Healthcare

[Ludlow]

True to a point... Blew my acl a year and a half ago; called and saw the family doc, sent me to the specialist, who sent me for an MRI and then replaced it. Yes, it needed approval; but in a completely government run operation I'd probably still be waiting for surgery because you can "live" with a blown acl... Maybe that's a little exaggerated, but I believe the private sector can do anything more efficiently than government. I think we have the right idea in this country, it's just poorly executed - too much special interests and pork...

Because Government is their biggest customer, and dictates the price. Just like Walmart and how it squeezes it's suppliers.

 

[begreen]

It is exaggerated. I know too many people living in other countries that would dispute the claim of a long delay for a blown ACL. Government agencies don't have to be inefficient, particularly when politicians keep their meddling hands off.

 

[NickW]

It is exaggerated. I know too many people living in other countries that would dispute the claim of a long delay for a blown ACL. Government agencies don't have to be inefficient, particularly when politicians keep their meddling hands off.

So are you saying you want government run health care but the meddling politicians to keep their hands off of it?

 

[begreen]

So are you saying you want government run health care but the meddling politicians to keep their hands off of it?

Government-run healthcare has succeeded in G20 nations. The root problem is treating healthcare as a profit center. Healthcare, like education, should not be profit-driven.

 

[Sodbuster]

Why would you lay off a Surgical Nurse then scream for people that are retires or have expired licenses to work? Because they don’t need the nurses in a lot of places because outside of a few hotspots this isn’t a big deal right now.

My wife an her colleagues get a good chuckle from your posts.

 

[Medic21]

My wife an her colleagues get a good chuckle from your posts.

Why? Because our statewide hospital census has been at a 5 year low for 6 weeks now? That’s what has happened all over. There are hospitals that have lost so much money with how this was handled, banning elective procedures, and never got that big influx of pts they have lost 50% of their revenue and are wondering how they will continue next month. This is how it played out in areas that were not a few large cities that were/are hit hard. The country is bigger than where you live.

During a Pandemic, an Unanticipated Problem: Out-of-Work Health Workers (Published 2020)

Across the country, plunging revenues from canceled nonemergency medical appointments have forced hospitals to furlough or cut the pay of doctors, nurses and other staff.

www.google.com

 

[Medic21]

I’m sitting at work right now. Today we had a briefing from the local health department. They cancelled all medical procedures per the governors orders 5 weeks ago at the community hospital. Today they have 3 covid pts admitted in the hospital out of 120 cases in the county. They have 5 other pts admitted in the hospital. 8 patients in a 40 bed community hospital. 4 nurses working out of a normal staff of 25 on the floor. The rest had hours cut due to a low census.

My wife works at one of 5 level 1 and 2 trauma centers in the state. She has had her hours down staffed in the ER 6 times this month. Why? No patients coming in. She is qualified to work ICU and they have been down staffing every day also so she doesn’t work. I take transfers to these facilities and see more open beds than I have in a decade.

Indianapolis is not like that. Other large cities are not like that. According to the State we have 50% of our ICU beds available today. it’s more than yesterday.

Tell me what’s so comical about what I said?

 

[Sodbuster]

There will be an influx of patients at some point, and then they will be at 100% capacity. Plus PICU doesn't figure into this number, some surgeries are still proceeding, and illnesses never take a break. You're God complex is typical of what they see from Paramedics.

 

[Medic21]

There will be an influx of patients at some point, and then they will be at 100% capacity. Plus PICU doesn't figure into this number, some surgeries are still proceeding, and illnesses never take a break. You're God complex is typical of what they see from Paramedics.

You speculate there will be an influx. There is nothing that guarantees it. There is more indication it has started to flatten out now. I have no idea if they figured PICU numbers into there reporting or not. I do know from a family member that is a pediatric infectious disease specialist that she has had zero covid pts inpatient so far. This is not a kids disease in the way it effects those over 50 especially.

Frankly I’ve dealt with enough arrogant Doctors Helpers over the years I could care less if they think a Paramedic has a god complex. We do totally different jobs and I don’t pretend to do theirs. They can’t do mine just based on skill level, scope of practice, and lack of a physician to direct what I do on scene. There is a reason why the Paramedic is in charge of the RN on a medical helicopter. It’s our world not theirs.

Frankly if all she can come up with is a God Complex to counter what we are seeing in our area then the opinion is empty of any substance.

 

[bholler]

You speculate there will be an influx. There is nothing that guarantees it. There is more indication it has started to flatten out now. I have no idea if they figured PICU numbers into there reporting or not. I do know from a family member that is a pediatric infectious disease specialist that she has had zero covid pts inpatient so far. This is not a kids disease in the way it effects those over 50 especially.

Frankly I’ve dealt with enough arrogant Doctors Helpers over the years I could care less if they think a Paramedic has a god complex. We do totally different jobs and I don’t pretend to do theirs. They can’t do mine just based on skill level, scope of practice, and lack of a physician to direct what I do on scene. There is a reason why the Paramedic is in charge of the RN on a medical helicopter. It’s our world not theirs.

Frankly if all she can come up with is a God Complex to counter what we are seeing in our area then the opinion is empty of any substance.

You talk about how you don't pretend to do their jobs yet you are on here telling us all how you know more about this pandemic than people like Fauci. Do you not see the irony?

 

[Medic21]

You talk about how you don't pretend to do their jobs yet you are on here telling us all how you know more about this pandemic than people like Fauci. Do you not see the irony?

I know what I see. I listen to people equally credentialed on the other side of the house. Are their opinions less validated because they have a different one. They are just as smart as the others.

I see the data coming out of antibody testing that suggests we could have exponentially higher cases. To the point it’s possible the death rate is under the seasonal flu, it looks scarier because it happened in a shorter time period. Some of that needs vetted and needs further studies. NYC is doing the largest test run starting today.

I’m not listening to someone based on a political appointment. Remember he said 1-2 million deaths by now. There is a whole big picture out there. We are nowhere out if the woods but, I am a perfect example that steps can be taken to mitigate risks without closing everything down and destroying livelihoods and the economy.

 

[bholler]

I know what I see. I listen to people equally credentialed on the other side of the house. Are their opinions less validated because they have a different one. They are just as smart as the others.

I see the data coming out of antibody testing that suggests we could have exponentially higher cases. To the point it’s possible the death rate is under the seasonal flu, it looks scarier because it happened in a shorter time period. Some of that needs vetted and needs further studies. NYC is doing the largest test run starting today.

I’m not listening to someone based on a political appointment. Remember he said 1-2 million deaths by now. There is a whole big picture out there. We are nowhere out if the woods but, I am a perfect example that steps can be taken to mitigate risks without closing everything down and destroying livelihoods and the economy.

Who said 1 to 2 million and when?

 

[Ashful]

Government-run healthcare has succeeded in G20 nations. The root problem is treating healthcare as a profit center. Healthcare, like education, should not be profit-driven.

I think the issue here is that the political and economic conditions that have turned us into the most powerful nation in the world over the last 70 years are the same conditions that will not allow us to have great success with government-run healthcare. You can’t always have your cake, and eat it too.

Before you get too high on those nations with successful government-run healthcare, let’s consider the opportunities that our system provides to us, which most in those other countries can only wish to have. I have spent some small fraction of nearly every year working in Europe, entirely countries with government-run healthcare, for 25 years now. The engineers, salesmen, and other professionals I regularly deal with over there envy our standard of living, they will simply never achieve it in their system. Of course, I’m not ignoring that some at the bottom of that employment food chain likely feel the reverse, there are pros and cons in every chosen system.

I suppose that we could easily provide our citizenry with all of the rights and standards of living of Russia, China, that great world-economic powerhouse of Canada, or other similarly-sized countries with similar or greater natural resources, if our goal is to have government more involved in our daily lives. But I think our system has proven far better, at least for nearly everyone I know. Yes, I have many Chinese friends, and even four coworkers born and raised in Russia. I don’t associate with Canadians, though.

 

[SpaceBus]

TriCare for all is sounding pretty nice right now. Good thing there's already been decades of pilot testing for socialized medicine.

@Ashful have you ever received medical care from Germany? Obviously Russia and China have about the same standards as the US for the majority of things, unless you are wealthy and then folks can get the good medical care. Germany affords top level care to all people regardless of income. S. Korea is like this too. I've actually gotten a broken arm set and put in a cast in Germany, and that was the easiest hospital visit of my life. No bill, no BS, just the care I needed. You are right that economic policies allowed for the rich of this country to get richer over the last century. For profit Healthcare is an excellent example of a policy that helps the rich get richer. You talk about all this wealth as if everyone got to see it, almost like you are a socialist!

 

[Medic21]

Who said 1 to 2 million and when?

(broken link removed)

 

[RockCastile]

Remember he said 1-2 million deaths by now

Did you read the WaPo article you just cited to prove it? You would have seen this quote from Fauci: “I’ve looked at all the models. I’ve spent a lot of time on the models. They don’t tell you anything. You can’t really rely upon models." Same article also states the 2 million figure was based on 5-6 modelers assuming NO action taken. The 1 million figure assuming "moderate mitigation" efforts.

Fauci's thoughts on the 1-2 million figure? See:

As Trump Imagines '2.2 Million Deaths' From COVID-19 in the U.S., a Top Federal Disease Expert Cautions Against Believing Worst-Case Scenarios

During his COVID-19 briefing yesterday, President Donald Trump suggested that the control measures implemented so far should keep the number of deaths

www.google.com

 

[bholler]

(broken link removed)

As Trump Imagines '2.2 Million Deaths' From COVID-19 in the U.S., a Top Federal Disease Expert Cautions Against Believing Worst-Case Scenarios

During his COVID-19 briefing yesterday, President Donald Trump suggested that the control measures implemented so far should keep the number of deaths

reason.com

I still can't figure out who made the original claim but it was for an unmitigated pandemic and even then Fauci thinks it is high.

 

[Sodbuster]

Frankly I’ve dealt with enough arrogant Doctors Helpers over the years I could care less if they think a Paramedic has a god complex.

Why do you assume she's a nurse, is it because she's a women?

 

[mcdougy]

Our not for profit hospitals here, didn't cut ANY staff. The stories of Canadian health care failures are few and wait times are within reason. Our sons acl was 2.5 months from diagnosis to the table. Not perfect, but within reason, he asked for some of the delay because he wanted to do it once school had finished. If I recall it would have been a 45 day wait vs the 75 day he requested.

 

[Ashful]

@Ashful have you ever received medical care from Germany? Obviously Russia and China have about the same standards as the US for the majority of things, unless you are wealthy and then folks can get the good medical care. Germany affords top level care to all people regardless of income.

Yes, actually I have spent more time in Germany than any other country, I used to live there a fraction of every year, in the late 1990’s. It is a very good system, and in fact I had debated relocating there permanently at one time before I had a family, but that was not the point of my prior post.

My point was that those friends of mine with similar jobs living in Germany were cramming their entire families into 1000 sq.ft. flats or having to live with their parents in multi-generational households, when I and my American coworkers were sprawling in 4x to 8x the house with 10x to 100x the property at a similar level of experience and education. I don’t want to confuse causation for correlation, there are many factors in the equation with healthcare being but one factor, but the fact remains that any suburban professional here can live like royalty compared to their professional equivalent in Germany.

 

[SpaceBus]

Yes, actually I have spent more time in Germany than any other country, I used to live there a fraction of every year, in the late 1990’s. It is a very good system, and in fact I had debated relocating there permanently at one time before I had a family, but that was not the point of my prior post.

My point was that those friends of mine with similar jobs living in Germany were cramming their entire families into 1000 sq.ft. flats or having to live with their parents in multi-generational households, when I and my American coworkers were sprawling in 4x to 8x the house with 10x to 100x the property at a similar level of experience and education. I don’t want to confuse causation for correlation, there are many factors in the equation with healthcare being but one factor, but the fact remains that any suburban professional here can live like royalty compared to their professional equivalent in Germany.

Germany is also much, much older and smaller than the US. It's kind of like comparing apples to shoes I suppose. I wish Americans would live in larger multi generational houses. It has proven to be a bad thing for the pandemic, but usually it is a good thing. Folks keep their wealth within their families and can do more for each other if they stay together. After having lived in Italy, England, and several US states while also traveling across Europe and the US I can say most Americans live in wastefully large houses for seemingly no good reason. Perhaps some folks like being able to say their house is huge, but that's just a liability to me. All those extra unused rooms to clean, higher energy bills, and more maintenance. If your large family is occupying all the square footage it makes sense, but that's why I called most homes wastefully large, not tastelessly large which I think they are.


Anyway, this has drifted I suppose.

 

[Ashful]

Germany is also much, much older and smaller than the US. It's kind of like comparing apples to shoes I suppose. I wish Americans would live in larger multi generational houses. It has proven to be a bad thing for the pandemic, but usually it is a good thing. Folks keep their wealth within their families and can do more for each other if they stay together. After having lived in Italy, England, and several US states while also traveling across Europe and the US I can say most Americans live in wastefully large houses for seemingly no good reason. Perhaps some folks like being able to say their house is huge, but that's just a liability to me. All those extra unused rooms to clean, higher energy bills, and more maintenance. If your large family is occupying all the square footage it makes sense, but that's why I called most homes wastefully large, not tastelessly large which I think they are.


Anyway, this has drifted I suppose.

Hey, I wasn’t the one who cited Germany as the example to debate, I was only responding to your question about it. But I wouldn’t say it’s drifted, it’s all interconnected, and likely all good information for someone to debate.

And you can live with my mother-in-law, if you want... I will not.

 

[SpaceBus]

Hey, I wasn’t the one who cited Germany as the example to debate, I was only responding to your question about it. But I wouldn’t say it’s drifted, it’s all interconnected, and likely all good information for someone to debate.

And you can live with my mother-in-law, if you want... I will not.

Usually the wife's mother stays at her own house in these situations, but I do understand. I don't think living with my MIL is an option either. Most of my family is estranged, so I do understand that it doesn't always work!

 

[bholler]

Yes, actually I have spent more time in Germany than any other country, I used to live there a fraction of every year, in the late 1990’s. It is a very good system, and in fact I had debated relocating there permanently at one time before I had a family, but that was not the point of my prior post.

My point was that those friends of mine with similar jobs living in Germany were cramming their entire families into 1000 sq.ft. flats or having to live with their parents in multi-generational households, when I and my American coworkers were sprawling in 4x to 8x the house with 10x to 100x the property at a similar level of experience and education. I don’t want to confuse causation for correlation, there are many factors in the equation with healthcare being but one factor, but the fact remains that any suburban professional here can live like royalty compared to their professional equivalent in Germany.

That may all be true. But really the urban professional isn't the one who has trouble affording healthcare here.

 

[begreen]

You speculate there will be an influx. There is nothing that guarantees it.

Given the transmissibility of this virus and the fact that less than 5% has been exposed, it seems there is a fairly good chance of an extended influx wouldn't you say? If history is any lesson, this seems guaranteed when stay as home orders are relaxed.