Going off grid

[zrock]

Yeah, it's very old and can barely keep up with our small amount of usage. It's worse than we expected it to be. We planned on replacing it, but things have been slow this winter.

Ya i hear ya their... for me this year its been all expensive things that are breaking..

 

[SpaceBus]

So Emera just announced they are being bought by a Canadian energy company. This is making my choice even easier!

 

[begreen]

So Emera just announced they are being bought by a Canadian energy company. This is making my choice even easier!

Might be an improvement.

 

[SpaceBus]

Might be an improvement.

They've already raised prices.

 

[SpaceBus]

It's Gulland's methodology and thoughts that are worth reading. The specific hardware was not the reason for the post.

My plan is to do something similar with the hot water system, albeit with the help of a plumber and not with a DIY setup. On the Esse Ironheart the hot water coil is in castable refractory on the left side of the firebox. This replaces firebrick refractory.

 

[maple1]

I thought Emera was a Canadian energy company? Our provincial power company (N.S. Power) is an Emera company.

 

[SpaceBus]

I thought Emera was a Canadian energy company? Our provincial power company (N.S. Power) is an Emera company.

I don't know a whole lot about the deal. From what I understand Emera Maine was an American owned company, at least that's what the Bangor Daily News seemed to say. I'll have to look into it more, I'm learning a lot about this place. I've lived in a lot of places from being in an army family and then joining the army, but new England is weird. Weirder than actual England.

 

[SpaceBus]

I thought Emera was a Canadian energy company? Our provincial power company (N.S. Power) is an Emera company.

You are correct, it was owned by a different energy company. The power company situation here is really different than anything I've experienced.

 

[peakbagger]

I expect if you track the history back, power was only run to the area due to rural electrification funds. Pretty much anywhere east of Bangor but particularly Washington County has been a very depressed area with the exception of a narrow strip along the coast and the area around the old Woodland Mill. The government subsidized the installation of the systems long ago but no longer. Its expensive to keep up the infrastructure and how the utilities stay around is they are guaranteed a profit on what fundamentally is an unprofitable business. The phone company is in the same situation and in some areas they are getting waivers so they can walk away from local phone service. About the only value to a electric utility owning the rights in these rural areas is the hope that they can host transmission lines from outside the region to Southern New England. PSNH (Eversource) tried to pull it off and CMP (also foreignowned) is trying it.

The Emera sale doesnt look great, Emera is selling their low profit units and the company buying it doesn't have a lot of operations in the East and they will have a steep learning curve. Given the current situation I wouldn't be surprised that the order have come down to the managers not to spend a dime to improve the distribution system until the sale is complete and expect that is partially why you are getting stonewalled on figuring out who is responsible for the service. About the only thing that works in this situation is litigation as normally prior to final closing of transaction both parties want the litigation to be resolved. Otherwise the prior owner just stalls until it not their problem.

 

[SpaceBus]

I expect if you track the history back, power was only run to the area due to rural electrification funds. Pretty much anywhere east of Bangor but particularly Washington County has been a very depressed area with the exception of a narrow strip along the coast and the area around the old Woodland Mill. The government subsidized the installation of the systems long ago but no longer. Its expensive to keep up the infrastructure and how the utilities stay around is they are guaranteed a profit on what fundamentally is an unprofitable business. The phone company is in the same situation and in some areas they are getting waivers so they can walk away from local phone service. About the only value to a electric utility owning the rights in these rural areas is the hope that they can host transmission lines from outside the region to Southern New England. PSNH (Eversource) tried to pull it off and CMP (also foreignowned) is trying it.

The Emera sale doesnt look great, Emera is selling their low profit units and the company buying it doesn't have a lot of operations in the East and they will have a steep learning curve. Given the current situation I wouldn't be surprised that the order have come down to the managers not to spend a dime to improve the distribution system until the sale is complete and expect that is partially why you are getting stonewalled on figuring out who is responsible for the service. About the only thing that works in this situation is litigation as normally prior to final closing of transaction both parties want the litigation to be resolved. Otherwise the prior owner just stalls until it not their problem.

Yeah, I'm not thrilled about it. Off grid makes more sense every day I wake up

Honestly, even with propane prices, going off grid shouldn't cost much more than my current setup.

 

[Ashful]

... going off grid shouldn't cost much more than my current setup.

Here’s what I don’t get. You’re basically saying, “I don’t mind the enormous inconvenience of going off-grid, since it’s only costing me a little more than having energy delivered in a more convenient fashion.” What am I missing?

 

[SpaceBus]

Here’s what I don’t get. You’re basically saying, “I don’t mind the enormous inconvenience of going off-grid, since it’s only costing me a little more than having energy delivered in a more convenient fashion.” What am I missing?

Well, I'll stay grid connected until the poles collapse I guess. First off I'm basically in a forced relationship with soon to no longer be named Emera. Their rates suck, their customer service is abysmal, frequent and long outages, and they get to do whatever they want. This area is also not likely to ever grow, so even less incentive for the utility company to maintain this stuff. Yeah, I am giving up a few conveniences, but I also will be primarily energy independent. We will use some propane if we go off grid, but it shouldn't be much and it's a backup and cooking fuel in the summer.

 

[Brian26]

What about resale value? Your average buyer is going to most likely just walk away when they hear there is no grid electric service. I have heard tons of stories of owners off grid properties spending like 30k to install poles/lines just to sell the place.

 

[SpaceBus]

What about resale value? Your average buyer is going to most likely just walk away when they hear there is no grid electric service. I have heard tons of stories of owners off grid properties spending like 30k to install poles/lines just to sell the place.

Resale is a non issue, this is where we intend to live until that is not possible. There will be poles within a few hundred feet of the house due to the neighbor up the easement road, so it shouldn't be $30k to reconnect in the future. I'd like to stay grid connected for this reason, but otherwise there is no incentive to do so. We actually passed on many land properties for sale due to the distance from any improved road, no well, septic, electricity, etc. We just aren't in the physical condition to do those things. If I weren't medically retired/disabled, we would have bought land and started from scratch off grid. Since I am this way and my wife has medical problems as well, we did the next best thing. I didn't plan on the power company saying they wouldn't do anything and it's all on me to maintain/replace/remediate this pole. Perhaps the planner, who is yet to contact me, could rectify or assist the situation, but not likely with the company changing ownership. It really seems like the right time to be done with Emera.

 

[maple1]

Have you gotten an estimate to have the pole replaced yet? If the power company doesn't look after them, someone privately must be doing it?

I think by the time I added up those costs, and fully pencilled out the costs of going off grid (I have no idea but from loose talk I've heard I'd guess 30k range?), I would be hard pressed to cut the cord so to speak.

(To each their own though, of course...)

 

[SpaceBus]

Have you gotten an estimate to have the pole replaced yet? If the power company doesn't look after them, someone privately must be doing it?

I think by the time I added up those costs, and fully pencilled out the costs of going off grid (I have no idea but from loose talk I've heard I'd guess 30k range?), I would be hard pressed to cut the cord so to speak.

(To each their own though, of course...)

A rough quote from a local off grid solar installer was less than $15k, so not terrible. I'm about to call a pole contractor.

 

[SpaceBus]

I spoke to the planner from Emera and he said they won't install a pole unless we grant them an easement, that's not going to fly. I tried to call a pole contractor, but they aren't answering.

 

[SpaceBus]

Got in touch with the pole contractor. He said it's probably going to be $1500 minimum, much more if I need a cedar pole. They have to drill though ledge and it will get considerably more expensive if they need to place new anchor bolts. Thankfully I don't have to replace the other two poles. The planner clarified that those only have phone lines on them and spectrum or whoever will move them eventually. The new poles have my power lines and the lines going to my north neighbor up the dirt road. I do not own the transformer, just the pole. I think burying the lines from the pole is out of the question with the ledge. The planner said it would be pretty difficult to bury the line as well.

Unfortunately the pole contractor can't even come look at our place for over two weeks, about the same for the solar contractor. At $1,500 the math says it's cheaper to stay with the electric company, but not by much.

 

[maple1]

I spoke to the planner from Emera and he said they won't install a pole unless we grant them an easement, that's not going to fly. I tried to call a pole contractor, but they aren't answering.

Does that mean that if you grant them an easement - they will install a pole?

Is there a cost for that? If so how much?

I wouldn't have any issues at all granting an easement if it would get me a pole. Easements can be worded to only allow what you want them to and can be confined to conditions of usage. And can also spell out conditions for release/abandonment.

 

[maple1]

A rough quote from a local off grid solar installer was less than $15k, so not terrible. I'm about to call a pole contractor.

That sounds way cheap just based on what I know. Or think I do. Batteries would be a huge expense, aside from the rest of the stuff that could run $2-3/watt. We use on average maybe 20kwh/day, and I think we would need a 8000 watt system. Local incentives may play a part.

 

[Ashful]

I spoke to the planner from Emera and he said they won't install a pole unless we grant them an easement, that's not going to fly. I tried to call a pole contractor, but they aren't answering.

I don’t understand. Of course they can’t place their poles on your property without an easement, but what is your issue with this? It is not a big deal. I have given and received easements before, it simply gives them the right to access that part of your property to install and maintain the equipment servicing your house. They likely have a boiler plate version you can use, or make it a starting point for your own. This is not a big deal.

 

[SpaceBus]

I don’t understand. Of course they can’t place their poles on your property without an easement, but what is your issue with this? It is not a big deal. I have given and received easements before, it simply gives them the right to access that part of your property to install and maintain the equipment servicing your house. They likely have a boiler plate version you can use, or make it a starting point for your own. This is not a big deal.

My wife doesn't like or want an easement, and I'm not fond of them either.

 

[SpaceBus]

Basically instead of setting up an easement and shouldering the burden of installing poles, Emera will let the customer have a private pole which then can be insured by Emera.

 

[Ashful]

Yeah, I can understand your apprehension on the easement, it sounded like a compromise I didn’t want to make, the first time I had to deal with one. But they have never caused me any issue, particularly for utilities, and in fact there are likely already easements along your frontage for poles or buried utilities that service your road.

If you can pay your own way, and you’re more comfortable with that than an easement, I guess that’s a way you can go. But then isn’t the burden of all line maintenance on you?

 

[maple1]

Basically instead of setting up an easement and shouldering the burden of installing poles, Emera will let the customer have a private pole which then can be insured by Emera.

But the thing is, granting an easement will or should also lock them into maintaining the lines & poles for as long as they are there. Generally speaking, in all I have seen & experienced with them, easements are a beneficial thing.