Everything Drolet Tundra - Heatmax...

[KARB2014]

My next question is who is going to be the first one to take the plunge and make a plenum? I have talked myself into it I just don't have the funds right now. I would think I would have to get a honeywell fan/limit controller? Or does anybody have any other ideas to control everything? Possibly the controls @brenndatomu use and just use the snap disc for the blower?

 

[Builderml]

And the plot thickens. So today i stopped by a good friend of mines house. He too has a Drolet wood stove not a furnace. As we were talking i asked him for a flashlight. You guessed it i started looking around. Took about 2 seconds before i found the cracks on the front face. This will be his 3rd year using the stove so i have no idea when they happened. Wait a minute aren't these tundras cracking because us dumb asses don't have them installed right????
So let me guess he doesn't have his wood stove installed correctly. Last i checked he had his stove venting out the chimney. I found this interesting so i figured i would mention it here. Here are some pictures. 2 cracks above the door on each side. You can see Drolet etched in the glass on the lower left hand corner.

 

[brenndatomu]

And the plot thickens. So today i stopped by a good friend of mines house. He too has a Drolet wood stove not a furnace. As we were talking i asked him for a flashlight. You guessed it i started looking around. Took about 2 seconds before i found the cracks on the front face. This will be his 3rd year using the stove so i have no idea when they happened. Wait a minute aren't these tundras cracking because us dumb asses don't have them installed right????
So let me guess he doesn't have his wood stove installed correctly. Last i checked he had his stove venting out the chimney. I found this interesting so i figured i would mention it here. Here are some pictures. 2 cracks above the door on each side. You can see Drolet etched in the glass on the lower left hand corner.
View attachment 172479 View attachment 172481 View attachment 172477

Man, you just developing a real bad "crack" habit here lately!

 

[TheBigIron]

I see my link from back on page 20 doesn't work anymore, and this Tundra II stuff is kinda hard to find on their site so I did a screen shot of a side x side comparison...this is about as much info as there is on their site right now.
View attachment 172323

Brenn would you recommend a plenum setup on the Tundra??

 

[Builderml]

Man, you just developing a real bad "crack" habit here lately!

Now that I found the good stuff I just have to look for more.

 

[brenndatomu]

Brenn would you recommend a plenum setup on the Tundra??

I dunno for sure yet, I suspect it is the way to go, and a bunch of these guys think so too. I think it makes sense, most of the better (and higher output) furnaces go that way, gotta be a reason for it.

My next question is who is going to be the first one to take the plunge and make a plenum?

Well, I have a plenum that will work, I thought I was gonna hafta but a piece of scrap sheet metal from work to fab the new furnace top from, but then I realized that I still have the air jacket panels from my old coal-converted-to-oil furnace that I tore outta here a few years back. Perfect for making a top to attach a plenum to. At this point that will be my next project, just have to wait until this cold snap blows by so I can let Tundra go cold for a day or two...and when I actually have the time to do it.
I'm planning on using the same snap switch to run the blower, but if I don't like it I have a Honeywell fan/limit switch laying around here somewheres...

 

[Builderml]

My next question is who is going to be the first one to take the plunge and make a plenum? I have talked myself into it I just don't have the funds right now. I would think I would have to get a honeywell fan/limit controller? Or does anybody have any other ideas to control everything? Possibly the controls @brenndatomu use and just use the snap disc for the blower?

Depending on how this whole warranty thing works out that will determine what I do next. As far as a plenum goes I think I would just make something U shaped. I would cut out the two middle holes up to the front of the front hole and just make a box to cover that. Tough to explain but that would leave about 3" of the top on the sides and about 1" up front. I think I should be able to leave the existing fan limit controls right in place. After that I would just reinstall my 2-8" take offs on top of that new box. What say you?

 

[DoubleB]

who is going to be the first one to take the plunge and make a plenum?

Pretty sure @Wisneaky was the first Tundra to already do that a year ago. I'm guessing the pictures are around page 8-12 of this thread, but I'll let someone else look up exactly where.

I can see the plenum thing going either way. Maybe it will help, since it's more open and since others seem to like it.

However, I can think of some reasons that it might not help. First, and by now least importantly, is because SBI has suggested it's a bad idea. They have maintained in emails with me and others here that using 4 of the existing 8" outlets is counterproductive and results in poorer heat distribution. It might sound counterproductive, but there are some heat exchanger designs in which this is true. If you let a heat exchanger breathe too freely, most of the airflow may flow through only one spot, leaving hot spots. If you partially restrict all of the regions of the heat exchanger, you actually can limit excessive air through some regions such that it flows through the other regions, overall resulting in more heat transferred and less airflow required.

Another reason it might not help is because, to some extent the air jacket already forms a plenum, so I'm not sure how much it will help to raise the height of that plenum. All in all, I think it would, because the HX tubes are pretty close to the existing top.

Anyways, I look forward to hearing more results of raising the existing plenum height, but it's not currently worth the effort for me.

 

[Builderml]

Pretty sure @Wisneaky was the first Tundra to already do that a year ago. I'm guessing the pictures are around page 8-12 of this thread, but I'll let someone else look up exactly where.

I can see the plenum thing going either way. Maybe it will help, since it's more open and since others seem to like it.

However, I can think of some reasons that it might not help. First, and by now least importantly, is because SBI has suggested it's a bad idea. They have maintained in emails with me and others here that using 4 of the existing 8" outlets is counterproductive and results in poorer heat distribution. It might sound counterproductive, but there are some heat exchanger designs in which this is true. If you let a heat exchanger breathe too freely, most of the airflow may flow through only one spot, leaving hot spots. If you partially restrict all of the regions of the heat exchanger, you actually can limit excessive air through some regions such that it flows through the other regions, overall resulting in more heat transferred and less airflow required.

Another reason it might not help is because, to some extent the air jacket already forms a plenum, so I'm not sure how much it will help to raise the height of that plenum. All in all, I think it would, because the HX tubes are pretty close to the existing top.

Anyways, I look forward to hearing more results of raising the existing plenum height, but it's not currently worth the effort for me.

Well said. That's why I was thinking of opening up the cabinet top some but still only using the 2-8" take offs. The way I see it, the tundra the way it is designed now does have a hot spot and that is without a doubt the front. I don't think a complete removal of the top would work. I could be wrong don't know until you try I guess. I also don't like a flat top plenum so if I was to do it I would taper the sides towards the take offs.

 

[brenndatomu]

Caddy has a 24" x 24" hole in the top with a plenum sittin on it...seems to work pretty well. To look down inside without the plenum on top, it looks almost identical to the Tundra other than the cabinet insulation

How difficult is it to pull the sides off?

Not bad. I didn't even have to disconnect the ducts. Just take out all the screws around the edges of the sides and the top of the back panel. Lift the back of the top up enough to slide it forward so the front can be lifted off its "clip" Once the top is loose the top of the side panels can be popped out and the whole panel slides forward. Repeat on the other side, BAM, nekked Tundra. Takes about 10 minutes. When you go to put things back together have a box of #10 (IIRC) washers handy to put on any screws that won't tighten (act stripped) for some reason the screw threads don't go the whole way to the top...screwy!

 

[brenndatomu]

So I take a pass through Drolets website last nite...I see the Tundra II and the Heatmax II is still there, no info on them though. (we discussed these back on page 20 of this thread in case y'all need to catch up) So I emailed them to ask "what up?" with these things. Here is their response:

"The Tundra II and Heatmax II are the new versions for 2016. We will have stock in March. They come with a hot air plenum like the bigger version (Heatpro). The hot air plenum is not an option because it comes with the unit and it cannot be retrofitted to the Heatmax and Tundra with an 8’’ outlet."

So apparently, a plenum is the way to go after all. The one thing that is curious is that they have downgraded the "capacity" from 2500 sq ft (yeah right) to 2000. But I would say they over promised to begin with so...

So I responded to SBIs email to me (^ ^ ^) yesterday with these questions...(v v v)

OK, thanks. That brings up another question. I see the Tundra II is only rated to heat 2000 sq ft. VS the original Tundra was rated up to 2500 sq ft. I would think that the Tundra II with the plenum and (10) 6" duct connections would have greater output than the Tundra with only (2) 8" outlets. Is this not the case?
Or was the original Tundra just over rated and the new Tundra rated more conservatively?
So if you have stock in March then I could order one through Menards? Will the price be the same as Tundra, or a little more?
Thanks again!

Here is their response today...very interesting!

The two products are basically the same (Tundra and Tundra II). Same blower. The main difference is that the Tundra II will have the hot air plenum supplied and will now come with electronics that vary the blower speed based on plenum temperature instead of using a fixed blower speed. Those two things add cost to the unit, but they are good features.

Menards still has the Tundra and depending on their stock level, they may be on the Tundra II in September only. The advantage is that the Tundra (actual stock at Menards) is cheaper.

Yes, we used to rate it for 2,500 sq.ft. I don’t think this was “overrated”, but we have realized that people tend to stretch the capacity of those heaters... 2,500 sq.ft. soon becomes 3,500 and next, they crack the firebox by using the product as an incinerator in a garage. So we have preferred to use a more conservative square footage and we have launched the Heatpro, which is almost double the size. I believe Menards has stock of the Heatpro right now, or will have it soon. This can be a good option.

The Heatro is also available online at (broken link removed)

I believe My Fireplace Products will have a deal at 300$ off next month, so you may want to check-out their web site in February.

 

[DoubleB]

Here is their response today...very interesting!

Interesting indeed! I give them credit, they are answering your questions, appearing to be helpful, etc. And the auto-speed blower might be nice (but not necessary). But mostly all it would take for me to be impressed is just some way to know that they acknowledge they have a cracking problem and can demonstrate that it's fixed. Stop belittling operators as the source of the cracking. About the only person that hasn't cracked yet that I can think of is @3fordasho , all because he figured out how to properly design and modify the furnace before even his first fire.

 

[brenndatomu]

Interesting indeed!

Kinda sounds like a mini Heatpro...ehh?

the auto-speed blower might be nice (but not necessary)

I think it may help with total heat output quite a bit. I was actually considering doing this myself. I'm not using the second alarm (low temp) part of my controller, pretty easy to set up the second controller "alarm" to fire a relay at a certain plenum temp..to switch from med/high speed to low speed...or whatever speed combo you want.
Temp controller running the intake damper, and the blower...sweet!
EDIT: Nevermind, I will need a second controller and TC to pull this off...only one input on the controller...DARN IT, another $20 in the hole!

 

[laynes69]

I tell you what....They come out with a variable speed blower controller..I'm getting it.

 

[brenndatomu]

I tell you what....They come out with a variable speed blower controller..I'm getting it.

Sounds like you better get your wallet warmed up! I bet it is the same one on Heatpro...

 

[STIHLY DAN]

Kinda sounds like a mini Heatpro...ehh?

I think it may help with total heat output quite a bit. I was actually considering doing this myself. I'm not using the second alarm (low temp) part of my controller, pretty easy to set up the second controller "alarm" to fire a relay at a certain plenum temp..to switch from med/high speed to low speed...or whatever speed combo you want.
Temp controller running the intake damper, and the blower...sweet!
EDIT: Nevermind, I will need a second controller and TC to pull this off...only one input on the controller...DARN IT, another $20 in the hole!

You can do this with a low ambient kit at a hvac supply house. They are used to ramp up and down condenser fans. The hotter it gets the faster it ramps, and visa versa. 40 bucks or less.

 

[brenndatomu]

You can do this with a low ambient kit at a hvac supply house. They are used to ramp up and down condenser fans. The hotter it gets the faster it ramps, and visa versa. 40 bucks or less.

This would work with a 4 spd blower like Tundras? Or is it for a DC motor?

 

[STIHLY DAN]

This would work with a 4 spd blower like Tundras? Or is it for a DC motor?

Its for an ac motor. It wont change fan speeds, you would put yours on high and it would modulate that from 25% or so to full speed. If you had a ball bearing motor not a sleeve bearing it would modulate all the way down.

 

[Builderml]

I am all over the variable speed blower. I think it too would help with heat out put. Brenn mind sending SBI an email if they are going to come out with a kit that existing tundra owners could install?

 

[Builderml]

So after visiting the drolet website today I was wondering if anyone else has noticed the change in the warranty? Now the only things covered by the lifetime warranty are the "welds" of the combustion chamber and the cast iron door. That's a big difference from the warranty language that is listed on the owners manual that came with my unit.

 

[brenndatomu]

Its for an ac motor. It wont change fan speeds, you would put yours on high and it would modulate that from 25% or so to full speed. If you had a ball bearing motor not a sleeve bearing it would modulate all the way down.

Boy, that would be sweet. I looked around a little bit and didn't find anything that seemed to be quite what you describe. Have a link or a suggestion as to where to look?

 

[brenndatomu]

So after visiting the drolet website today I was wondering if anyone else has noticed the change in the warranty? Now the only things covered by the lifetime warranty are the "welds" of the combustion chamber and the cast iron door. That's a big difference from the warranty language that is listed on the owners manual that came with my unit.

Hmmm, some back pedalin goin on up in here...

 

[STIHLY DAN]

Dave its an ICM low ambient controller. you can see youtube vids of it. the only thing you would need to do is replace the resister With one that would put you in your temp ranges. Although the one that comes with it may be close enough.

 

[brenndatomu]

Well, I finally figured out how to get some rockin heat outta this thing...just prop your damper open and walk away!
Damper stuck open after I re-loaded after work...yeah...154* duct temp! Wah-hoo! I actually felt heat coming out my registers, for a minute there I thought someone had fired the Yukon or something

 

[DoubleB]

Now the only things covered by the lifetime warranty are the "welds" of the combustion chamber and the cast iron door.

Is that for the Tundra only, or did you notice for all Drolet models? Either way, a weaker warranty is not the way to fix problems or improve your reputation and sales. I suppose in my case, my largest crack at the bottom of the loading door also pulled the weld off of the door flange, so maybe I still would have been covered, but not for much.