with that a long time ago.
 
Ease up guys, he doesn't want to hear from civilians.
 
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Well that's great you take it serious for your kids. Surprised that you are, considering most of the comments you are saying about the virus in general.
You mean like it should be respected. I’ve said that many times. I’m saying quit focusing on the deaths from it. It’s like comparing apples to oranges with how many people die from other things. I’m also saying that the population density of an area plays a huge role into how. It will be. I’m looking at the big picture from it and also know 1 in 4 will never even know they had it and if your not elderly or high risk you really don’t have much to worry about.
 
Ease up guys, he doesn't want to hear from civilians.
It’s not that at all. See above, I’m tired of hearing about how many people will die. I just ran another cardiac arrest that was not covid-19 but a probable PE. So this week it’s been natural causes or Trauma 5 - covid-19 .5(waiting on a test result but not likely). The number of people that die daily from other reasons is ten fold what covid-19 is and all people focus on is that.
 
Again I don't get that thinking....'"respect a virus " I am assuming your saying that for the risk of death. Then your saying "don't focus on death"
"1 in 4 won't know they have it" as in it's no big deal for the other 3.
"If your not elderly or high risk it's not much to worry about" Well, there is a huge portion of the world that is elderly and high risk.
I don't think there are many people saying the world is over, but you/we all should respect that the world is very different currently. Millions of people are out of work, millions of people are worried how they may pay their bills, millions of people have seen their life savings be reduced significantly, AND ALL OF US HAVE AN ELDERLY OR HIGH RISK PERSON in our lives.
Personally I am like you, I feel that my own self is HOPEFULLY not at risk, but I have many loved ones that are. I hope people actually aren't like me as I have had 3 family members have a fight with this stuff already. An aunt (70) who more than likely picked it up at the funeral home she works at (recovering well but was damn sick), My dad (74) who is still possibly "looking down the barrel" as he was exposed to confirmed case at his LTC facility on Monday (still unfolding) and my brother (49) who had to take an ambulance ride from work because he passed out at work, me and his family knowing he had what we were all hoping was a "cold" (turns out he simply fainted at work) bit try explaining that to his 12 yr old hysterical son who was asking "is my dad going to die" when my SIL called me over. Let alone living with and supporting my ICU nurse wife, who is relentlessly hearing there's not enough PPE.
All I'm seeing folks on this chat in general saying in general is " holy chit, this stuff is serious" and it's completely warranted for all the reasons stated, not just death. No one on this PLANET is not effected.
So you must realize that you being a medic, and telling us to relax this is less than the flu won't fly. It's WAY BIGGER than the flu.
Currently most are privy to only one line of defence for the death aspect. ISOLATE. and unfortunately many people feel that EVERYONE needs to do it.
The thought and hope that the hospital will take care of us is faded exponentially, staff doesn't even sound protected. Then throw in the politics and confidence takes another chit kicking.
Unfortunately all of this adds up to the fact that it's kinda/really f'd up right now and the word needs to be spread as much as possible..... ISOLATE. because personally I enjoyed my life a heck of a lot better 2 months ago when I didn't/wasn't worrying about all of these "NEW" things. Reading fellas argue about which woodstove is better was alot easier than this non flu like chit.
 
Interesting read from an immunologist. There is more than one way of looking at this. I agree with him. I may be wrong but, the current trends are not doing anything other than making people go insane and tanking our country close to the point of collapse.

 
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Uhhhh, the current trends are terrifying. I get that a lot of people die of preventable death every year, but this is out of control. It's the most contagious virus I've seen in my life. Most of the media coverage saying the virus is not a big deal are also Russian propaganda. If you trace it far enough back to the source it always turns out to be bogus. Same with many of the stories on therapeutics. That's the other terrifying part of this, no real treatments. Currently the best advice is to let the fever run and get in hot water.

At least if I stay home for the next two months I won't die. The army destroyed my immune system somehow, so I have to live in fear of this. Those three out of four patients that don't have symptoms could kill me.
 
Those three out of four patients that don't have symptoms could kill me.

This, this right here is what it's all about for me. Unfortunately there are a lot of selfish people in the world.
 
The lack of testing is a national tragedy. The early decision to not accept WHO test kits and go it on our own has been a costly one.
Interesting read from an immunologist. There is more than one way of looking at this. I agree with him. I may be wrong but, the current trends are not doing anything other than making people go insane and tanking our country close to the point of collapse.

This is not just HHS or CDC guidance, it is World guidance. Those nations (and states) that have delayed or ignored responding appropriately to the threat of this novel virus are paying a high cost. Trivializing, ignoring and calling this threat a hoax has cost many lives. As the disease spreads southward, Brazil is starting to find this out, just like we have.
 
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The lack of testing is a national tragedy. The early decision to not accept WHO test kits and go it on our own has been a costly one.

This is not just HHS or CDC guidance, it is World guidance. Those nations (and states) that have delayed or ignored responding appropriately to the threat of this novel virus are paying a high cost. Trivializing, ignoring and calling this threat a hoax has cost many lives. Brazil is starting to find this out, just like we have.
This is the opinion of an immunologist who has a whole lot more schooling and experience than any of us. That alone gives credence to what his opinion is more so than any of us.
 
This is the opinion of an immunologist who has a whole lot more schooling and experience than any of us. That alone gives credence to what his opinion is more so than any of us.
True. And it is just as easy to find epidemiologists that refute his hypothesis. The immunologist appears to have a very strong religious bent which may have a notable effect on his position. FWIW, I have a close friend that is an immune disease research doctor and he too disagrees.

PS: looks like Dr. Dubravec is an allergist, not a well-known immunologist or policy expert.
 
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This is the opinion of an immunologist who has a whole lot more schooling and experience than any of us. That alone gives credence to what his opinion is more so than any of us.
Yes I have no doubt he knows much more than us. But does he know more than the collective mind of all of those working under Fauci? Or any of the other groups working across the globe who agree with our course of action?
 
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A quick read shows serious flaws in his logic,

The President’s COVID-19 Taskforce estimated that as many as 1/1000 New Yorkers may have the virus. If this were projected to the entire United States (population 328,239,523), then the total number of COVID-19 would be approximately 328,239 and deaths from COVID-19 (1.8% death rate) at 5,909. Even if this ends up being wrong by 1,000 percent, the death rate would still be 59,000, i.e., within range of the estimates for influenza deaths. You can look at it in another way. 98% of people who get COVID-19 fully recover!

Dude- the current case number is already at 327,848 and doubling every few days. Also, it is estimated with the stay at home policy in effect that 95% of the population will not get infected. His numbers fall apart under this assumption. Of the 327,848 cases, there were 9,325 deaths or 2.84% so far and this disease is just warming up in many parts of the country.

Another important point: due to a lack of testing kits (which should be resolved in the next few weeks), the total number of those who have contracted COVID-19 is much higher, as most COVID-19 infections are mild or not even felt by patients. Our ability to learn from Italy (and maybe from China) has allowed us to develop treatment strategies that weren’t even considered just 6 weeks ago. These findings should make our death rate lower than other parts of the world.

I certainly hope so, but the most optimistic estimates for a vaccine are a year or more out. Even intermediate treatments need time-consuming trials. Don't expect any miracles in the next month or two as cases peak. Same thing for the promised tests. They are not there. What we have is too little, too late. Hopefully by fall we will have stockpiled kits and setting up many more testing labs with robots for mass testing.

Italy has more reliable data but we can’t say we are going the way of Italy. Their healthcare system is third world medicine with good pasta, red wine, and gelato.

This is not a scientist talking, this is opinionated BS. Several states in the US will likely see conditions like Italy. The south, in particular, is likely to see high numbers similar to Italy. They are poorly equipped to deal with the pandemic, their under 60 population is generally in poorer health, and it will be the poor most affected.

The herd immunity argument is weak because this is a novel virus. That is, no one is immune as of a couple months ago. We would need at least 60% of the population to be immune for herd immunity to work. Right now everyone is susceptible to this disease. And it's made worse by a lack of an effective vaccine. Even if we develop a new vaccine it's unknown how long it would be effective.

State control and abuse of power? Yes, I agree with this concern. It started happening right away with secrecy imposed at the top level.
 
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This is long, but inciteful look at what it is like to deal with this novel virus. It was shared on Facebook by a father who was infected by his young son, one of the "herd".

Morgan C. Smith

I am not normally one to post on Facebook, but I figured this was a good exception since I have gone through the process of Covid -19 onset of viral pneumonia, the symptoms and into recovery. That makes me a really lucky and unlucky person at the same time.
I thought I’d share since there is little information out there on this development of this illness in the more severe cases. Most stories in the media focus on two true facts: 80% of cases are mild and those that die tend to be older with health problems like degraded lungs, diabetes or other issues. All certainly true. But if you look at the opposite side of that 80%, those remaining 20% with “not mild” cases occur pretty evenly across most all age groups from teenagers to advanced ages. Luckily kids seems much less likely to get anything more than a mild case. So by those odds, with a family of 5 very healthy people all above the age of 15, on average, one of those people will have a “not mild case”. Sheltering at home is the way we can slow the progression, but the progression will continue until there is a vaccine or everyone has been exposed.
I’m not sharing this for sympathy since I’ve already received lots of that, but just to give a heads up on this topic that is front and center is our country and thought people might find it useful.
First, what is a mild case. I know this since basically everyone else in my family had that. We are quite sure we were exposed when we went up to Boulder, CO on March 14 to pick up my son where he is a Freshman at CU. There were a number of confirmed Covid 19 cases on campus when CU closed it down, including at least one person who worked at the main food service area where Kyle ate at regularly. While driving him home to Telluride (Highway 70 across the continental divide in March and about 30 degrees outside) he was asking us to turn on the air-conditioning because it has hot, which made no sense. He slept most the way home but had a small cough that lasted a few days and resolved. He likely had a small fever while in the car and then had a cough that lasted a few days. Basically that the extent of all his symptoms but it was all that was necessary to transmit it to others. Later that week after he was home in Telluride, both Sarah and my daughter also developed low level fevers (either below 100 or barely above 100) with slight headaches. My daughter’s symptoms continued for awhile longer with some light fatigue. In short, that was the total extent of all the symptoms for those lucky 80% who have “mild symptoms”. Although the key to remember about all those people with “Mild” symptoms is that they are infectious likely before they show any symptoms, and during the time they have little to no real symptoms. This is why this spreads so easily and so hard to stop. Since Telluride was an early city to require everyone to stay at home, we did that and luckily likely did not infect others.
So what’s it like for the other 20%? Obviously, not so good. This is my story.
6 Days post exposure: I started with showing signs of tremendous fatigue. I woke up, had breakfast and promptly fell back asleep for three hours, had lunch then fell asleep for three hours and pretty much went to sleep after that for the night. I also developed a similar cough to what Kyle had but I never had a fever.
Days 7-12 post exposure: Really pretty mild symptoms during this whole time, but I kept up pretty full activities. Since I work from home with the rest of my staff in Oakland and Sacramento I was mostly dealing with business issues but still got outside a lot. I probably had some shortness of breath, but it’s hard to tell with living at 9000 feet. I started developing aches on my body that were unusual mostly around the back and arms and my skin started becoming sensitive to the touch by the end of this time, but all really seemed mild. I should add that none of us got tested because we knew it was impossible to do so unless you were in the hospital with severe symptoms so that was not available.
Days 13-14 from exposure: I was trying hard to get our paddock ready for bringing our horses back home to altitude and building a chicken coop and definitely felt like I overdid it and was exhausted beyond reason from the activity I actually did. I started sleeping as a full-time job (pretty much not getting our of bed for anything, and was taking the maximum dose of Tylenol that I could daily to control the painful body aches). This was Thu 3/26 - Sat 3/28. I called the doctor and they had me hold my breath for ten seconds, which I could do without issue, and with my breathing sounding ok, they said I was probably fine to stay at home but I could add Ibuprofen to the Tylenol by alternating between them. So during this time, I was in bed all day and taking the maximum dose of both Tylenol and Ibuprofen to try to control the aches and pains on my back and arms that felt similar to having shingles. At the start of this period I started to develop a mild fever (like 100) that would come and go. I also had a cough.
Day 15 from exposure (late in day Sat 3/28): This is the day/night all hell broke loose. I really could no longer get out of bed and was unable to do any activity. I was telling myself that my body was doing what it needed to do to get better so that it’s all good. The rest was allowing my body to make the antibodies necessary to fight what I assumed was Covid 19 and so I just had to let it do its thing. I called the doctor again that day and still could hold by breath without coughing for like 10+ seconds and did not have chest pain at all, but told them I literally could not get out of bed. I decided to still stay to let my body heal and sleep more. About midnight Sarah woke me up saying that I was rapidly breathing and sounded bad and I should go to the hospital. We took my temperature and it had shot up to 103. Being exhausted, I did not want to and wanted to go back to sleep but she made me because I did not look good. As I tried to get ready, I noticed I had lost coordination and balance and could barely get dressed and just moving was causing difficultly breathing.
So I arrived at the Telluride Medical Center a little after 1 a.m., which is not really a hospital but they have very good imaging equipment available because of all the serious ski injuries and they do have a 24 hour emergency room. The hooked me to the machine and turns out my oxygen saturation level was at 74% (normal at sea level is 99% and about 95% average at this altitude). With this lack of oxygen and fever of 103 I was likely incapable of making my own decisions so thank God Sarah forced by butt out of bed at that time. I was given oxygen and that was able to get my levels back to normal as long as I have a continuous supply. They tested me for the virus but said it could still take a week for the result. They also tested for regular flu and that came back negative. They recommended a CT Scan of the chest to check for pneumonia (since they do have really nice imagining equipment!). My result showed the classic sign of the COVID 19 pneumonia pattern in both lungs, which is patchy spots all over the lungs bilaterally. With this the radiologist could unequivocally state I had Covid 19 virus. The pneumonia was shutting down my oxygen intake, even though I had no chest pain and could still hold my breath for 10 + second without any issue.
This point is a really big deal since a number of ER doctors have commented on how unusual this virus is from normal bacterial pneumonia. With normal pneumonia you get lots of symptoms of pain that precede the spread and typically you can hear it easily with a stethoscope. With Covid 19 you can have massive spread of the pneumonia with little breathing symptoms until it hits like a ton of bricks and might be too late to do anything about it. This is why you see some really healthy people dropping dead from this disease even without any underlying medical conditions.
Another ER doctor friend of mine said on that low level of oxygen people are presenting with at the ER as I did with a 75% level: “Weird thing about this virus is that people show up in ER's with oxygen saturation of 70% or 75%, which would normally make you extremely short of breath, but [people] are not feeling it. Very weird. Sneaky. Normally if you dropped your O2 sat to 85% you would be gasping and freaking out... hypoxia is a very strong drive.. normally.”
So back to my story:
Montrose Hospital: Since I had to go to a “real” hospital, Sarah got me in the car and drove me the hour and a half to Montrose Hospital. Sarah was not allowed outside the car, since she is obviously a potential carrier, so I had to get myself in and be put in an isolation room where I was allowed no visitors. Sarah had to drive home alone wonder if or when she would see me again. The medical staff at Montrose were all wonderful and amazing knowing the risk they are putting themselves at by taking care of people like me. The doctor told me that basically , there is no actual treatment for this viral pneumonia, but we’re following the recommended doses of antibiotics and we’ll know soon if it helps or not. So in short, if it helps, you’ll get better, if it doesn’t, you’re probably screwed. Knowing that an antibiotic should not have any effect on a viral agent, I was not feeling super strong about my chances.
Luckily for me though the antibiotics started working is some fashion very soon and combined with the oxygen which I have now and will continue with until healed, I did not need a ventilator and I was released a couple days later and feeling a good deal better from where I started. The antibiotics will not get rid of the viral pneumonia, but they did work to help my body so that my body can develop the antibodies necessary to kill the virus over time. I will be recovering for a good long period and I have to have a continuous supply of oxygen for the foreseeable future, but I’m out of the zone of worry! Since coming home, I still have symptoms of night sweats (drenched with sweat at night), easily fatigued, and headaches, but no fever.
I guess the key takeaway point of all this is to watch out for this virus. It is sneaky, hard to detect, and hard to tell the difference between a mild case, which can be little or nothing and the unlucky 20%. The reason we have all upended our lives and we are taking all these precautions makes a whole lot more sense when you realize what this thing can do if it’s allowed to infect everyone without limitation at the same time. I was very lucky to be in a small town that has not yet been hit hard so I received all the care I needed when I needed it. Others are not so lucky right now.
The good news, as always is that 80% will have little or no symptoms, also the vast majority of those 20% with serious cases will actually survive, but damn this is not a virus to play around with!!
It does explain why we as a country are going to such lengths to try to "flatten the curve" to allow proper treatment for those who need it. My heart goes to all those in places like NY that are dealing with these issues under the most unimaginable conditions possible, and patients going through this and dying alone due to necessary visitor restrictions. I was very lucky to have great medical care and attention in a place not yet overwhelmed.

I hope this helps some people out there.
 
Here is another skeptic doctor.
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He has now apologized for misleading the public and is trying to get the video removed. (Succeeded on YouTube over copyright claim)
“My early comments about equating with influenza were wrong. They were incorrect. I was part of a chorus that was saying that and we were wrong and I want to apologize for that. I wish I got it right but I got it wrong.”