Everything Drolet Tundra - Heatmax...

[brenndatomu]

Well, SBI finally got back to me today after I emailed them with questions last Thurs nite. Basically, I asked them if there was any reason to not go ahead and install "my" new Tundra since I understand they have had lots of problem with them cracking and I really want to do this only once. Here was their response...(read the 4th line, kind of gives 3fordasho's temp controller idea some cred (post #167)

"Some people did have a problems with their furnace, but what they do not tell is the way it has been installed or used.

WE found that most of problems occurred when the installation is not meeting the minimum requirements of the owner’s manual.

Having the proper air distribution, having the proper static pressure in the ducts, having the proper chimney size, length and ‘’draft’’.

Making sure that the air damper is not staying open from the time you load until the combustion is over.

Making sure that the blower is set the proper way and in operation.

This furnace is a good residential furnace not built to heat a commercial place, not build to heat a garage also serving a house and run at full blast all the time.

There are many reasons why these furnaces have had problems.

For the very most of the time the root case was determined to be a bad installation, or usage."

 

[Buzz Saw]

"Most of the problems come from installion" What about the rest of the problems? Who/what is to blame?

 

[bpwelding2005]

they keep saying when people have problems with not enough heat to not worry about static pressure in the ducts and i know mine never over drafted. i like how they want to pass the blame, especially since they told someone else in a different reply that the cracking issue has been corrected. so if there mostly caused by bad instal how did they fix that???????? makes a guy wonder

 

[brenndatomu]

"Most of the problems come from installion" What about the rest of the problems? Who/what is to blame?

I guess I was asking more so about the cracking issue, I guess they are saying it is from overheating firebox...
Seems a lil hard to buy that considering some of you guys that have cracks seemingly have the setup correct

so if there mostly caused by bad instal how did they fix that????????

Go to dealer sales/install like the Caddys? Hope not...big $

 

[Buzz Saw]

Anyone know what gauge steel is the firebox made from?

 

[brenndatomu]

Anyone know what gauge steel is the firebox made from?

I just measured, it's .185", so real close to 3/16".
Funny thing is my Yukon is much thinner steel...30 year warranty. Mine will be 30 YO this fall, no cracks

 

[laynes69]

7 gauge I believe. I checked our Caddy from the inside with no cracking. The entire firebox is protected from the heat, except for the front. That's where the problems are occuring. It's really not right to blame the homeowners, especially when the furnace must maintain high heat to burn off the gasses. I also believe the Tundras utilize the less dense firebrick which are better at insulating the walls, therefore higher temperatures for combustion. Seems they need to either beef up the front of the furnace, or Insulate it. I know on our Caddy, I won't let it burn wide open for a long period of time. If the draft is higher than necessary and the damper remains open, it turns into a blast furnace. All I can say is it's a shame, and doesn't look good on the company.

 

[STIHLY DAN]

Doesn't the tundra have a high limit that will not let it overheat? Also a unit marketed for diy and blaming bad installs just seems funny. I know its not the problem because many of you have done it right, but maybe they should come with a bdr.

 

[mlaw22]

Certainly worth considering. I was assuming they are going to want the furnace back if I take the money. But, they didn't say for sure, and I saw on AS that a guy didn't return his.

That was me. Just joined this site to give any info I could. They made me pull the foil sticker on back with the serial number on it and put it on a piece of cardboard, then send them a pic of it. I still have the old stove.

 

[DoubleB]

Welcome mlaw22, thanks for popping in. I remembered the essence of your post, but I didn't go back to find it or properly give you credit.

 

[brenndatomu]

That was me. Just joined this site to give any info I could. They made me pull the foil sticker on back with the serial number on it and put it on a piece of cardboard, then send them a pic of it. I still have the old stove.

Howdy! Yeah, thanks for jumping in here. Just so everybody here is familiar, how about a lil rundown on the details of your situation. Also, did you go back to another Tundra and if so hows it doing...also build dates/ser #s if you have 'em

 

[DoubleB]

Doesn't the tundra have a high limit that will not let it overheat? Also a unit marketed for diy and blaming bad installs just seems funny. I know its not the problem because many of you have done it right, but maybe they should come with a bdr.

Yep, it does have a high limit at 160F in the top of the air jacket. However, I can imagine the high limit might not always prevent overheating, in the case that you have plenty of airflow that would keep the jacket below 160F even if the fire is raging.

In my case, I sent copious details of my install to SBI, and they told me it looks good but that my 2100 sq ft is too big for the Tundra. I suspect that's their way of implying I overfired the furnace and caused the cracking. To be fair, maybe I did, maybe I didn't. Problem is no one knows. They don't say how to know if you have, or more importantly, what to do to avoid it. Of course, there's probably no firm definition of overfiring for any stove. But it sounds like they are saying that the only time the damper should be opened is startup and burning off coals. And if so, then trouble is inevitable, especially when the manual doesn't say that, although the manual does say that you can connect it with a thermostat that can open the damper for unlimited duration without the operator even knowing.

As someone already mentioned, it can take 30+ minutes from a cold start to get the firebrick and all hot enough to close the damper, although by then the metal front with the cracks has been at steady hot temps for 10-15 minutes. On the other hand, if you're restarting with lots of coals, you can close the damper after 10 minutes. The difference between 10 to 30 minutes is a whole lot of time to be overfiring, if in fact that is all it takes.

This isn't a rant against SBI, just saying that I think they are finding that their design isn't forgiving enough to match their operating instructions for it, so hopefully at least one of those will improve.

Maybe I'm too patient, but all in all they are still treating me better than many other companies would attempt, so I am still impressed with their quick willingness to refund my money without any runaround. I can apply the cash toward whatever rectification I choose, and they said I don't need to disturb my Tundra install until whenever I am comfortable with another furnace of my choice to replace it with.

Very inconvenient, but I can work with that.

 

[DoubleB]

I know on our Caddy, I won't let it burn wide open for a long period of time. If the draft is higher than necessary and the damper remains open, it turns into a blast furnace.

Laynes, what do you consider "a long period of time?" And, how much draft is "higher than necessary?"

Just curious if you have any numbers, that might provide at least one datapoint that has worked.

 

[Buzz Saw]

Lots of comparison of the Caddy's and Tundras. Are they owned by the same parent company? I know Caddy is PSG and Tundra is Drolet,which is owned by SBI. Is PSG owned by SBI as well?

I find it interesting they are so similar(from reading others replies). Is the Tundra a knock off by another company or an "economy" line to the Caddy?

Or maybe I'm just over thinking this whole thing.

 

[DoubleB]

Is PSG owned by SBI as well?

Yes, Drolet and PSG are both owned by SBI.

"economy" line to the Caddy?

Yes, this above. I tell my wife that instead of buying a Caddy, we bought a Chevy. At least that's the idea.

 

[brenndatomu]

Is PSG owned by SBI as well?

Yes. SBI builds quite a few different "brands" PSG, Drolet, Century, Flame, Osbourne, Enerzone, and Valcourt
Tundra was supposedly built off the Caddy platform and shares the firebox design

Edit: link to history of SBI, kinda interesting http://www.sbi-international.com/index.asp?ma=1&ms=1&mt=1 Just click "history" in the left column of this page (and english if need be, top right)

 

[mlaw22]

First serial 3## second 7##

My first one cracked towards the end of last season. I spend the whole season cursing it trying to figure it out. Sbi answered all my calls and emails. Tried to help a lot. The guys on the AB site helped a lot too. Then the cracks occurred. Sbi stepped up send me a new unit. I kinda didn't want to deal with a new one but I took what I could get. It was a pain once again goin in and out of my basement. I replaced an old us wood stove. The new one hasn't cracked yet. I'm pretty sure I've never over fired it. I've had lots of little issues with both of them.
1300sqft cape cod
900 sqft basement unheated
Built my house 9 yrs or so ago
Darn thing still struggles to heat.
I think alot of it is me. Annoyed I jumped into a new type of burning with a BRAND new unit.

 

[BrotherBart]

Reading these posts I always have to think about the wood stoves that folks here have crack. Virtually every time it happens it is where the steel is punched with square openings instead of radius cuts.

 

[brenndatomu]

Reading these posts I always have to think about the wood stoves that folks here have crack. Virtually every time it happens it is where the steel is punched with square openings instead of radius cuts.

Now that is some VERY interesting information! You would think that a company with the experience of SBI would have and use this kind of knowledge. Pretty bad when a lowly ole $400 Vogelzang Defender stove can take a belly full o hades in stride but a "$2000" furnace cracks up

 

[BrotherBart]

Do a search for Summit and crack or cracks for an example.

 

[mlaw22]

Now that is some VERY interesting information! You would think that a company with the experience of SBI would have and use this kind of knowledge. Pretty bad when a lowly ole $400 Vogelzang Defender stove can take a belly full o hades in stride but a "$2000" furnace cracks up

Agreed

 

[DoubleB]

steel is punched with square openings instead of radius cuts.

It appears that there are in fact radius cuts in the locations of the cracks, but they're a very small radius, almost imperceptable, at least on mine. Maybe we'll see that get larger with newer units.

 

[laynes69]

I've read posts where they've burned open for hours. I never let ours burn open for more than a 1/2 hour. When it closes at that point, it cranks out the heat. Now once the coaling stage approaches, it can stay open if it wants. We don't run a baro now, but when I did I kept it at .05-.06. I will say I've forgotten to latch the door on a full load and went to bed. It was screaming hot thru the night and there's no damage to the furnace. After that, I lowered the limit to 160 to keep things in line.

 

[3fordasho]

I've read posts where they've burned open for hours. I never let ours burn open for more than a 1/2 hour. When it closes at that point, it cranks out the heat. Now once the coaling stage approaches, it can stay open if it wants. .

This is exactly how I run mine, never wide open damper for more than 30mn, and that is for a cold start. Reloads are usually 10-20mn depending on amount of remaining coals. I figure the furnace is most efficient up to temperature with a closed damper. If that's not enough heat for my 3400 sq ft I fire up a second stove. Running the furnace hours on end with wide open damper and a fresh load IMHO is a recipe for over-firing and eventually damage.

I don't think the manual warns against this - but it should. Coming from free standing wood stoves either cat or secondary I wouldn't dream of leaving the stove run for hours with a wide open damper unless you are trying to burn down coals at the end of a burn cycle.

What the tundra really needs is a damper control motor that can set the opening to a burn rate somewhere in-between open and closed when a higher output is required - but then we might be looking at pricing closer to a Kuuma ;-)

 

[centennial60]

Hello all. I've been watching this thread as well as the on AS. I also have a tundra waiting to be installed. Sn #11xx. Couple questions that pop up in my mind are..this furnace is supposed to be very close to the caddy so why are the caddys not cracking? I'd like to see the construction of the door opening on a caddy is it constructed the same? Maybe someone on here that has a caddy could snap a couple pictures so we can compare. Also two main differences between the two that I see are..the caddy uses a larger blower I believe? And has a large plenum hot air outlet compared to 2 restrictive 8 inch outlets. Maybe the restrictive air flow is causing some areas of the furnace to get overly hot. Just some thoughts..

Adam