Garn 2000 for house and shop

[Highbeam]

Sounds like typical high iron content in your well water. It’s clear until it hits oxygen and then it oxidizes into particles that can be filtered or will settle out. You probably have orange toilet tanks too! It’s easy to remove iron so that you don’t have it in your home or your boiler. My wife hated the orange stains in the dishwasher, toilets, and even light colored clothing.

 

[eauzonedan]

Unfortunate but not that simple .... no staining of fixtures laundry etc. or other indications. Mike says it’s definitely iron but it is bound with other things in the well water. Way back when I did the well I tested for free iron and nothing showed up. If I wanted to spend a bunch of diagnostic dollars it could be better identified. Bottom line is it prefers to bond with his cocktail better than whatever else is available and precipitates out as the flock in the tank. Knowing the full chemistry would be nice but not sure the juice would be worth the squeeze. Pia to get it out after a full drain and refill but once removed it’s fine and tank is gin clear till any top up with the well water. As long there is available chemical and the top up is minor it’s back to clear with a filter change or two. Plan B would be to truck water in but the process a lot of local municipalities use to treat water in this area would create different and even worse problems. Points out why Garn is so persistent on the water quality. Unfortunate that no two areas have the same exact issues. Dan

 

[hedge wood]

Dan
Sounds like you well is like mind not good. In the past I hauled my water in but have since lost that source so after the the repair last year I had to use my own well. I filtered it going into the Garn and worked with Mike on the cocktail to work with what I have. When I first got back up and going I was changing my filter every two weeks. Then went to a month then two. The water is clear and test good now per Mike. I am going for three months on this change and see how the filter looks. I built my own cover out of stainless with a good seal years ago and that helps a bunch on water loss. Now that I am semi retired and can feed the Garn more times with wood I am not firing as high temp as I used to and that helps on water loss also.

 

[hedge wood]

Grigg
Did you get the Garn up and making heat? It was 70 degrees here yesterday and is heading down in the upper 30's today and 40's all week here. My Garn is doing a nice job keeping me and my domestic water wartm this A.M. Have a good Easter.

 

[Grigg]

Thanks for asking, I've been meaning to give an update.

From earlier discussion we have 5'-8" room between name tag on Garn door and opposite wall, feels like ample working room.

Mostly enclosed in 5/8" drywall now. The top has drywall over the joist then 3/4" AdvanTech for a floor. Need to finish back side access panels.
Front is almost done, sturdy 5/8" drywall reinforced with fiberglass mesh then 1/16" Formica sheet over that. Plan is to use T-nuts in the drywall to attach to the Garn flange and attach the removable Formica covers and trim pieces to the drywall. The outside edges will get some sort of metal trim to hold the Formica and drywall down.

Covering the front has taken a LOT of time and effort to do nicely and be removable. A drawing, template, or plan/instructions from Garn on enclosing the front would have been much appreciated, everyone that buys a Garn shouldn't need to figure out this puzzle over and over again.

Week before last we got it up to 180 degrees for the first time. Initial fill was about 1" over recommended level so as expected it overflowed. It's now back down to about 100 degrees and 1/2" lower than suggested max fill level.
The insulation above the manway was quite wet from escaping moisture. When installing it I couldn't understood how a piece of Teflon sheet would seal to the not quite flat and smooth manway flange, and it doesn't. Doubtful that a 10 lb weight (recommended) would help much either, and is that 10 lb per half lid or only 5 lb each?
I ordered and installed some rubber trim part number 8693K25 from Mcmaster Carr, pictured below. I'll find out if that helps next week.

The Garn is connected and warming the new concrete floor when called for.
Connected to the upstairs coil in the air handler, waiting to finish wiring and duct work but the heat part is ready.
Modine Hot Dawg heater for the shop is here and ready to hang and finish plumbing tomorrow.
Triangle Tube Smart 60 hot water heater almost finished installing in the basement for house.

Decided on US Boiler Baseray baseboard radiators for the house, they'll be here within two weeks.
Already have the PEX lines run in the basement for them and should install the manifold tomorrow. Manifold like you would use for radiant floor with each Baseray unit on a loop, some rooms will have two units/loops. Should be easy to adjust flow and balance room temperatures higher or cooler (bedroom) than the average without complication of separate thermostats and pumps or automated valves.

Some possibly helpful tidbits:

The water level assembly I used is McMaster Carr part number 1142K31 https://www.mcmaster.com/catalog/126/604/ Also 3/4" nipple and a 1/2" to 3/4" reducing coupling
Made by LDI industries as a vented oil gauge I believe their part number G265-4 http://www.ldi-industries.com/LDI-F...on-Equipment/Vented-Oil-Gages/G260_Series.pdf
It's perfect height as water is right at the top of the sight window when overflowing. You could use a shorter one with some offset plumbing as working range is the upper half or so of the nominally 12" tall gauge.

Garn does not supply a grommet for the top left of control box to run the flue temperature sensor through. Try Mcmaster Carr part number 9600K521 and punch your own hole to fit thermocouple wire then slit it to the edge for installing over the wire. You could punch more holes if you had more wires emerging there. https://www.mcmaster.com/catalog/126/4029

 

[hedge wood]

Grigg
Looks like things are coming right along. I haven't been around there new split man way cover but it only took a couple weeks of running back in 2009 before I built a new man way cover out of heavy stainless with a gasket. Haven't had any moisture leaking out of the man way area since. I did insulate the new cover with foam. I do like your sight glass for the water level. We had a fair amount of those on gear boxes on cooling tower's at work to keep a eye on the oil level. Installing one of these Garn's is a big job you will get it finished up one of these days.

 

[jesweli]

I know of two other Garns in our county, one I've seen and one I haven't. You're not that far away, do you have one as well?

Yes, it is sitting on Dow Thermax Polyisocyanurate Insulation which has a compressive strength of 25 psi. The boiler full of water and given the runner area only applies 8.3 psi, so although it seems counter intuitive the foam is more than adequate to support the weight.

Grigg

I too think the same.

 

[SpaceBus]

Sounds like typical high iron content in your well water. It’s clear until it hits oxygen and then it oxidizes into particles that can be filtered or will settle out. You probably have orange toilet tanks too! It’s easy to remove iron so that you don’t have it in your home or your boiler. My wife hated the orange stains in the dishwasher, toilets, and even light colored clothing.

How do you do it? I have a three stage filter and still some makes it through.

 

[Highbeam]

How do you do it? I have a three stage filter and still some makes it through.

Manganese oxide. Goes by several brand names including mang-ox or what I’m currently running at home, pro-ox from cleanwaterstore.com. It’s an actual media iron filter that backwashes, not a cartridge. It’s 9” diameter, 48” tall and backwashes the collected iron once per week.

At work I was the pm for the installation of a giant Manganese oxide filter using the same principle but that thing was twice the size of a cargo van and over a half million bucks!

The media has a 10 year life expectancy and is the way you remove iron and manganese from water.

 

[ameliaami]

Grigg
Did you get the Garn up and making heat? It was 70 degrees here yesterday and is heading down in the upper 30's today and 40's all week here. My Garn is doing a nice job keeping me and my domestic water wartm this A.M. Have a good Easter.

Great job.. Keep it up....

 

[Grigg]

We haven't fired the Garn yet this season but I did send out a water sample yesterday. I expect we'll have it running week after this.
We've got the wood shed already half full of slab wood from my Dad's sawmill and getting ready to cut and split two dump truck loads of long wood. That should fill the woodshed, about 10 cords, and we'll start using it next year, time will tell how long that much last, I hope about 1.5 years use.
This year we have some dry from previous years and will borrow some from my folks. Construction schedule for the addition didn't fit well with wood cutting to get ahead like I intended.

Starting to get excited about being warm and cozy this winter.

 

[hedge wood]

Grigg I got behind this year with getting my wood ready to. Been trying to get some health issues straighten around. We finally got some hedge done before we started fall harvest. I run my Garn year around for domestic water. Temps been dipping down in the 30's and now the 20's so I been running a full load a day in the Garn the last 10 days or so. I guess winter is getting here like it or not. Still have field work, dirt work and would like to get some more wood cut before winter really gets here. Hope all is well with your Garn on start up.

 

[Woodfarmer1]

Well I got 5 years out of my Garn before the bottom rotted out

 

[SpaceBus]

Five years seems like a short amount of time for such an expensive boiler. I doubt it would pay for itself in that amount of time.

 

[Woodfarmer1]

Yes, just put $2200 into it so it better last another 5

 

[salecker]

Well I got 5 years out of my Garn before the bottom rotted out

That seems totaly out of the norm for a Garn
I would not settle for that issue.
You need to find out what is happening. I remember a few years ago there was a 25? or so year old Garn the had been in a building that burnt,The Garn was cleaned up and put back to use because it was in great shape.The fellow that posted it said he saw lots of aged Garns in prime shape.

 

[Woodfarmer1]

Mine went into service before the filter system was recommended, lots of crud on the bottom. Water always tested good and the proper chemicals always used.

 

[Grigg]

That is odd, 5 years is not very long.

Part of the instructions now is to check the bottom for sediment several times every year and clean if necessary. They even explain how to remove the water, (inexpensive swimming pool) clean, and refill with same water if required.
Did you check for stuff on the bottom of the tank and remove it as needed? Was that in the manual at the time?

 

[Grigg]

Update on our new Garn now that it's been running for a little more than a month this season.

During construction a year ago we had it running without being fully installed, insulated, or plumbed, about 34 hours run time then.
Now we're up to 78 hours total run time averaging about 2.5 hours per burn, some just under 2 hours and some nearly 4 if reloading mid way.

So far only firing it every second evening even with the coldest days we've had thus far, and every several days when it's not cold at night. Probably used 3/4 cord of wood with half that 2x scraps from the construction and the rest good dry hardwood firewood.

All the different circuits and pumps are doing there thing, radiators, radiant floor, fan coil, and a unit heater. Domestic hot water is now only from the Garn, we turned off and bypassed the gas hot water heater until spring.

Getting a feel for how much wood gives what temp rise, and also what size pile of coals will give how much temp helps decide to add more wood or not. So far I've only overshot 180* by a couple. Building a new fire somewhere between 110 and 140* tank temp depending on the weather. Someone had suggested weighing the wood and making up a chart but I haven't tried that yet, just by eyeball is working so far.

I've reduced the chugging tendency by standing a fire brick on edge a few inches in front of the lower air blast in the fire box. When it's down to a bed of coals I move it aside and that helps clean up more of the coals.

Starting a fire is exceptionally easy, a couple pieces of newspaper or junk mail is really all it needs because of the charcoal left in the pile of ashes from the previous fire. No kindling needed.
We have horizontal flue but elected to still use an inlet air damper, I thought it might help keep more heat in between burns.
I light the paper and close the door, then press start which takes about 30 seconds to open the damper before the blower comes on and it's off and going, no failed starts yet.

I wonder if I am loosing heat out the exhaust between burns because the exhaust temp probe is 10-15 degrees lower than tank temperature?

Grigg

 

[TCaldwell]

It’s also lower on the tank

 

[Grigg]

Good point, I'll also check my supply and return temperatures for comparison next time.
I can also cover up the exhaust pipe and see what difference that makes.

 

[hedge wood]

Grigg Good to hear all is good with the Garn. So far our weather has been pretty mild. I am running a full load a day threw mine. Weather changed yesterday and snow last night and now down in the teens at night for the next week. Will probably be running two loads a day next week.

 

[jebatty]

Grigg, you (and others) can a little bit of fun calculating the btu input to your Garn (or other boiler, furnace, stove). Based on the assumptions of 400F flue temperature and wood at 20% moisture content, one pound of wood has about 6050 available btus. Species of wood has little impact on the energy contained in wood. In other words, one pound of oak has about the same energy as one pound of any other wood. A 100 lb load would have 65,000 btus of input energy.

You might want to weigh out a 50 lb and a 100 lb load to get a visual estimate of the wood energy you are loading into your Garn.

 

[Grigg]

Figured time for an update.
About a month into our third full season season with the Garn WHS 2000. Used a little bit during construction winter of 2019/20

I installed an hour meter that counts when the blower motor is on.
So far 752 hours of use from new.
This season started 9-30-22 and 2 months later we've had 24 burns totaling 64 hours. Some of those were same day, missed refilling before the fire went out.

Generally I still run it up to 180° on cold nights though only a few times so far this year, mostly stopping at 165 or 170° even lower earlier in the season with milder temps.
Staring another fire around 110-120, sometimes 130° if it's shower time. Not real sure yet how low a tank temperature gives unsatisfactory domestic hot water (gas water heater bypassed), but somewhere in that range.
Initially I was filling the fire box full, usually two lengths end to end, and piled as high as I could (as needed given water temp).
Now I've been doing only one length of wood and stacked as high as I can but keeping it on the fire bricks, not resting on the steel sides, refill part way through as needed. Seems the later approach might aid in the stove lasting longer

I've been sending out water samples twice a year and have added a few chemicals as recommended from that. Replaced a few filters too when pressure before filter climbs, bypass filter running all the time.
End of first season I topped off the tank as advised in the manual, which most likely lead to poor water quality at the following test and necessity of chemicals. Then that same water, now well treated, gets pushed out the overflow with the following season's first burn, seems wasteful. Long and interesting conversation with Mike at Precision Chem. He recommended not toping off to point of overflow at end of season.
Water has looked clean when I open the cover to see, and no sediment or issues. However I don't feel like I can see everything everywhere on the bottom, having been in there and looked around, very sure I can't see it all from the top. Then what I can see can I really see enough detail? How reliable and useful is looking in the top for catching issues early enough before they're really an issue?

I've brushed the flue and pipes twice now, just did it. Someone suggested make your own carbon scraper from some sheet metal or metal lumber strapping material bent in a U and fixed to the cleaning rod run in a drill. I did that and also used the bristle brushes sold by Garn (that fit kind of loose). The home made thing is worthwhile, much better than brushing alone.

Have spare insulation, bricks, secondary burn chamber, and gaskets on hand, also a blower motor. So far only used two gaskets. The blower and adjacent cover gaskets seemed pretty well used and one was coming apart when I was brushing pipes last week.
Thinking of replacing the thin side bricks and pads, one or two have cracked but seem sound still. What's the expected life or indications when best to replace bricks?

This is first season we've had all good hardwood and all here in the shed. Hope to get a sense of how much wood we use in a year. Guessing that we have 2.5 years in the shed when full, fingers crossed. We're heating about 1,200 sq ft of house to about 68° and almost 6,000 of shop and garage a little cooler.
Picture is the shed and what we've used from the left side in the first two months. Missing only that little dip in the middle from being full at start of this season.
Next time I'll cut the wood shorter and get three solid rows in a little fuller and easier than I've done two (sometimes three) rows so far.

Overall pretty pleased with the Garn. We've stayed much more cozy than in the past with one traditional inside woodstove.

 

[hedge wood]

Grigg Good to hear ever thing with the Garn is good. Hope the guy that welded mind when built, was long gone before yours was built. I open the door to my Garn barn very slowly ever time I go to reload and hope water not running out on the floor again. Made it past the year mark of the last leak. I hoping for a good winter with no leaks. Have a good holiday season.