Healthcare
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SpaceBus
Minister of Fire
Ashful
Minister of Fire
I didn’t say they did. I was replying to a post that said Canadian nurses all make $90k to $100k. The average individual salary in the US was $31.1k in 2017, according to the US Bureau of Labor Statistics. The claimed $90k - $100k rate of all Canadian nurses, the truth of which I actually doubt, would be 3x the average US annual income. That is what I said, but several people here seem to be incapable of not reading more into, or applying their own agenda to that simple statement.
Each of the nurses in my direct family, are or have been relatively well-paid, as well. When I say relative, I mean the one with an MS is making nearly 3x the average US annual income with 25 years experience, and the one with the BS is making more than double the annual US income with about 13 years experience.
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Ashful
Minister of Fire
Leveraging for higher income is not solely reserved for the destitute. We can find plenty of examples of wealthy people extorting their employers, customers, and patrons for higher income. I don’t think the fact that they were striking is proof if anything, one way or the other.
It's the difference in systems.....the USA and canadian system are much different. Here 90k/4weeks holidays IS the average for a nurse. Ashful why is it wrong to be paid well for this career? IIRC a USA health benefits cost on average 7500 per year, ours is roughly 9000 a year via your taxes. The difference in cost is outweighed by the amount the employees get paid. Remember if people earn more money, they spend and spread the money as well. Here teachers and fireman also make right around 90 to 100k. The system works well IMO, a good paying job is beneficial for the economy AND THE PERSON. Be happy for people doing well. As you have said there is alot of good jobs available, the more there are, the better.
Salary Disclosure | LHSC
London Health Sciences Centre, along with other Ontario government-funded organizations, is mandated to publicly disclose the salaries and benefits of employees who made more than $100,000. 2022 employee salaries and benefits report
Canadian govt employees (nurses,teachers,fireman,....etc) who make over 100k is public information. Click the link a check out the list ......many registered nurses. Base salary is 48$ an hour add in shift premiums and it's a little over $50. Add in some overtime and you get over 100k. My wife was 99k last year.
City of London salary info | Ontario Sunshine List
Search the list of employees from City of London that appeared on Ontario's sunshine list.
For the "serious doubters"
First of all, I do our own taxes, since it became so easy under the tax reform act under President Trump. We don't come close to the itemized deductions, so the standard deduction is a no brainer for us.
Second, we pay for a higher level of health coverage, since my wife has some health issues. We do not need prior authorization to see a specialist. We also have a dear friend that holds a dual citizenship, both in Canada and the US, she chooses to have her health care performed in the US.
My daughter used to work for a non-union private employer, Beaumont Health Systems out of Royal Oak Michigan. As a rule, I'm not big on unions, but in this case they need one. Beaumont keeps taking and taking and taking and the nurses have no way to organize, without a union. They still are doing it, taking this benefit, reducing another, and the nurses have no way to fight back. Meanwhile the CEO makes more every year, geez I sound like Begreen
She transitioned to a larger hospital with a strong union and has done well ever since. The biggest problem is that Beaumont has lost many experienced, seasoned nurses, along this many CRNA's. So they have a whole group of new nurses, new CRNA's who cannot teach and pass along their knowledge.
SpaceBus
Minister of Fire
They sure looked wealthy to me, but they definitely left their rolexes at home that day.
I'm not sure what you meant by the tax return part? What I was trying to say is....to "buy" a healthcare package in the U.S.A is roughly 7.5g a year? Here we don't purchase a plan, it's included in our taxes. I believe it equates to roughly 9g here.
Your friend may like u.s. healthcare better. That's great. Do they typically reside in the u.s.a.? Do they have a home still in Canada? It wouldn't be all that convenient to travel back to one of countries to get medical help if you have no real ties left there. Also I believe there is a rule in place for dual citizens that after a certain amount of time, if you have been in your "other" country, you must wait 3 months to have your medical benefits reinstated her in Canada. My Aunt who was born and raised in Ontario, has lived in Florida for 40yrs does not come back for healthcare either.
My only feeling on why a universal approach to healthcare is better than private is that no one gets left behind. I am not trying to ever say our doctors are better than others, our procedures are not more advanced, our nurses are not more talented,etc etc etc.... Its that EVERYONE GETS TREATMENT and it's NEVER a money burden to seek care for ANYTHING....eyes and dental are not included in this system. (Which is a shame)
Ashful
Minister of Fire
You misunderstood me, and perhaps I misunderstood you. All I’m saying is that the market determines the worth of a nurse, a doctor, an engineer, a gardener... anyone who is producing something. Here today, based on all of the combined factors of supply and demand, that worth is mid-$50k’s for inexperienced nurses out of school with an AS, to mid-$80k’s for an experienced nurse with an MS. My issue was the prior implication that all nurses were getting $90k to $100k per year, over the graduated and natural system we have today. After all, if the gap between MS and AS is so small, why would anyone put in that extra cost and effort for another 4 years of hellish school?
But because you asked, my underlying philosophy is that we as a nation have exceeded all others in wealth and power because we allow the individual to excel in ways that other nations do not, whether it be those extra 4 years of nursing school to make 60% more than fellow nurses with an AS only, or any other chosen profession . I believe the “profit center” complaints about our healthcare system from folks like bholler, while made with the best and most sincere intentions, ignore the fact that those profit motives are the sole reason we are ahead of the rest of the world in most areas of medical research.
Interesting background, sodbuster. And yeah, I also catch myself sounding like begreen often enough that my family has sometimes accused me of being a closet liberal. He is a smart guy, and a wealth of information with a lot of excellent arguments, and not the only one here about whom that could be said.As a rule, I'm not big on unions, but in this case they need one. .. the nurses have no way to fight back. Meanwhile the CEO makes more every year, geez I sound like Begreen
What I enjoy most about everyone on this thread is that we can discuss these politically-entangled issues without becoming unnecessarily hostile, this is how folks learn, gather data, and form or change their opinions.
True but when the insurance companies say we are only paying a given ammout that determines how much is left to pay nurses etc.
Yes we did exceed all others for the reasons you stated. But that is slipping away quickly partly because of the fact that our middle class is struggling.
And all of the medical advances in the world dont help those who can't afford healthcare or go bankrupted by medical bills
And yes I really enjoy the fact that we can have discussions here without the toxicity that abounds so many other places. I may not agree with you but I still respect your opinion.
If my reply shows up in different places, I apologize , it seems to be a glitch in my system.
McDoughy, my wife's employer offers different insurance plans, and if you want to "upgrade" you can, for a higher premium, otherwise you fall into an HMO type system, and I'm not sure what Canada offers, but basically you have to go to your Primary Care Physician for everything and they decide if you are worthy to see a specialist. It costs my wife's employer about $20K for this insurance, and we pay a good portion of that. If it wasn't for her health issues, we would go with the standard plan. Problem is she generally knows what the problem is and would rather skip to the specialist of her choice. The tax return part is probably irrelevant as I'm not sure how Canada's system works. Our friend, and it's a she only has residency's in both the US and Canada, and frequents both countries (until lately) to care for her mother who has Dementia. She is eligible for Canadian health care, and US health care through her American employer.
Ashful - I'm not sure where you are getting this information, but my daughter who is a PICU 4 year degree RN nurse has been on the job for 4 years now and is making $72K per year. She takes care of babies with syndromes most Pediatricians don't encounter over their entire career. The wealthy, along with some charitable organizations fly children from around the world because of the standard of care, and expertise at this hospital. We have exceeded all other nations in wealth and power because the world has adopted the US dollar as the world currency, and we can print it as well. I was watching 60 minutes the other night and they interviewed a Fed Chairman, who said they had been given the authority to print as much money as necessary to get us out of the Covid crisis. It's basically Monopoly money.
Finally, the hospitals and other institutions do not get reimbursed, nearly what they bill for. The hospital may bill my insurance company $5500 for an ER visit. By the time all the discounts they are probably reimbursed $1500 bucks. Someone, and I apologize for not going back far enough to check, said that the hospitals charge $100 for an IV bag, I can assure you no one is getting reimbursed $100 for a bag of salt water.
The other factor is the student loan debt that these nurses and doctors are carrying with them. This can be a couple hundred grand. I would MUCH rather our taxpayer dollars went toward paying off first responders and medical caregiver student loans than being used for stock buybacks.
Avg. Salary numbers are all over the place and the Avg dont really tell you much. . According to the IRS US average self employed gross is 15 to 29k Avg Net is 13K . But estimates outside the IRS, the figure is closer to 60K.
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A group of doctors invented health insurance I think. Employers started offering it to employees as a benefit and a way to keep and attract good employees. Employers took the initiative, not government.
I didn't think the govt had anything to do with it to start. It just doesn't make any sense at all.
Medic21
Minister of Fire
After some research it looks like it started because of a wage cap put in place by the national war labor board. Because they couldn't offer more pay to attract the limited number of employees available they started offering other benifits.
SpaceBus
Minister of Fire
I'm not sure that this fits in this discussion, but I had had to go the ER for chest pain, turned out to be benign. However on the CT scan, the Radiologist made note of a 5 MM nodule on my lower lung. The ER NP. recommended a follow up scan, and my primary Dr. agreed and ordered the test. Well, in steps BCBS of Michigan, and denied prior authorization, because the body part had been scanned within their 6 month window. My Dr. appealed the claim, but it was still denied. So I will wait my 6 months, and ask my Dr. for a followup CT. She wanted the CT, because original one only showed the lower lung and not the entire lung.
When I got out of the Corps in 1966 I had two choices of employment. USPS or City of Plainfield NJ. I chose the city because of the benefits. No union. After 5 years I went to Ma Bell again for the bennies, union this time tho I never joined. So that lure of benefits has been around for some time.
