Going off grid

[SpaceBus]

If your water heater is that old, I would replace it ASAP with a new one of same type. Who knows what kind of crud buildup is on the inside & on the elements, and it is on way borrowed time as far as suddenly springing a leak. At likely the very worst time.

You should be able to do that for less than $500 (without knowing your exact setup) and see immediate savings. I put ours up off the floor on a (very rugged) wooden stand, on a layer of 1" foam board. Wrapped a layer of 6" fiberglass around it (held in place with taped up foil bubble wrap - looks a little hokey but not all that bad). Added a heat trap at the outlet. It is very economical. Like I say, maybe $25/mo at similar all-in rates.

You should also be able to adapt a tank type heater to another heat source later if you want to, by T'ing off the bottom inlet or drain, and the relief valve fitting.

Yes, the water heater is changing soon, it's just hell trying to get someone to the house because of mud season. I think we've made up our minds to go with an LP on demand unit and a 40 gallon range boiler in the "attic" behind the bathroom above the utility room. The range boiler will be fed by the existing SWH and the wood cook stove going in this fall.

 

[begreen]

Will the 40 gallon "boiler" have any form of heating element or is it just a hot water storage tank fed by a hot water jacket on the stove below?

 

[SpaceBus]

Will the 40 gallon "boiler" have any form of heating element or is it just a hot water storage tank fed by a hot water jacket on the stove below?

Yes, it's not a true boiler, range boiler is the term for a water storage tank for a wood cook stove. They are not the same as an electric water heater tank or what folks use for hydronic heating. This tank will hold potable water from our well. Range boilers are not insulated and have several connections. Some are stainless steel and some have hyrastone liners, but I'm going with a stainless tank for a lighter weight option.

 

[Where2]

It's not the best deal though, at least right now. The way I understand it is you can pay forward on your bill with your excess generation and you can accrue a positive balance and you won't have to pay your bill The downside is this resets in January when you need that power generated the most. It's really not that great.

Actually, with my brief research on it last night, it sounds much better than the Gross Metering system that went into effect in 2017.

You mentioned you have some air sealing to do, that's where I'd start focusing my attack for quick results. Air infiltration is like tossing coins out an open window in your predominantly heating climate these past few months. Have you asked around to see if anyone you know has access to a thermal infrared camera? Heating season is the best time to go hunting down thermal issues with a thermal camera. Map them out, and plan an attack for summer, working from largest to smallest issues.

Having heated my Maine hot water for showers for an entire summer using the oil fired boiler in my basement, I'd take your old electric water heater over $3.25/gallon #2 heating oil. However, I'm still going to build a pre-heat tank powered by SHW, before I install a tankless electric.

 

[SpaceBus]

Actually, with my brief research on it last night, it sounds much better than the Gross Metering system that went into effect in 2017.

You mentioned you have some air sealing to do, that's where I'd start focusing my attack for quick results. Air infiltration is like tossing coins out an open window in your predominantly heating climate these past few months. Have you asked around to see if anyone you know has access to a thermal infrared camera? Heating season is the best time to go hunting down thermal issues with a thermal camera. Map them out, and plan an attack for summer, working from largest to smallest issues.

Having heated my Maine hot water for showers for an entire summer using the oil fired boiler in my basement, I'd take your old electric water heater over $3.25/gallon #2 heating oil. However, I'm still going to build a pre-heat tank powered by SHW, before I install a tankless electric.

The current net metering in Maine doesn't help the consumer. Basically the power company buys it from you at the cheapest and makes you buy it from them when you need it most. You can only heat with solar for November and December here since the balance resets for January, then you are back to buying what you don't produce instead of using the surplus from the summer like most other places. It's not as bad as some places I guess.

We have considered electric tank less, but I haven't seen a lot of positive reviews. LP seems like a safe bet, but we shouldn't even use it anyway if the solar water heater works.

 

[Where2]

The current net metering in Maine doesn't help the consumer. Basically the power company buys it from you at the cheapest and makes you buy it from them when you need it most. You can only heat with solar for November and December here since the balance resets for January, then you are back to buying what you don't produce instead of using the surplus from the summer like most other places. It's not as bad as some places I guess.

I thought you weren't intending to rely 100% on electric as your primary heat source? If that's the case, then an air source heat pump for the shoulder seasons has a far higher coefficient of performance than straight electric resistance heat, and works in the shoulder seasons.

Randomly picking Machias, ME as being somewhat close to you. Choosing a 5kW array, on a fixed open mount, facing due south, with a 45 degree tilt, you could collect approximately 6,600kWh/yr. (acording to the NREL PVWatts calculator)
January=468kWh
February=531kWh
March=634kWh
April=648kWh
May=627kWh
June=603kWh
July=628kWh
August=663kWh
September=607kWh
October=490kWh
November=389kWh
December=380kWh

It may not make your power bill "go away", but it might be the solution you were looking for where your power bill is much more predictable from month to month. My 4.4kW array in South Florida didn't make my power bill go away, but my most expensive electric bill in the last 12 months was $80, in an all electric house where we run the A/C 10 months out of the year and use our electric dryer without hesitation. All my co-workers have multiple three figure electric bills each year. My array keeps me in the lowest price tier my power company offers. This month, my bill is predicted to be $48. When I get the additional 5.6kW pallet of panels (in my garage) racked and connected in the backyard, I'll have an $8/mo electric bill with rolling surplus credits.

The offer I received in my email today had 305W (60 cell) panels for $0.49/W, or 375W (72 cell) panels for $0.47/W. Yes, you need more than panels, but it's not as complicated as an off grid system.

 

[SpaceBus]

I thought you weren't intending to rely 100% on electric as your primary heat source? If that's the case, then an air source heat pump for the shoulder seasons has a far higher coefficient of performance than straight electric resistance heat, and works in the shoulder seasons.

Randomly picking Machias, ME as being somewhat close to you. Choosing a 5kW array, on a fixed open mount, facing due south, with a 45 degree tilt, you could collect approximately 6,600kWh/yr. (acording to the NREL PVWatts calculator)
January=468kWh
February=531kWh
March=634kWh
April=648kWh
May=627kWh
June=603kWh
July=628kWh
August=663kWh
September=607kWh
October=490kWh
November=389kWh
December=380kWh

It may not make your power bill "go away", but it might be the solution you were looking for where your power bill is much more predictable from month to month. My 4.4kW array in South Florida didn't make my power bill go away, but my most expensive electric bill in the last 12 months was $80, in an all electric house where we run the A/C 10 months out of the year and use our electric dryer without hesitation. All my co-workers have multiple three figure electric bills each year. My array keeps me in the lowest price tier my power company offers. This month, my bill is predicted to be $48. When I get the additional 5.6kW pallet of panels (in my garage) racked and connected in the backyard, I'll have an $8/mo electric bill with rolling surplus credits.

The offer I received in my email today had 305W (60 cell) panels for $0.49/W, or 375W (72 cell) panels for $0.47/W. Yes, you need more than panels, but it's not as complicated as an off grid system.

I rarely use electric for heat at all, I was just describing how the system doesn't work for most folks and benefits Emera the most.

 

[semipro]

If your water heater is that old, I would replace it ASAP with a new one of same type. Who knows what kind of crud buildup is on the inside & on the elements, and it is on way borrowed time as far as suddenly springing a leak. At likely the very worst time.

I believe a lot of electrical resistance tank water heaters end up in landfills unnecessarily. They are much easier to maintain and service than they are to replace. If they are cleaned out occasionally and a good sacrificial anode is maintained they will last a long time. I have one going on 30+ years and we have really soft water. I remove the lower heating element and drain valve every few years, clean out the minerals, and check the anode condition. The capacity decreases as the minerals build up in the bottom of the tank but the electrical efficiency is unaffected.

 

[wilsoncm1]

Have you looked at Sol-Ark inverters? There is a feature where you sell all the extra power not going to your critical loads panel back to the main panel. Also a smart load feature where you can turn extra juice into hot water. All without a silly net meter or your power company even knowing about it.

 

[peakbagger]

Have you looked at Sol-Ark inverters? There is a feature where you sell all the extra power not going to your critical loads panel back to the main panel. Also a smart load feature where you can turn extra juice into hot water. All without a silly net meter or your power company even knowing about it.

Sol Ark along with several other companies offer hybrid battery inverters. They can be legal but the statement about "your power company even knowing about it" is incorrect. If the system is connected to the utility it has to be legally interconnected with the grid and that means the utility must be notified and approve the interconnection and the means or interconnection which in most cases is UL 1741 (or 1741 SA) inverter. If they do not approve the interconnection then they have the right to disconnect the service. There are many fleabay type inverters and various websites that advertise plug and play inverters that do not need utility approval but they are illegal in the US and potentially hazardous to the homeowner. .

That said there is no issue if someone elects to run an isolated microgrid isolated from the power grid. That is perfectly legal and hybrid inverters do allow a lot of local load management by using the batteries to offset loads to times when there is generation, this is what every off grid system hopefully does . They even control diversion loads which can be a hot water heater. The only issue is if the system is capable of being automatically or manually connected to the grid. If this is the case it has to have grid approval and that means an interconnect agreement and approval. Once connected to the grid its up to the owner if they elect to sell back to the grid or heat hot water.

The fundamental problem is in the northern US solar generation is maximum in the summer and demand is usually maximum in the winter when there is far less generation. There currently is no commercial or economically viable way of storing excess power for months, when that changes it will radically change the power market.

 

[wilsoncm1]

Sol Ark along with several other companies offer hybrid battery inverters. They can be legal but the statement about "your power company even knowing about it" is incorrect. If the system is connected to the utility it has to be legally interconnected with the grid and that means the utility must be notified and approve the interconnection and the means or interconnection which in most cases is UL 1741 (or 1741 SA) inverter. If they do not approve the interconnection then they have the right to disconnect the service. There are many fleabay type inverters and various websites that advertise plug and play inverters that do not need utility approval but they are illegal in the US and potentially hazardous to the homeowner. .

That said there is no issue if someone elects to run an isolated microgrid isolated from the power grid. That is perfectly legal and hybrid inverters do allow a lot of local load management by using the batteries to offset loads to times when there is generation, this is what every off grid system hopefully does . They even control diversion loads which can be a hot water heater. The only issue is if the system is capable of being automatically or manually connected to the grid. If this is the case it has to have grid approval and that means an interconnect agreement and approval. Once connected to the grid its up to the owner if they elect to sell back to the grid or heat hot water.

The fundamental problem is in the northern US solar generation is maximum in the summer and demand is usually maximum in the winter when there is far less generation. There currently is no commercial or economically viable way of storing excess power for months, when that changes it will radically change the power market.

Interesting take. The 8K is UL1741 and UL1741SA compliant. That being said, if I setup my inverter to not sell to home, I'm not feeding the grid. Therefore I don't need to inform the utility. It would be no different than having a stand by genset with xfer gear. I wasn't required to tell Duke that I installed one.

 

[peakbagger]

I replied to clarify that in the case where your inverter was "selling" power to your main panel you needed to describe if the main panel was connected to the grid or if it wasn't. If your main panel is connected to the grid then yes you need an interconnect. If on the other hand that you are set up as a microgrid isolated from the grid I agree entirely, no need to get the utility involved. If on the other hand your hybrid inverter is connected to the grid and the only thing preventing it from it exporting to the grid is a software setting I expect you are in very fuzzy gray place with respect to the legality that varies by utility.

It comes down to system size. Most utilities have special "short form" interconnect rules for small generation like PV and usually default to a UL 1741 inverter. Usually the system size is capped at 10 KW or less so they don't have to go through a full interconnect process which requires a lot more steps and usually utility witness testing. The 1741 inverter does not deal with the economics, it deals with safety and its set up that unless the grid is functioning and within a tight set of specs the inverter can not export to the grid. This protects their system and the linesman working on it. The utility gets around the economics part most of the time by installing a one way meter that treats all power flow as a purchase. If you want to export power through the meter the utility will gladly let you export as much as you wish as it will all be treated as extra power your are buying. Most utilities are now installing dual channel meters that differentiate import versus export but unless its a legit install, even though they are metering export and import they just add it up and bill it as import. Happens all the time when folks have their PV systems legally turned on, they run a couple of billing cycles and see their power usage go up and usually it turns out that the billing department did not switch the billing software to net metering.

In the early days of grid tied PV systems the installer had to install a manual disconnect switch adjacent to the meter so that the utility could lock the system off as they didn't trust the 1741 inverters. I have one of them on my system. The utility sometimes put one of their locks on the disconnect until they witnessed the inverter being tested.

With respect to a generator with an automated transfer switch (ATS) generally the ATS is open before close, not close before open. If the ATS detects lack of grid, the transfer switch breaks the connection with the grid and then starts the generator and waits until the voltage and frequency is within a set range before the lights turn back on. Usually the system stays islanded until its manually switched back to the grid. When the manual transfer is done, the generator connection is opened and then the grid connection is closed. At no time is the generator directly connected to grid. If someone wants bumpless transfer between the grid and the generator so the lights don't flicker it gets lot more interesting and it definitely will need an interconnect permit. Of late we budget about $300,000 for the interconnect process on big generators. On those projects the utility requires the capability to remotely dump the generator off the grid using very expensive electronic boxes on dedicated phone circuits.

Note 1741SA is a recent addition to the 1741 standard and opens up new can of worms as it has the brains to do grid support. I think most utilities have these functions turned off but the capability is there for the inverter to ride through grid conditions that a regular 1741 inverter will disconnect. The utility could put in place a system to even tell the inverter to inject voltage and or VARS into the grid to stabilize it. Someone with a hybrid inverter and batteries may end up getting paid a premium to pump power into the grid in certain conditions.

 

[SpaceBus]

I replied to clarify that in the case where your inverter was "selling" power to your main panel you needed to describe if the main panel was connected to the grid or if it wasn't. If your main panel is connected to the grid then yes you need an interconnect. If on the other hand that you are set up as a microgrid isolated from the grid I agree entirely, no need to get the utility involved. If on the other hand your hybrid inverter is connected to the grid and the only thing preventing it from it exporting to the grid is a software setting I expect you are in very fuzzy gray place with respect to the legality that varies by utility.

It comes down to system size. Most utilities have special "short form" interconnect rules for small generation like PV and usually default to a UL 1741 inverter. Usually the system size is capped at 10 KW or less so they don't have to go through a full interconnect process which requires a lot more steps and usually utility witness testing. The 1741 inverter does not deal with the economics, it deals with safety and its set up that unless the grid is functioning and within a tight set of specs the inverter can not export to the grid. This protects their system and the linesman working on it. The utility gets around the economics part most of the time by installing a one way meter that treats all power flow as a purchase. If you want to export power through the meter the utility will gladly let you export as much as you wish as it will all be treated as extra power your are buying. Most utilities are now installing dual channel meters that differentiate import versus export but unless its a legit install, even though they are metering export and import they just add it up and bill it as import. Happens all the time when folks have their PV systems legally turned on, they run a couple of billing cycles and see their power usage go up and usually it turns out that the billing department did not switch the billing software to net metering.

In the early days of grid tied PV systems the installer had to install a manual disconnect switch adjacent to the meter so that the utility could lock the system off as they didn't trust the 1741 inverters. I have one of them on my system. The utility sometimes put one of their locks on the disconnect until they witnessed the inverter being tested.

With respect to a generator with an automated transfer switch (ATS) generally the ATS is open before close, not close before open. If the ATS detects lack of grid, the transfer switch breaks the connection with the grid and then starts the generator and waits until the voltage and frequency is within a set range before the lights turn back on. Usually the system stays islanded until its manually switched back to the grid. When the manual transfer is done, the generator connection is opened and then the grid connection is closed. At no time is the generator directly connected to grid. If someone wants bumpless transfer between the grid and the generator so the lights don't flicker it gets lot more interesting and it definitely will need an interconnect permit. Of late we budget about $300,000 for the interconnect process on big generators. On those projects the utility requires the capability to remotely dump the generator off the grid using very expensive electronic boxes on dedicated phone circuits.

Note 1741SA is a recent addition to the 1741 standard and opens up new can of worms as it has the brains to do grid support. I think most utilities have these functions turned off but the capability is there for the inverter to ride through grid conditions that a regular 1741 inverter will disconnect. The utility could put in place a system to even tell the inverter to inject voltage and or VARS into the grid to stabilize it. Someone with a hybrid inverter and batteries may end up getting paid a premium to pump power into the grid in certain conditions.

I am more educated with every post you write

 

[Ashful]

. If someone wants bumpless transfer between the grid and the generator so the lights don't flicker it gets lot more interesting and it definitely will need an interconnect permit.

Don’t most just use a UPS for this? Two past labs where I’ve worked have drawn all power thru big 3-phase UPS systems that cover the 30 seconds from loss of power until automatic generator is online.

 

[peakbagger]

As long as its behind the meter a UPS can give bump less transfer usually for a specific circuit. The difference is that when its a manufactured system the manufacturer has to go through some sort of third party certification that approximates an interconnect to prove the power can only go in one direction. I expect that is how the home battery folks are getting around an individualized interconnect process it also may be the approach used by hybrid inverters.

 

[begreen]

Don’t most just use a UPS for this? Two past labs where I’ve worked have drawn all power thru big 3-phase UPS systems that cover the 30 seconds from loss of power until automatic generator is online.

Some do, some don't. Our corporate offices in India had giant UPSs wired to essential systems. This was due to frequent power outages. Their office building in Seattle did not, probably due to the rarity of outages. I can only remember 2 outages in the 15 yrs at that office. The India office outages could be 2-3 times a week.

 

[georgepds]

Back when I was a kid , the local telephone exchange had three backups: two generators and a battery banks

 

[wilsoncm1]

I replied to clarify that in the case where your inverter was "selling" power to your main panel you needed to describe if the main panel was connected to the grid or if it wasn't. If your main panel is connected to the grid then yes you need an interconnect. If on the other hand that you are set up as a microgrid isolated from the grid I agree entirely, no need to get the utility involved. If on the other hand your hybrid inverter is connected to the grid and the only thing preventing it from it exporting to the grid is a software setting I expect you are in very fuzzy gray place with respect to the legality that varies by utility.

It comes down to system size. Most utilities have special "short form" interconnect rules for small generation like PV and usually default to a UL 1741 inverter. Usually the system size is capped at 10 KW or less so they don't have to go through a full interconnect process which requires a lot more steps and usually utility witness testing. The 1741 inverter does not deal with the economics, it deals with safety and its set up that unless the grid is functioning and within a tight set of specs the inverter can not export to the grid. This protects their system and the linesman working on it. The utility gets around the economics part most of the time by installing a one way meter that treats all power flow as a purchase. If you want to export power through the meter the utility will gladly let you export as much as you wish as it will all be treated as extra power your are buying. Most utilities are now installing dual channel meters that differentiate import versus export but unless its a legit install, even though they are metering export and import they just add it up and bill it as import. Happens all the time when folks have their PV systems legally turned on, they run a couple of billing cycles and see their power usage go up and usually it turns out that the billing department did not switch the billing software to net metering.

In the early days of grid tied PV systems the installer had to install a manual disconnect switch adjacent to the meter so that the utility could lock the system off as they didn't trust the 1741 inverters. I have one of them on my system. The utility sometimes put one of their locks on the disconnect until they witnessed the inverter being tested.

With respect to a generator with an automated transfer switch (ATS) generally the ATS is open before close, not close before open. If the ATS detects lack of grid, the transfer switch breaks the connection with the grid and then starts the generator and waits until the voltage and frequency is within a set range before the lights turn back on. Usually the system stays islanded until its manually switched back to the grid. When the manual transfer is done, the generator connection is opened and then the grid connection is closed. At no time is the generator directly connected to grid. If someone wants bumpless transfer between the grid and the generator so the lights don't flicker it gets lot more interesting and it definitely will need an interconnect permit. Of late we budget about $300,000 for the interconnect process on big generators. On those projects the utility requires the capability to remotely dump the generator off the grid using very expensive electronic boxes on dedicated phone circuits.

Note 1741SA is a recent addition to the 1741 standard and opens up new can of worms as it has the brains to do grid support. I think most utilities have these functions turned off but the capability is there for the inverter to ride through grid conditions that a regular 1741 inverter will disconnect. The utility could put in place a system to even tell the inverter to inject voltage and or VARS into the grid to stabilize it. Someone with a hybrid inverter and batteries may end up getting paid a premium to pump power into the grid in certain conditions.

That's all well and good, but it doesn't benefit me in any way to pay Duke the ~$500 for their permission to install a solar system and their net metering agreement. Their track record with net metering and small scale production is abysmal. They already tried to force us into a sell all/buy all agreement. Which basically forbids households from using their own power first. You are forced to sell all of your power to Duke at dirt cheap rates then buy it back at regular price. They already have some of the highest rates in the country. Nope. Thank You very much though!

 

[SpaceBus]

That's all well and good, but it doesn't benefit me in any way to pay Duke the ~$500 for their permission to install a solar system and their net metering agreement. Their track record with net metering and small scale production is abysmal. They already tried to force us into a sell all/buy all agreement. Which basically forbids households from using their own power first. You are forced to sell all of your power to Duke at dirt cheap rates then buy it back at regular price. They already have some of the highest rates in the country. Nope. Thank You very much though!

What I would give for Duke power rates now...

 

[sloeffle]

@peakbagger do you work in the power industry ? As @SpaceBus said, with every post you write I become more educated.

 

[SpaceBus]

I just signed an estimate for my new pole. It won't cost more than $2,500, about $500 less if they don't have to drill through ledge. The backhoe is on order and we are going to try and bury the line from the pole since the power is being disconnected anyway. Next step is to get in touch with an electrician and find out what conduit and cable we need.

 

[thewoodlands]

I just signed an estimate for my new pole. It won't cost more than $2,500, about $500 less if they don't have to drill through ledge. The backhoe is on order and we are going to try and bury the line from the pole since the power is being disconnected anyway. Next step is to get in touch with an electrician and find out what conduit and cable we need.

Don't break your bucket.

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[peakbagger]

@peakbagger do you work in the power industry ? As @SpaceBus said, with every post you write I become more educated.

Power industry is kind of broad, I got my start with the pulp and paper industry in a mill with a fairly large power system including 33 MW of hydro plus a couple of steam turbines doing mostly environmental and power projects then went "green" in VT with a company that did early microgrids and renewables until Wall Street ruined them, then went into biomass electric power plants including converting a coal fired power plant to biomass down in Space Bus's old backyard (Kenansville NC). It ran well but Duke pulled a fast one and blackmailed NC into paying them renewable power rates to build a gas fired power plant to shut down some pretty nasty coal plants so the biomass plant lost their power contract and of late been doing combined heat and power plants which are designed to be able to run off grid if need be. Along the way I learned to DIY PV grid tied systems early in the game before the federal rebate and rigged up my wood boiler system out of leftovers and a free used boiler (I did buy the AST storage tank new). I also have helped with some large power plant performance testing on occasion on plants like this one http://gorewaypowerstation.com/.

Somewhere in the biomass phase I was project manager for this hospital project not that far away from my home http://www.ensyn.com/heating-fuels.html I was not one of the folks in the picture cutting the ribbon as that was the "praise and honor for the non participants" phase .(broken link removed to http://wikibon.org/blog/this-project-management-joke-is-often-reality/). That was an interesting project as the company that made the project knew how to make it in a factory but had never done a permanent installation. There was no NFPA classification on the fuel as it was so new so we didn't have a official code or standard to work from and had to make things up as we went along. We lucked out that despite it being a replacement for heating oil it doesn't meet the legal definition of oil so it cut out a lot of paperwork. I think Bates college in Lewiston Maine uses it also but it hasn't caught on with oil so cheap and no carbon tax. Neat stuff, smells like a barbeque restaurant when they unload it even with vapor collection and activated carbon filters. its made with the same process that they make liquid smoke type flavoring agents with.

 

[SpaceBus]

Power industry is kind of broad, I got my start with the pulp and paper industry in a mill with a fairly large power system including 33 MW of hydro plus a couple of steam turbines doing mostly environmental and power projects then went "green" in VT with a company that did early microgrids and renewables until Wall Street ruined them, then went into biomass electric power plants including converting a coal fired power plant to biomass down in Space Bus's old backyard (Kenansville NC). It ran well but Duke pulled a fast one and blackmailed NC into paying them renewable power rates to build a gas fired power plant to shut down some pretty nasty coal plants so the biomass plant lost their power contract and of late been doing combined heat and power plants which are designed to be able to run off grid if need be. Along the way I learned to DIY PV grid tied systems early in the game before the federal rebate and rigged up my wood boiler system out of leftovers and a free used boiler (I did buy the AST storage tank new). I also have helped with some large power plant performance testing on occasion on plants like this one http://gorewaypowerstation.com/.

Somewhere in the biomass phase I was project manager for this hospital project not that far away from my home http://www.ensyn.com/heating-fuels.html I was not one of the folks in the picture cutting the ribbon as that was the "praise and honor for the non participants" phase .(broken link removed to http://wikibon.org/blog/this-project-management-joke-is-often-reality/). That was an interesting project as the company that made the project knew how to make it in a factory but had never done a permanent installation. There was no NFPA classification on the fuel as it was so new so we didn't have a official code or standard to work from and had to make things up as we went along. We lucked out that despite it being a replacement for heating oil it doesn't meet the legal definition of oil so it cut out a lot of paperwork. I think Bates college in Lewiston Maine uses it also but it hasn't caught on with oil so cheap and no carbon tax. Neat stuff, smells like a barbeque restaurant when they unload it even with vapor collection and activated carbon filters. its made with the same process that they make liquid smoke type flavoring agents with.

You forgot to mention the Mog! I had never heard of "renewable fuel oil" before, so I looked it up. RFO sounds like it comes from the same fractioning process that creates poly precursors from biomass. Is it really more efficient than simply burning dried wood? It sounds like you can get 75% of the weight of dried wood (I'm assuming 20% moisture or less) which would make the efficiency lower than using a gassification wood boiler. Perhaps the benefit is a liquid fuel instead of a solid fuel? Is it basically condensed wood gas? Sorry for all of the questions, I've just never encountered something like this before.

 

[SpaceBus]

nevermind, I found their video. This is really neat stuff!