Yes it apparently started during WWII. That doesn't mean it makes any more sense
Healthcare
- Thread starter AlbergSteve
- Start date
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If pay and benefits are equal, you'd be a fool not to take the job with the same pay and lower out of pocket insurance premiums.
So are you saying that you didn't get the ct scan the doc wanted because your insurance wouldn't pay?
Looks like many Canadians like the govt run healthcare vs private
Yes of course. That isn't what I am saying makes no sense. What makes no sense is the idea that employers are responsible for supplying health insurance.
Yes, you are correct, I did not get the CT. The Insurance companies here have way too much control, it's my Dr who should be making the call, with a proper diagnosis code, not the insurance company.
You are correct, employers are under no obligation to provide health care coverage, with the only exception being Obama care,thankfully we've not had to deal with that, Life insurance, long and short term disability, dental, vision are all benefits that are added to help draw in the best employees.
Jan Pijpelink
Minister of Fire
I might be lucky. I work at a company that has the following.
Full health care for both me and my spouse
Full dental for me and my spouse
Full vision for me and my spouse
Short term disability
Long term disability (unlimited)
Life (2 annual salaries for me)
Life for my spouse 50K
Company pays 90% of the premiums.
Full health care for both me and my spouse
Full dental for me and my spouse
Full vision for me and my spouse
Short term disability
Long term disability (unlimited)
Life (2 annual salaries for me)
Life for my spouse 50K
Company pays 90% of the premiums.
Ashful
Minister of Fire
They are not. YOU are responsible for tour health insurance, just as you are responsible for your homeowners, auto, and life insurance. Many employers choose to offer you health insurance as an additional benefit to your total compensation package, but until Obamacare, there was never any requirement for anyone to have health insurance as a stipulation on employment. Employers choose to offer this benefit for several reasons, as it is a net savings to them, versus directly compensating the employees.
Are you assuming your employer will fire you if you get sick? There are laws protecting you from that, at least in my state. Also, if for some reason you choose not to go back to work during an illness, programs like COBRA allow you to remain on the employers group policy, at their group policy rate, out of your own pocket.
I think that is part familiarity, and part the news you watch. Many Americans are terrified of gov’t run healthcare, likely for the same two reasons. By a similar token, I’ve met many Europeans who think they have a 50/50% chance of being shot by us “gun-toting” Americans, on any given trip to the US.
SpaceBus
Minister of Fire
I've never met anyone who has worked for a non government employer with those kinds of benefits, so count yourself lucky.
Have you ever checked what it costs for a small company to provide healthcare to their employees? It is not a net savings at all.
SpaceBus
Minister of Fire
No, I'm saying that you aren't paying into the company health insurance policy if you aren't working. Unless the employer offers a disability program then you aren't getting health insurance if you aren't working. How can one pay for COBRA if they are laid up and can't work? Why should someone be forced to choose between going to work during an illness and being able to feed their family or even see the doctor? This whole thing is broken, and nobody asked to be born into this world. We have no choice but to be here, so maybe we should all make the experience a bit more pleasant. Sometimes life will strike you down with an inexplicable illness and then you are disabled for life. I'm lucky that it happened to me while in the army, because most civilian employers would have left me high and dry.
The US Military and most other government agencies offer tricare which is basically universal socialized medicine. Tricare Prime requires no out of pocket fees and most don't have to pay any premiums. As a retiree I can get this coverage at a mere $200 annually, but I would not be able to choose my provider. On Tricare Select I pay a bit of out of pocket cost (peanuts)to choose my provider and I don't have any premiums. Tricare is even handled by humana now, so I see it as only a matter of time until the Federal government institutes Tricare for all. With hospitals no longer operating for profit medical supply costs will plummet thus destroying the predatory insurance companies. All American would have access to medical care at all times resulting in healthier Americans with lower healthcare costs overall. Preventing chronic illness like Diabetes is far cheaper than treating it.
Ashful
Minister of Fire
Yes, actually. My father and grandfather both owned small businesses when I was young, each just a handful of employees. I was speaking more about medium size companies and up, as that's my world, but even small companies can benefit by purchasing their insurance thru associations. My father used ASME, and I presently have some of my insruance thru IEEE. Does CSIA offer group rates?
But the point was that an employer may be able to provide an agreeable level of coverage for an employee at a cost of $1000 per month, but it may cost that employee $1800 per month to purchase the same amount of coverage as an individual. The employer could directly pay the employee the $1800 per month, and then get payroll taxed on top of that, or simply provide a group coverage plan at $1000 per month. As an employer trying to attract the top talent in your field in a competitive job market (eg. WWII, the 1990's, or the last 3 years until six weeks ago), which would you choose?
US Drug Prices vs The World
Prescription drugs cost more in the U.S. than most anywhere else in the world. As a result, Americans are illegally importing drugs from other countries.
www.drugwatch.com
Is this still how it is?
Some companies like utilities still have great benefits, they include those costs in the ratebase. Other companies that depend on skilled workers have figured out the only way they can retain older skilled workers is to give them good benefits. My prior employer was a family owned firm that did very specialized engineering services, they had good benefits because the older workers needed them and appreciated them . Kids out of college think they dont need benefits as much and tend to move around to chase pay but once they start to grow up, get married and have kids the benefits start to win out.
Yeah, my bennies were the same as Jan minus spouse life ins. with ma bell. When I got discharged had wife & daughter so that came first over wages. In fact pumped gas at nite to make up the difference needed.
And to me that is a big part of the problem. People like to argue that social programs stifle entrepreneurship. When in fact our current system makes it much harder to go out on your own and attract quality employees. Especially in the beginning.
Ashful
Minister of Fire
hah, I read that prior post totally differently, admiring Paul for working the extra hours to get ahead. I worked damn near every waking hour, and then some, in my 20’s and early 30’s before I had kids. Wouldn’t be anywhere near where I am today, if I hadn’t.
BTW I went from good benefits to no benefits. Its highly unlikely I am going to be able to find a job with my speciality unless I want to move and my retirement horizon is just a few years. I live where most folks want to retire so I do consulting part time and do not plan to move. The company I work for is new, I negotiated a very reasonable weekly rate with 30% added to cover my benefits. I am writing checks to ACA for $700 a month for a high deductible health care plan so I can do a HSA and another $25 for bare bone dental. I will mostly likely be paying that for 5 more years to make it to Medicare and then will have to pay extra for the Medicare B &C plans (like almost everyone else). I am single and always was getting the short end of the stick from companies with good benefits as I am single and have always been healthy and have a fairly healthy lifestyle. The companies outlay for an employee with a wife and kids and unhealthy lifestyle was a lot more yet I didnt get extra pay for the difference. My preference would be a "cafeteria" plan where I get a set benefit stipend and then choose my services and let me spend the savings. When I shopped the ACA plans in my state the pricing was pretty simple. The extra cost for the gold versus a bronze plan was almost directly related to the the reduction in maximum out of pocket and deductibles. I just get the bronze plan and fully fund an HSA. If I dont use the services except for the preventative services, the HSA carries forward as long as I live. The HSA contribution is fully deductible and as long as its used for health care at some point in my life its tax free. I have the HSA invested in index funds and have enough to cover my insurance to when I qualify for medicare (assuming they dont move the goalposts).
My comment had nothing at all to do with his work ethic. It has to do with our current healthcare system where heath insurance has gotten so expensive most people simply cannot afford it on their own. Which means they need to take a job that offers them benifits. And small companies don't get discounts on insurance for their employees meaning our current system discorages entrepreneurship.
This is even worse for people like me with a pre existing condition. If my wife didn't have a job that provided us with health insurance I couldn't be self employed. There is simply no way I could pay the premiums.
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And yes I do strongly believe if everyone was paying for their insurance out of pocket personally insurance premiums would have never gotten as expensive as they have. People simply couldn't or wouldn't pay it.
Are the health coverages a taxable benefit in the USA when payed by the employer? As in shown as income/partly at the end of the year
Or they can't afford to retire.
My wife and I have enough set aside that we could probably comfortably retire if it were not for the cost of health care.
I think that the lack of affordable health care keeps many working for too long when maybe they should step aside.
I've been working hard since about the age of 12, paid my way through college, worked multiple jobs at once, and I've got enough hobbies and projects to keep me busy beyond my grave.
Now would be a great time for me to retire if it weren't for health care considerations.
sodbuster's story about not getting a ct scan when a dr. wanted it says it all about the us healthcare system. It's more about the money than your well being. Say what you want about govt. run healthcare, but in Canada if a dr. thought it was prudent you got a ct scan for a potentially serious condition, you wouldn't wait six months for one.
