brenndatomu
Minister of Fire
Nope, that's just where I would start with it. Set the baro any higher and the fire could maybe end up getting too hot...you'll need to experiment with it to see how things behave...
Fire Chief or Shelter EPA stoves feedback
- Thread starter Mrpelletburner
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brenndatomu
Minister of Fire
Set your gap to 1/2"...see how it does with that...even that still seems like a pretty minimal intake hole to me.
Just spitballin here...I wonder if forcing the air to go more to the secondary tube would help...I'd plug the top 5 holes in the air intake...the ones on the right side of the door. Could probably shove a short 3/8" to 1/2" bolt in the holes just to block the majority of the air.
That may be enough to change the ratio a bit...more to the top, where it needs to be to maintain secondary combustion after the blower shuts off...all those holes and slots on the right there seem like too much primary air to me.
And with how restrictive the gap is on the blower, that doesn't leave much volume, so those primary holes are just the path of least resistance, nothing left to make it up top...
Just spitballin here...I wonder if forcing the air to go more to the secondary tube would help...I'd plug the top 5 holes in the air intake...the ones on the right side of the door. Could probably shove a short 3/8" to 1/2" bolt in the holes just to block the majority of the air.
That may be enough to change the ratio a bit...more to the top, where it needs to be to maintain secondary combustion after the blower shuts off...all those holes and slots on the right there seem like too much primary air to me.
And with how restrictive the gap is on the blower, that doesn't leave much volume, so those primary holes are just the path of least resistance, nothing left to make it up top...
brenndatomu
Minister of Fire
brenndatomu
Minister of Fire
There ya go, learn your machine!
That's what seems strange to me...that both primary and secondary air share one air intake...don't know as I've seen that done before...and why I suggested to try plugging the round primary holes...in my unprofessional opinion, way to much primary air...and can't adjust primary/secondary air separately.
The Tundra has a 1.5" x 1.5" secondary air intake, that is a lot bigger hole than what you have with a 3/8" crescent shaped intake.
And Tundra has 2 of those intakes!...and a 3/4" hole for primary pilot air...and when the damper opens up, there is whole ton more primary air holes that are exposed!
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brenndatomu
Minister of Fire
That is it... CANNOT take anymore!! If I would of went to be before this happened, might not be here tomorrow!
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brenndatomu
Minister of Fire
Holy crap!This stove just blew the biometric damper off across the room... video to followView attachment 224343View attachment 224344
Like @maple1 has been saying for a while now...I'd be playing hardball with those ya-hoos at HY-C...these things (or at least this one) are a menace to society...wouldn't be too hard to get one of those shark type lawyers to take a case like this...especially with the documentation you have
maple1
Minister of Fire
Still haven't seen an answer to 'have you sent them a link to this thread?'.
With all your videos, you shouldn't have much problem to get them to do what you want - I would be pounding them for at least a full refund. Plus any other expenses incurred. IMO they should be recalling these things. If they don't refund, time to lawyer up - tell them you'll give them a chance to make this right before you have to resort to that. And send them this thread.
Failed Design 101.
(That baro cannon vid is pretty darned impressive. For the wrong reasons, but still impressive.
)
With all your videos, you shouldn't have much problem to get them to do what you want - I would be pounding them for at least a full refund. Plus any other expenses incurred. IMO they should be recalling these things. If they don't refund, time to lawyer up - tell them you'll give them a chance to make this right before you have to resort to that. And send them this thread.
Failed Design 101.
(That baro cannon vid is pretty darned impressive. For the wrong reasons, but still impressive.
)
Yes. Yesterday I contacted them again and was able to get an email address to I could send links of my YouTube channel, highlighting the latest videos and this tread.
I am not sure how many stoves they have sold, but I am sure anyone in the market might change their mind after reading this thread.
Don't know how many have been sold, but there is more exposure through Menards and Mills Fleet Farm (and others) than there was for the Tundra. Both these outfits stock this unit be it the Fire Chief or Shelter version.
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JRHAWK9
Minister of Fire
might?!!?
....and for anybody at Hy-C who may be reading this thread. Maybe you guys should stick to making juice flavored drinks. Seriously, "Made in the US" is supposed to be synonymous with quality. What you guys have released to the buying public is wrong and flat out dangerous.
I am going to say that the person I have chatted with at HY-C has been amazing, believe that is the only reason why I continue. We know it is a primary air supply issue. Also, the rear of the stove is only about 6" away from the concrete wall, which is drawing cooler air into the stove and cooling it down faster. So I am going to add a fresh air supply to the draft blower (easy enough to install). Also thinking of rotating the stove counter clockwise 90 degrees; hope to pull in warmer air.
maple1
Minister of Fire
That all sounds like more tail chasing kind of stuff to me. The wall or cooler/warmer intake air should have no impact on anything. A fresh air supply will make it even cooler. Hogwash, I say.
Also I likely would not call it a primary air issue. I would say both primary & secondary have problems. With roots in the design.
Also I likely would not call it a primary air issue. I would say both primary & secondary have problems. With roots in the design.
Last night, wanted to top off the stove for the night. Stove already reached max temperature and temperature was slowly dropping.
Question for folks that own other stoves. If you open the door at the wrong dime during the burn cycle, will the following happen to you?
Question for folks that own other stoves. If you open the door at the wrong dime during the burn cycle, will the following happen to you?
brenndatomu
Minister of Fire
Most definitely a possibility...better than a 50/50 chance IMO. And with the issues you've been having with that unit...you have a much higher chance than that I'd say.
Turd Ferguson
New Member
I've been a little dormant thus far, mostly due to other irons in the fire (pun intended). Anyways, I spoke with Ted at Hy-C a few days ago and he mentioned that, so long as I was careful, to remove the rivet and report back with my findings. Note that this is not carte blanche for anyone to drill out their rivets; I only did this after seeking approval from them and of course it would void anyone's warranty without first receiving authorization from them to do so.
So far, I'm still very much in the data collection process. I don't necessarily want to render an opinion one way or another without collecting further data and thinking about it in the grand scheme. So far, it's been a real challenge, but nowhere near what @Mrpelletburner has been experiencing.
So far, I'm still very much in the data collection process. I don't necessarily want to render an opinion one way or another without collecting further data and thinking about it in the grand scheme. So far, it's been a real challenge, but nowhere near what @Mrpelletburner has been experiencing.
JRHAWK9
Minister of Fire
I've NEVER had anything like that mini explosion happen!
IMO, that's again, a result of fuel being backed up and when you added O2 it abruptly ignited when it reached the correct mixture. I've opened the door numerous times over the years and on occasion I've had the flame ball exit the door opening a bit, but never a mini-explosion like you had there.
Man, I wouldn't want my face anywhere near there when that happens! I sometimes get real close to the opening and then I quickly open the door in order to catch a glimpse of the nice blue fireball inside. Definitely wouldn't want to be doing that with your furnace!
woodey
Feeling the Heat
I also had this happening to me with my old furnace. At first I blamed it on draft issues with the chimney- which I thought odd as the chimney is a 40 ft. masonry block with 7x11 liner and is a warm chimney as it exits thru center of house and thru peak of roof, strong draft. Every time I opened the door to clean out the ashes or put wood on I ran a fan from the basement to garage to get rid of some smoke.(And would have to open the door slowly or put my foot in front of it for fear of losing my eyebrows) Took a while to realize that the problem was not the chimney it was a design issue with the stove. The damper on this unit for primary air was either fully open or completely shut.(sound familiar) The damper on my new furnace has two 1/2 " holes allowing primary air in even when the damper is closed. Now there is no " wrong time" during the burn cycle to open the door, fully loaded or at the end of the burn. I have never had a problem with any smoke exiting this furnace. Sounds like we have had similar issues which kinda confirms to me what other members (with a heck of a lot more knowledge than I have) have been saying about your stove starving for air. Hang in there and best of luck to you
!
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More back flashing today during the burn cycle.
Loaded the stove at 7:45am today, stove was running great until this point. Started to back flash several times between 9:22am to 9:30am. After the back flashing, the temperature started to rise again.
- Draft blow was running the whole time.
- Stove already reached max burn temperature and was falling, believe this happened when the stove was at it's lowest temperature point ~550 on the front surface.
- Inner flue temperature read ~200 degrees
Now the house smells like smoke again and I have another headache from the smoke. Doors opened to get air into the house, fun never ends.
Loaded the stove at 7:45am today, stove was running great until this point.
![[Hearth.com] Fire Chief or Shelter EPA stoves feedback](https://www.hearth.com/talk/attachments/cqh2km78sf-ochx3cz4fua-webp.224413/ "[Hearth.com] Fire Chief or Shelter EPA stoves feedback")
Loaded the stove at 7:45am today, stove was running great until this point. Started to back flash several times between 9:22am to 9:30am. After the back flashing, the temperature started to rise again.
- Draft blow was running the whole time.
- Stove already reached max burn temperature and was falling, believe this happened when the stove was at it's lowest temperature point ~550 on the front surface.
- Inner flue temperature read ~200 degrees
Now the house smells like smoke again and I have another headache from the smoke. Doors opened to get air into the house, fun never ends.
Loaded the stove at 7:45am today, stove was running great until this point.
One really neat feature of the Nest camera system is being able to create a time lapse video. This video is from 7:40am today till about 10:50am. Around the 1:04 marker is when the stove started to flash back several times. This will give everyone a good idea of the temperature rising and falling during the burn cycle.
Wood1Dennis
Burning Hunk
Just a thought about this stove.....
I am really surprised to find an EPA certified stove that includes a forced combustion air intake. I thought that was kind of contrary to the concept of a clean burning efficient stove. With mine, once it is up to temp, that doesn't take long, the idea is to throttle back the primary intake so the stove gets a lot (most?) of its combustion air through the secondary's. That secondary air is heated by taking a long path around the firebox so it is hot by the time it gets into the firebox. I can see them kick them off and get it burning efficiently. To me it seems contrary to this understanding to force combustion air in with a fan. Do you think that forcing air in, if the stove is not pulling it in might be causing the back drafts?
I am really surprised to find an EPA certified stove that includes a forced combustion air intake. I thought that was kind of contrary to the concept of a clean burning efficient stove. With mine, once it is up to temp, that doesn't take long, the idea is to throttle back the primary intake so the stove gets a lot (most?) of its combustion air through the secondary's. That secondary air is heated by taking a long path around the firebox so it is hot by the time it gets into the firebox. I can see them kick them off and get it burning efficiently. To me it seems contrary to this understanding to force combustion air in with a fan. Do you think that forcing air in, if the stove is not pulling it in might be causing the back drafts?
maple1
Minister of Fire
I don't think an EPA furnace with forced draft is out of the ordinary. The problem is that it needs to be properly controlled thru the burn, and directed to primary/secondary efficiently - which is where this unit seems to be severely deficient.
Fundamental design flaws.
Fundamental design flaws.
brenndatomu
Minister of Fire
Heres my take on the issue with this unit...
The single intake for primary and secondary air...and that little tiny 3/8 opening they want set on the draft blower.
When the blower is on it may be pushing 10 CFM through the firebox (under "pressure") so that may be plenty of air volume to be spread around to all the various primary and secondary holes.
When the blower is off the chimney is now responsible for all the incoming air (negative pressure being drawn on the firebox)
So IMO the total volume of air is gonna drop way down from what was being forced through there by the draft blower. And here is the issue...the volume is now so low that the air can just take the path of least resistance...which again, IMO, will be those rather large primary air holes (that is also the shortest path for the air too) so once the blower shuts off, we are still feeding the fire primary air, but very little, if any, air is getting to the secondary air tube...so now we have a smoky primary air fueled fire (smoky because we just turned the volume of air way down when the blower suddenly shut off) and no secondary air to burn off the smoke/wood gas...eventually the fire totally smolders out, wood gas/smoke builds up...time goes by and the air/fuel ratio eventually falls into the range of "BOOM"...and well, here we are.
Hope this post made sense to y'all...
The single intake for primary and secondary air...and that little tiny 3/8 opening they want set on the draft blower.
When the blower is on it may be pushing 10 CFM through the firebox (under "pressure") so that may be plenty of air volume to be spread around to all the various primary and secondary holes.
When the blower is off the chimney is now responsible for all the incoming air (negative pressure being drawn on the firebox)
So IMO the total volume of air is gonna drop way down from what was being forced through there by the draft blower. And here is the issue...the volume is now so low that the air can just take the path of least resistance...which again, IMO, will be those rather large primary air holes (that is also the shortest path for the air too) so once the blower shuts off, we are still feeding the fire primary air, but very little, if any, air is getting to the secondary air tube...so now we have a smoky primary air fueled fire (smoky because we just turned the volume of air way down when the blower suddenly shut off) and no secondary air to burn off the smoke/wood gas...eventually the fire totally smolders out, wood gas/smoke builds up...time goes by and the air/fuel ratio eventually falls into the range of "BOOM"...and well, here we are.
Hope this post made sense to y'all...
