Healthcare

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The engineers, salesmen, and other professionals I regularly deal with over there envy our standard of living, they will simply never achieve it in their system. Of course, I’m not ignoring that some at the bottom of that employment food chain likely feel the reverse, there are pros and cons in every chosen system.
I have experienced the opposite, working with engineers too. Some think that what is happening here in the healthcare realm is absurd. FWIW, they are not in small flats either, but not in sprawling mansions either. That is by choice. The bigger the place the more stuff it collects and the more there is to maintain.
 
Given the transmissibility of this virus and the fact that less than 5% has been exposed, it seems there is a fairly good chance of an extended influx wouldn't you say? If history is any lesson, this seems guaranteed when stay as home orders are relaxed.
Except the other side is know starting to show, through early antibody testing, that a much larger portion of the population has had it. Some number thrown out at almost 30% of the population in some areas. I know it’s early and those studies need peer reviewed, vetted, and further studies need completed but initial numbers are 25x and up to 85x the number of known cases is the actual number of cases.

Somewhere in there is the actual number and I do believe this based in wht we do know about how contagious this is.
 
I’m real interested to see the eventual results of post-viral testing, when all of us that never had suspected or confirmed cases get tested, and many find out they had this thing without ever knowing it. I hope I’m so lucky to be in that group, I’ve heard estimates it may represent approximately 50% of all cases.

Roughly applying that 50% estimate to begreen’s quoted 5% of the population having had confirmed or suspected cases, we can assume 10% of the population has already been exposed and built immunity. Still a very small number, and many more to go...
 
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You speculate there will be an influx. There is nothing that guarantees it. There is more indication it has started to flatten out now. I have no idea if they figured PICU numbers into there reporting or not. I do know from a family member that is a pediatric infectious disease specialist that she has had zero covid pts inpatient so far. This is not a kids disease in the way it effects those over 50 especially.

Frankly I’ve dealt with enough arrogant Doctors Helpers over the years I could care less if they think a Paramedic has a god complex. We do totally different jobs and I don’t pretend to do theirs. They can’t do mine just based on skill level, scope of practice, and lack of a physician to direct what I do on scene. There is a reason why the Paramedic is in charge of the RN on a medical helicopter. It’s our world not theirs.

Frankly if all she can come up with is a God Complex to counter what we are seeing in our area then the opinion is empty of any substance.


You speculate there will be an influx. There is nothing that guarantees it. There is more indication it has started to flatten out now. I have no idea if they figured PICU numbers into there reporting or not. I do know from a family member that is a pediatric infectious disease specialist that she has had zero covid pts inpatient so far. This is not a kids disease in the way it effects those over 50 especially.

Frankly I’ve dealt with enough arrogant Doctors Helpers over the years I could care less if they think a Paramedic has a god complex. We do totally different jobs and I don’t pretend to do theirs. They can’t do mine just based on skill level, scope of practice, and lack of a physician to direct what I do on scene. There is a reason why the Paramedic is in charge of the RN on a medical helicopter. It’s our world not theirs.

Frankly if all she can come up with is a God Complex to counter what we are seeing in our area then the opinion is empty of any substance.

Well my wife in an anesthesiologist MD, so fail on Dr's helper, and my daughter is a PICU nurse. They've both seen a fair share of Paramedic F'ups. Not to be disrespectful there are good and bad in every profession.
 
I’m real interested to see the eventual results of post-viral testing, when all of us that never had suspected or confirmed cases get tested, and many find out they had this thing without ever knowing it. I hope I’m so lucky to be in that group, I’ve heard estimates it may represent approximately 50% of all cases.

Roughly applying that 50% estimate to begreen’s quoted 5% of the population having had confirmed or suspected cases, we can assume 10% of the population has already been exposed and built immunity. Still a very small number, and many more to go...
Then there is this.
 
Well my wife in an anesthesiologist MD, so fail on Dr's helper, and my daughter is a PICU nurse. They've both seen a fair share of Paramedic F'ups. Not to be disrespectful there are good and bad in every profession.
I will not disagree with that statement. There are ER Docs that I would take any family member to, ones I’d drink with, and ones I take pts to other hospitals when they are working. My wife is a
NP in a Level 2 Trauma Center Pediatric ER, she has been there for 16 years and all her coworkers run the entire spectrum. Hell, I have coworkers that the only pt I’d feel comfortable with them having would be my ex wife if she was dying, take care of a lot of problems I have.

Yes I was a little harsh, I’m sick of all the nurses that disrespect Paramedics. I can and will run circles around a lot of RNs in an emergency and that’s not a god complex, that’s 25 years of service with more than 1 combat deployment as a flight medic. That’s knowing nothing will be thrown at me to shake me and surprise me.

People take it as arrogance and RNs don’t understand that. I did a surgical airway in the ER the other day, I did way too many in combat and one of the RNs complained because I did it instead of the doc. The reason was the doc had only ever done one on a pig trach and this guy was a nightmare scenario. They do not understand what we do and what we can do. I respect the hell out of the anesthesiologists, I learned so much from them flying pts from a forward surgical teams to trauma teams in combat. If you want to learn how to resuscitate a pt thats who you talk to. We spend about 40 hrs 1 on 1 in Paramedic school with one for airway training. But, when was the last time she RSId a pt pinned in a vehicle on the side of the highway in a snow storm? Or in the living room on the floor during a cardiac arrest? Or in a 8 by 8 bathroom at 3am? We do a very unpredictable job in very austere conditions compared to an operating room suit. We are expected to perform without mistakes and without hesitation. All while being the only advanced provider on scene 99% of the time. I get to do all this with the closest trauma center 2 hours away by ground.

The job we do is 1000 times different from anything the hospital staff does. When your daughter has a pt crash there is an advanced provider in the room to run the code. That’s me where ever it happens. I’m the doc, nurse,rt, and registration clerk rolled into one in someone’s house or wherever the call happens to be. One of the best ER docs I know failed as a Paramedic, he couldn’t perform in those conditions. Almost all RNs that become Paramedics suck at working prehospital. Almost all experienced Paramedics that become RNs excel.

I’m very good at my job and happy as a Paramedic. I may be a little arrogant at times but, I’ll back it up anytime I need to. I’ve been wrong and I’ve learned from it. I learn something every shift I work.
 
Well my wife in an anesthesiologist MD, so fail on Dr's helper, and my daughter is a PICU nurse. They've both seen a fair share of Paramedic F'ups. Not to be disrespectful there are good and bad in every profession.
Oh, and you’re in Michigan. We laugh at the Michigan Paramedics and their limits. Not all states are the same and northern Indiana is some of the most advanced prehospital care you will find anywhere in the nation.
 
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Nan and I LOVE Green Acres. I am so Oliver. Nan is so Lisa. Great show!
 
Nan and I LOVE Green Acres. I am so Oliver. Nan is so Lisa. Great show!
I’m almost ashamed to admit it, it must be about the dumbest thing anyone ever put on film, but I do get a real kick out of that show. That particular was on last night’s re-run on MeTV, I thought it might bring some levity to this thread.
 
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I’m almost ashamed to admit it, it must be about the dumbest thing anyone ever put on film, but I do get a real kick out of that show. That particular was on last night’s re-run on MeTV, I thought it might bring some levity to this thread.
It is fairly entertaining. I find that most 50's and 60's era TV shows to be enjoyable. I especially like seeing all the old american made appliances that are probably still around...
 
Oh, and you’re in Michigan. We laugh at the Michigan Paramedics and their limits. Not all states are the same and northern Indiana is some of the most advanced prehospital care you will find anywhere in the nation.

While we are on the topic, I had a chance to talk to my wife about this discussion, and here is her take on it:
1. Your combat training was very essential in your becoming the Paramedic you are today. She works with a fellow MD who had combat training and her skills and training are impressive, her words not mine.
2. Your emergency trach in the ER, was risky, if it had gone south, who would you call? Most hospitals have an Anesthesia or ENT team on
standby for situations like this, unless they are a very small hospital.
3. Many non Military Paramedics bring the patient in with the tube in the goose, more often than not.
4. We all work in our own areas of expertise, and all help each other. What's the smallest baby you've had to intubate?

The other situations you mentioned she certainly could handle, but doesn't get calls like you do, or a a fully stocked rig.
 
While we are on the topic, I had a chance to talk to my wife about this discussion, and here is her take on it:
1. Your combat training was very essential in your becoming the Paramedic you are today. She works with a fellow MD who had combat training and her skills and training are impressive, her words not mine.
2. Your emergency trach in the ER, was risky, if it had gone south, who would you call? Most hospitals have an Anesthesia or ENT team on
standby for situations like this, unless they are a very small hospital.
3. Many non Military Paramedics bring the patient in with the tube in the goose, more often than not.
4. We all work in our own areas of expertise, and all help each other. What's the smallest baby you've had to intubate?

The other situations you mentioned she certainly could handle, but doesn't get calls like you do, or a a fully stocked rig.
2) if I hadn’t done it’s would have just called the corner anyways there was no way to adequately ventilate the patient between me the flight crew the doc they were close to 10 intubation attempts and multiple failed supraglotic airways. First one I had ever done outside of the military.

3) There’s a big problem with additional training after paramedic school. The reality most paramedics are required to do more intubations to graduate paramedic school then they will do in the next five years in their career. If medics are failing to recognize a situation like that. Then that falls back on their medical director and their supervisors and their failure to ensure proper patient care. This does not happen anywhere around me. If a medic did it once And failed to recognize it they’d have a different career.

4) A five day old Shaken baby. I’ve RSI’d A handful of pediatric trauma patients over the years. It’s not preferable or normally needed to intubate kids in the prehospital setting. The skill of controlling an airway Is a simple muscle memory skill. The when and why Is the hard part

just like being a firefighter or police officer a mechanic or any other occupation the person is only as good as they want to learn and they want to train. We’ve had a huge disconnect for years in EMS there’s been no budgets for training. There’s no time for training. Some of us spend money out of our own pockets and take our own time to attend relevant trainings. I will admit this is not the norm.
 
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About 3.5 million people lost their employer-paid health insurance in the last 2 weeks of March. The April tally is not in but it's estimated to be 35 million. The number of uninsured in Australia, Austria, Belgium, Canada, Chile, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Italy, Japan, New Zealand, Norway, Portugal, S. Korea, Spain, Sweden, Turkey, and the UK - 0 - zero - none.
 
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Govt run works. Everyone has the same level of care, staff are paid to get trained, nurses make 90-100k with a little o.t., custodial staff make 25$ an hour, rpn's 35$, psw $30. ...etc etc. The local hospital network employs around 16,000 workers across 3 locations. Management are the toughest spots to fill. Entry level management is 105k with a tremendous amount of work and stress, many people return to their previous jobs. Paramedics I would assume is somewhere in the neighborhood of 85k-100k with some o.t. It's a good deal for ALL. Keeping it completely govt run is the answer, mixing it with private/govt subsidized does not work. Level of care goes down. LTC facilities in general are our examples of the mixed system. Psw at a LTC facility makes 18$ and only gets hired part time hours, making them work at several locations. Nurses are the same story at LTC as well, Part time/no benefits less pay.
 
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Govt run works... nurses make 90-100k with a little o.t.,
You say that as if it is a good thing. Personally, I don’t want to pay nurses 3x the national average individual income in this country, every time I need medical care. That is completely insane.
 
You say that as if it is a good thing. Personally, I don’t want to pay nurses 3x the national average individual salary in this country, every time I need medical care. That is completely insane.
The difference here is you pay insurance companies and large medical groups etc. massive amounts ontop of what the medical professionals get paid. I would much rather have the people giving care more money and cut out the multiple levels of paper pushers who don't contribute to care but get a large share of the profits.

And why is it you think nurses arent worth that much?
 
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The difference here is you pay insurance companies and large medical groups etc. massive amounts ontop of what the medical professionals get paid. I would much rather have the people giving care more money and cut out the multiple levels of paper pushers who don't contribute to care but get a large share of the profits.

And why is it you think nurses arent worth that much?
You make a good point about insurance overhead. But your final question is absurd, it has nothing to do with my personal feelings. The free market determined what nurses are worth, not me. People who choose to pursue a career in nursing despite todays known salary statistics, including three in my direct family, determine what nurses are worth... not me.

Hey, it would be great if everyone could suddenly double their income, despite the choices they’ve made, whether that be a choice to go to school for nursing or otherwise. Then every service and product would cost twice as much, and we’d end up right back where we started. Of course, that already happens over time, we call it inflation.
 
You make a good point about insurance overhead. But your final question is absurd, it has nothing to do with my personal feelings. The free market determined what nurses are worth, not me. People who choose to pursue a career in nursing despite todays known salary statistics, including three in my direct family, determine what nurses are worth... not me.

Hey, it would be great if everyone could suddenly double their income, despite the choices they’ve made, whether that be a choice to go to school for nursing or otherwise. Then every service and product would cost twice as much, and we’d end up right back where we started. Of course, that already happens over time, we call it inflation.
The difference is the healthcare system isn't exactly a free market. And if we had a properly executed single payer system nurses could easily be paid double what they are paid while still drastically reducing the cost of healthcare.
 
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The difference is the healthcare system isn't exactly a free market. And if we had a properly executed single payer system nurses could easily be paid double what they are paid while still drastically reducing the cost of healthcare.
Maybe. Sounds utopian. I don’t think it’s a realistic expectation, though.
 
You say that as if it is a good thing. Personally, I don’t want to pay nurses 3x the national average individual income in this country, every time I need medical care. That is completely insane.

So you think my daughter should have gone through 4 years of nursing school, work in a PICU with very sick children, with syndromes most people have never heard of, and be ECMO (very complicated) certified for 30K a year. I pray no one in your family whether it's your own children or grand children get very ill, or have some rare condition. Have them treated by a 30K RN.
 
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