Fire Chief or Shelter EPA stoves feedback

[brenndatomu]

Look at the up side, it could double as a whole home smoker!

Well, guess that'd be alright if your house looked like this!

 

[Mrpelletburner]

So the top rail (not welded section) that looks like it supplies air to the secondary air tube is just there for support, air does not flow across the tube. The attached photo shows the secondary air tube is welded into the front horizontal tube (front of stove)

 

[Mrpelletburner]

Weld is good!

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[DoubleB]

I'd still try to loosen the door latch a lot to see how much air that could let in to make up the deficit. If that solves your problem, it's not a fix, but a big clue for the problem and other viable solutions.

I also notice that your furnace sure looks clean (it's shiny), and it doesn't look like you had to wipe it down. If so, I'd also think about how you could have such a clean firebox at the same time that thing is just puffing smoke.

Anyone else have thoughts on those?

 

[Mrpelletburner]

Loaded for the night

Secondary burn in action

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Now the waiting game

 

[Mrpelletburner]

Just wanted to include a quick clip of the smoke passing the bio damper

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[brenndatomu]

Just wanted to include a quick clip of the smoke passing the bio damper

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WoW! That's really smoky...
Is that during cold start up?
Door open (or recently closed?)
Combustion blower off?

 

[Mrpelletburner]

This is right after the video of the secondary burn video. Doors closed, draft blower going, stove ~550 degrees.

 

[Mrpelletburner]

This is 2hours after the last load. Talk about a wake up!

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[brenndatomu]

Man I have no idea how they got that through EPA testing!?
My old Wondercoal (think campfire in a steel box) ran cleaner than that on green Oak!

Like I said before...personally I think its a mistake getting that fire huge and roaring...my 2 cents, from someone who has never owned or run this model. Even so, making a huge fire and then slamming the door often causes issues on about any stove...let alone one that has to be restricted to "breathing through a straw" to keep from overheating...don't take my comments personally, I'm picking on FC/Shelter (HY-C) here

 

[brenndatomu]

Has anybody tried running a load without the draft blower on at all?
Might hafta lower the baro draft setting, and open the draft blower door up more...

 

[Mrpelletburner]

I haven’t, but can try tomorrow.

Right now, without the draft blower on and the stove running at full speed ahead, my draft meter reads 0.07.

So when you say “lower” the bark draft, are you suggesting to 0.04?

From what I have learned is that the baro meter measures negative pressure or a vacuum. The closer to “0”, the less draft from the stove. Therefore if I was to adjust lower, the less intake air is pulled into the stove when the blower is off.

Does this sound correct?

 

[maple1]

There should be no smoke going past your baro like that - that is all unburned fuel. This thing is looking worse & worse as the post count rises, I'm not sure it could ever be made to work 'right'.

So - have you sent them a link to this thread? The EPA might be interested in your smoke shots.

 

[laynes69]

With the deep coal bed and ash, are there any passages that are plugged? At the 2 hour mark, that thing should be crusing. Showing secondaries with the door open doesn't show much, it's when the door is closed how it will act. I bet if you opened up that blower flap mid way into the burn, that smoke would have cleared up. It looks like you may have to operate it manually without the blower like suggested, bummer.

 

[maple1]

I haven’t, but can try tomorrow.

Right now, without the draft blower on and the stove running at full speed ahead, my draft meter reads 0.07.

So when you say “lower” the bark draft, are you suggesting to 0.04?

From what I have learned is that the baro meter measures negative pressure or a vacuum. The closer to “0”, the less draft from the stove. Therefore if I was to adjust lower, the less intake air is pulled into the stove when the blower is off.

Does this sound correct?

Yes that is correct - maybe more due to the fact that your intake is restricted by a riveted thingie.

ETA: Seriously, if it was me it would be way past time to start playing hardball with these guys. Sure looks to me like they have built a lemon with design flaws. Their riveted thingie band aid fix for supposed overfires is sign number 1. It also looks like there is a big imbalance between primary & secondary air supplies - primary is generating more stuff than the secondary can handle. So - I would knuckle down with them & start getting to a mindset that you may have to get rid of it & swallow some losses.

 

[Medic21]

Was this right after the inducer kicked on? I'll get 2-3 min of smoke until it heats up again. We are having two different experiences with this stove for some reason.

The only difference in my install is I used double wall in the basement going into the triple wall. My basement is hellish cold. 40-45 degrees and I had a huge creosote problem in the stove pipe on the last stove.

Yes I have loaded this thing full, opened the slide all the way and let it burn over night with the thermostat off and it did good at 35 degrees out.

 

[maple1]

OK, one more from me then I don't think I have anything else to offer - are you sure your wood is dry?

Might have already been addressed and I missed it.

 

[brenndatomu]

So when you say “lower” the bark draft, are you suggesting to 0.04?

From what I have learned is that the baro meter measures negative pressure or a vacuum. The closer to “0”, the less draft from the stove. Therefore if I was to adjust lower, the less intake air is pulled into the stove when the blower is off.

Does this sound correct?

-0.04" would be a start...hafta play with it, see what works. And yes, the lower the number (closer to zero) the less "pull" on the stove. Thats why I said you would probably have to open the blower damper up some to run like this.
Just to be clear, the stove has no effect on draft...the chimney makes the draft...it is the engine that drives the stove. Thats why its so important to have the chimney set up proper and the draft under control (baro)

 

[Mrpelletburner]

OK, one more from me then I don't think I have anything else to offer - are you sure your wood is dry?

Might have already been addressed and I missed it.

very dry

 

[Mrpelletburner]

-0.04" would be a start...hafta play with it, see what works. And yes, the lower the number (closer to zero) the less "pull" on the stove. Thats why I said you would probably have to open the blower damper up some to run like this.

Will try adjusting

With the deep coal bed and ash, are there any passages that are plugged?

Passages are clear

 

[Mrpelletburner]

Besides the excessive amount of smoke flowing past the biometric damper, it has now been 2 days without "back draft" from either the draft opening or rear of the stove.

Also, filled the stove last night around 10:30 and the stove's blower was still kicking on/off at 7am this morning. House was a nice 71 degrees.

 

[Mrpelletburner]

A bit off topic, but wanted to share. We have a couple of those fancy Ecobee's installed, one mounted next to our stove thermostat. I use the fancy system report to track the heat output of the stove. Wife says it is a bit geekish, but I like to know what is going on.

 

[Mrpelletburner]

Well things were going good... Last loaded around 7am, stove had been running fine until this point 12:27ish. The draft blower had just turned off ~20mins prior. After the 2 back flashes, the stove continued to burn fine. I simply don't understand why back pressure builds up as there is a clear path to the top chamber and then out the rear of the stove.

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When opening the load door, this is what the fire looked like.




Draft blower slider is opened more than 3/8". In the photo I am resting a ¼" drill bit on a fin as I am trying to get consistent measurements for opening the draft blower flap. Yes this is the only air inlet for this stove.

 

[brenndatomu]

I simply don't understand why back pressure builds up as there is a clear path to the top chamber and then out the rear of the stove.

Its not back pressure you are dealing with...the fire is starving for air...and I can see why, that 3/8 gap is a TINY little hole for that size fire box to be breathing through! When the blower turns off, the fire now only gets air by what the chimney draft can pull through the intake...so it starves for air, the fire goes out, (the active flame) but the wood is still "burning" (smoldering) so the firebox fills with smoke (fuel) eventually the air/fuel mixture gets to the correct ratio to burn (explode) and there is already plenty of heat in there to ignite it so...BOOM!

Re-read this post from earlier...I think it applies here. https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads...pa-stoves-feedback.167418/page-4#post-2250948

 

[Mrpelletburner]

When the blower turns off, the fire now only gets air by what the chimney draft can pull through the intake...

If I open up the slider to allow more air, is the bio damper set to low at -0.04"?


This is almost as bad as regearing my jeep... change 1 setting and your back to square one.