Everything Drolet Tundra - Heatmax...

[brenndatomu]

I'm thinking I'll email SBI, see what they have to say about my predicament...they can't anymore than say "Put it in, it's under warranty, we'll cross that bridge if/when we come to it"

 

[DoubleB]

I think we're getting closer to wanting to verify the "cause" and "solution" story ourselves.

I'm not stalking anyone, and I'm not completely OCD, but I've compiled information that people have provided so far in this thread that might be relevant. I already notice some popular locations for cracks. Anyone feel free to add to or update this information, if you think that would help. Let's see if we can learn anything.


BPWelding2005:
serial 3xx, late 2013, 1 winter burning
cracks:
cleanout door bottom right
cleanout door bottom left
loading door bottom right
loading door bottom left

BPWelding2005’s friend#1:
1 winter burning, with cracks

BPWelding2005’s friend#2:
1 winter burning, with cracks

DoubleB:
Serial 8xx, June 2014, 1 winter burning
cracks:
cleanout door bottom right
cleanout door bottom left
loading door bottom right
loading door bottom left

Wisneaky:
Serial 2xx-3xx, date?, #winters?
cracks:
cleanout door bottom right
cleanout door bottom left
cleanout door welds bottomside
loading door top left
loading door bottom left
loading door bottom right
one or two more cracks that I can't make out the location

Brenndatomu sister:
Serial 923, June 2014, New in box

The46Zone:
Serial 1432, New in box

3fordasho:
Serial 134x, sept 16, 2014, 1 winter heating
No cracks found

 

[Buzz Saw]

They did tell me the cracking issues have been taken care of with the newer furnaces. They didn't tell me what the issue was though.

I wonder what the cut off serial number is. Think they would share that information?

 

[Smoke Signals]

I think we're getting closer to wanting to verify the "cause" and "solution" story ourselves.

I'm not stalking anyone, and I'm not completely OCD, but I've compiled information that people have provided so far in this thread that might be relevant. I already notice some popular locations for cracks. Anyone feel free to add to or update this information, if you think that would help. Let's see if we can learn anything.


BPWelding2005:
serial 3xx, late 2013, 1 winter burning
cracks:
cleanout door bottom right
cleanout door bottom left
loading door bottom right
loading door bottom left

BPWelding2005’s friend#1:
1 winter burning, with cracks

BPWelding2005’s friend#2:
1 winter burning, with cracks

DoubleB:
Serial 8xx, June 2014, 1 winter burning
cracks:
cleanout door bottom right
cleanout door bottom left
loading door bottom right
loading door bottom left

Wisneaky:
Serial 2xx-3xx, date?, #winters?
cracks:
cleanout door bottom right
cleanout door bottom left
cleanout door welds bottomside
loading door top left
loading door bottom left
loading door bottom right
one or two more cracks that I can't make out the location

Brenndatomu sister:
Serial 923, June 2014, New in box

The46Zone:
Serial 1432, New in box

3fordasho:
Serial 134x, sept 16, 2014, 1 winter heating
No cracks found

I will have on new in box to add tomorrow.

 

[brenndatomu]

I wonder what the cut off serial number is. Think they would share that information?

I really doubt they would, that's kinda admitting that they know they have a problem, and, that they know exactly which ones are affected. They would almost be obligated to replace them all at that point.

 

[bpwelding2005]

finally remembered to check my ser # and mfg date. ser # 632 mfg date 10/29/13

 

[DoubleB]

I emailed my installation and duct details to SBI and only asked how they suggested we proceed. They gave me a very brief email reply today. They said my installation looks good, they would refund the Tundra purchase price, the Tundra is too small for my house, and suggested I get a larger furnace instead.

I have 2100 sqft ft evenly split between 2 stories. My 1050 sq ft basement is unheated. I went through 5 cords of box elder and basswood this winter, let's say thats 4 cords of actual firewood, so I can't imagine my heat load is excessive. And 50 gallons of LP, mostly in October. Tundra worked just fine (I thought).

I must say I wasn't expecting their reply.

Are they implying the cracking is related to my house size? If so, then heads up folks because I would bet a lot of you have Tundras in larger houses that use more than 4 cords per winter. And spent less than I did making it easier to refund your purchase. They list >60,000 Btu/hr avg heat output, which is about what my house takes on a bad day. If I take their refund and buy another Tundra, does that mean that they wouldn't honor that next warranty? If they would honor it, then why not just give me a replacement and keep a customer? Either way, it raises weird questions.

If they are not implying the cracking is related to house size, then does their offer to refund my money suggest they don't have confidence in the Tundras off their line to be a replacement, as they have offered to replace for Wisneaky and others? Then why sell Tundras at all?

I don't get it.

Initially I was dreading having to haul a furnace in/out of my basement. Now, it's worse because I am wondering if I actually should get a different furnace. If so, that is a significant cost adder and duct changes, not to mention that I installed a whole separate duct system (and holes in the house) just for the Tundra that I might have done much differently for a different furnace, all in addition to hauling furnaces in/out of the basement. I accept the reality that cost is what it is and maybe I need to spend more for a furnace, but I don't like doing everything I can to cover the details and then, once I commit, other parties changing their story.

I don't expect SBI to solve all of my problems, there's always some uncertainty the homeowner must bear. But I have a lot of thinking to do to about how to respond because my questions above have me a bit paranoid about what they're really doing.

What do you guys see in this?

 

[bpwelding2005]

just a lil fyi. my uncle has been talking to SBI alot this winter because he had all kinds of problems getting the heat from the tundra threw the ducts in his house so he ended up putting a bigger blower on. but SBI told him they were coming out with a larger tundra some time rather soon maybe in time for next heating season. i know if i could i would gladly up grade to a larger tundra if the cost isnt to much extra. my guess would be a tundraized version of the max caddy. maybe this would be a better route for you double b if the really do have a larger burner in the works.

 

[brenndatomu]

...What do you guys see in this?

Yeah...that's a real head scratcher. Sounds like you need to ask them some of these questions before deciding how to proceed.
Sounds like you have a pretty low heat load for a house of that size. Their reply is just so strange...if they were happy with your install, how could the size of the house mean diddly?! Either it kept the house warm or it didn't! It'd be different if yours cracking was the first one they ever heard of...but they hafta know they have a real problem by now.
Sorry, I don't have any good advise for ya right now, other than maybe investigating this bigger model that bp mentioned. I heard some scuttlebutt here somewhere recently about a bigger one too.
BTW, did you email or call them? I sent them an email last night, haven't heard back yet. I used the "contact us" on their website, filled out a form for more info on their product that I already own, and then wrote a paragraph or so about my predicament and asked for advise on how they would recommend to proceed from here.

 

[DoubleB]

SBI told him they were coming out with a larger tundra some time rather soon

Thanks for the heads-up BP, I hadn't heard that. I'll keep an eye out, but of course have mounting questions that I would have to ask them about a larger Tundra too. Oh, and Max Caddy is 30 inches wide. My basement stairs are 30.5 inches wide, plus a slight jog, and slanted to the side. 26" Tundra was hard enough, I'd have to have you come with your expertise to get a 30 incher down the stairs!

 

[DoubleB]

BTW, did you email or call them?

I emailed them. I'll collect my thoughts and try to email back, but will probably get on the horn at some point.

So in your experience does 5 cords of box elder and basswood in a winter seem reasonable for a 2100 sq ft house? And if so, does it seem that a Tundra rated for >60,000 Btu/hr output (average) should be fine for that?

(Last winter, on the coldest day at -40F windchill, my 80% efficient, 105,000 Btu/hr oil furnace was running 45 minutes/hr. My math says that's 63,000 Btu/hr output, so I figured a Tundra--which is rated up to 2500 sq ft--would be fine. I also don't mind if my LP furnace kicks on once a month.)

 

[brenndatomu]

does 5 cords of box elder and basswood in a winter seem reasonable for a 2100 sq ft house

It seems reasonable to me, especially since those aren't real high btu woods
Oh, and I was confused about the size of your house...I was thinking it was 3400 sq ft

 

[DoubleB]

And, a couple times when I got it really stoking to get familiar with the furnace's limits, the hottest I could get the hot air was 135F, with low fan speeds 1 and 2. I have never observed the high temp limit actuate (shut damper) at 160F. I, of course, don't babysit the furnace 24/7, but I pay pretty close attention to these things. Other than those tests, we load and burn the Tundra more gently.

In other words, I don't think I ever overfired the furnace. It further convinces me that the "too small for your house" is neither the issue at hand, nor true.

 

[Smoke Signals]

I have on to add to the running list. New in crate ser#1469 made 9/23/14

 

[bpwelding2005]

well double b we aint tried everything to make it fit till ya slather that baby with KY and Vaseline, bet we could make that bigger burner slide down those stairs like no bodys business lol

 

[JRHAWK9]

They list >60,000 Btu/hr avg heat output, which is about what my house takes on a bad day.

Gotta question that rating. Weigh your wood loads once, I think you'll be surprised. Wood has about 6,000 BTU's per lb @20% MC. If you load a 60lb load and it lasts 10 hours with a furnace efficiency of 70% you are averaging about 25,200BTU's/hr over that 10 hour period. In order to achieve a 60,000 BTU's average you would burn that 60lb load in a little over 4 hours.

 

[DoubleB]

DoubleB said: ↑
They list >60,000 Btu/hr avg heat output, which is about what my house takes on a bad day.
Gotta question that rating. Weigh your wood loads once, I think you'll be surprised. Wood has about 6,000 BTU's per lb @20% MC. If you load a 60lb load and it lasts 10 hours with a furnace efficiency of 70% you are averaging about 25,200BTU's/hr over that 10 hour period. In order to achieve a 60,000 BTU's average you would burn that 60lb load in a little over 4 hours.

JRHAWK, I like your math for a different way to look at it, thanks for posting. I think the variable is the 10 hours, and I think any of us would be disappointed if feeding it more frequently than 10 hours on the coldest days would be considered harsh treatment. Indeed, when it was really cold/windy our Tundra would do a burn cycle in 4 hours as you calculate or even faster. Of course, that was box elder which I doubt was 60 lbs.

Regardless of heat output calculations, it still kept the house warm enough, without running full loads wide open damper, with rare help from the LP furnace. From my research before buying it, I thought the Tundra claimed to offer just that kind of service. But I'm open to any corrections people have for me.

Thanks,
BB

 

[laynes69]

Here is the chart from SBI. This is for the Caddy series, but this is a basic explanation. It's not 60,000 btus over the entire burn.

 

[DoubleB]

t's not 60,000 btus over the entire burn

Thanks for the graph. It looks to me like it averages 60,000 over the entire burn.

 

[brenndatomu]

It's not 60,000 btus over the entire burn.

Especially not 60k for 8 hrs straight! Maybe 40k for 5 hrs...but then, there's that word...average. (I would assume the Caddy maybe has just a bit more firepower than the Tundra...? But no matter how you slice it, Tundra should be fine for 2100 ft, SBI is the one that gave it the 2500 ft spec...now it's only...what...2000? Excuses, heck, they spec out their large size stoves (which are smaller than the Tundra) at up to 2100 ft!

 

[STIHLY DAN]

They said my installation looks good, they would refund the Tundra purchase price, the Tundra is too small for my house, and suggested I get a larger furnace instead

If you are happy with how the tundra performed, why not take the money and have a welder repair and beef up the problem areas. After all it's just metal.

 

[DoubleB]

why not take the money and have a welder repair and beef up the problem areas.

Certainly worth considering. I was assuming they are going to want the furnace back if I take the money. But, they didn't say for sure, and I saw on AS that a guy didn't return his.

 

[brenndatomu]

If you are happy with how the tundra performed, why not take the money and have a welder repair and beef up the problem areas. After all it's just metal.

I'd be on that like flys on stink, if they would let you keep it. I have heard both ways...they just send you another one, or as wisneaky said they told him, they want him to take his back to Menards for an exchange.
I just noticed that the older Tundras have no weld in the door corners where these cracks are starting, the newer one do have weld there. Doesn't seem like that particular change helped though. Wonder what is different now?

 

[j7art2]

just a lil fyi. my uncle has been talking to SBI alot this winter because he had all kinds of problems getting the heat from the tundra threw the ducts in his house so he ended up putting a bigger blower on. but SBI told him they were coming out with a larger tundra some time rather soon maybe in time for next heating season. i know if i could i would gladly up grade to a larger tundra if the cost isnt to much extra. my guess would be a tundraized version of the max caddy. maybe this would be a better route for you double b if the really do have a larger burner in the works.

They told me the exact same thing when I emailed them on whether or not the Tundra would meet the new EPA regs.

However, if their response is to simply pull the unit and return it to Menards, I'll be damned if I'll be buying anything from the company. Because you know, a 200lb man can just up and pull a 600lb unit by himself. 10 minute job, right?

I'm starting to think maybe I should steer toward something else. Yukon Superjack maybe? I don't know what's in the sub $3000 price range.

 

[trx250r87]

My serial number is #377 and I don't have any cracks as far as I can tell. I received the snap disk relocation kit on Friday and installed over the weekend. It has been too warm to burn but this next weekend looks like I'll get a chance to try the new setup out.

Eric