Everything Drolet Tundra - Heatmax...

[laynes69]

That's crazy! As far as I know a majority of the welding is done by robotic welders. There's no reason why something like that should happen.

I'm curious, and hopefully someone on here will purchase a usstove epa furnace. I guess, I would like to see if they suffer the same problems, and would be curious with their performance.

 

[laynes69]

That's crazy! As far as I know a majority of the welding is done by robotic welders. There's no reason why something like that should happen.

I'm curious, and hopefully someone on here will purchase a usstove epa furnace. I guess, I would like to see if they suffer the same problems, and would be curious with their performance.

 

[brenndatomu]

As far as I know a majority of the welding is done by robotic welders.

I doubt it...but if it is, then they have robot problems because I know of at least one other case where someone found a spot on theirs that was completely without weld...

 

[Byron21]

Good work Brenn very interesting....I was getting a smoke smell from time to time with mine last year...I assumed its was from another area...Just below the loading door there is an air inlet "small hole" drilled into the fire box ...now if you look to the back of the firebox there is also another one center of the box down low... It looked to me that it was drawing its air from within the heat jacket at the back of the stove maybe you could confirm this. I figured I was getting some smoke backing into the heat jacket there... my other question was how was air not being forced into the firebox when the blower was going ... Of coarse I never took the thing apart to see how it was set up ....anyhow just wondering if you noticed it ...good work man

 

[KARB2014]

I doubt it...but if it is, then they have robot problems because I know of at least one other case where someone found a spot on theirs that was completely without weld...

To be honest I would rather have a human doing the welding, especially were it involves fab parts. We have two robots at work and anytime it is not two machined parts being welded together you have the issue you are seeing here.

 

[Buzz Saw]

To be honest I would rather have a human doing the welding, especially were it involves fab parts. We have two robots at work and anytime it is not two machined parts being welded together you have the issue you are seeing here.

I've been out of the industry for a few years now but this can be fixed with better fixturing and program manipulation. Also adding vision to compensate for bad fit up will make the robot very reliable.

 

[brenndatomu]

It looked to me that it was drawing its air from within the heat jacket at the back of the stove maybe you could confirm this.

IIRC, it draws from the ash pan area...

my other question was how was air not being forced into the firebox when the blower was going

Well, the air that was being blown in there just went with the flow...up the chimney...I would guess

 

[Byron21]

IIRC, it draws from the ash pan area...
Well, the air that was being blown in there just went with the flow...up the chimney...I would guess

yeah that makes sense thanks brenn

 

[lexybird]

Brenn I gotta say I am shocked that furnace had so many issues . I'm glad you took the time to investigate further and do the repairs

 

[lexybird]

The stove shop company I did business with in Ohio that sells caddys moves alot of them ,even Max caddys . The Amish in the area buy them up . They remove the side panels and add a bimetallic damper to control the air flap . So keep in mind without electric they have no blower to cool them off or high limit .When I asked him if they had any cracking issues or warped fireboxes .. . He said in all the years they sold them they never have seen that or had any return or defect for that matter .he sells dozens each year on average . I was told the only thing that they ever warrantied was once a guy melted his secondary burn tubes on one small caddy due to the owner burning Eco bricks exclusively instead of any firewood. That testimony helped me with my decision to purchase my max caddy . It is amazing how they could be so similar yet so different to the drolet stuff .whatever psg did in their original design they got it right .being sbi owns psg I can't help but wonder how much more cost could it be to simply copy the caddy line and rebadge it as a tundra or heat pro with very minor skimping on quality

 

[Builderml]

Great work Brenn yet again, I am wondering have you reported any of your findings to SBI? I know your unit has been blacklisted but I would think SBI would like to know of your findings. Looks like the quality control manager and methods need some serious improvement. I personally think that these are welded via humans not robots. Maybe you got a late Friday unit.

 

[laynes69]

I could be wrong about the welding, but I do remember an employee saying they have alot of automation in the plant. I assumed welding is one of those areas. I guess however with the amount and areas of the the welds in the heat exchanger, some of those are probably hand welded. Either way, things like that shouldn't be missed.

As far as the doghouse air both in front and back of the firebox on the tundra, that air should be pulled from the 2 holes up front and nowhere else.

 

[brenndatomu]

Brenn I gotta say I am shocked that furnace had so many issues . I'm glad you took the time to investigate further and do the repairs

Meh, this is really the first actual "screwed up" finding beyond the original cracking...I have not really identified any exact manufacturing issue having to do with the low heat output...except for the latest finding...heat output does seem to be up now...cold snap coming tonight, sounds like a good test to me!

I can't help but wonder how much more cost could it be to simply copy the caddy line and rebadge it as a tundra or heat pro with very minor skimping on quality

Exactly! Like I said before, I would gladly have given up the ash pan completely for the air jacket to have been like the Caddy, lotta heat lost there.

I am wondering have you reported any of your findings to SBI? I know your unit has been blacklisted but I would think SBI would like to know of your findings

No, but I find it hard to believe somebody from SBI hasn't found this thread by now...probably have Monday morning meetings around the latest Hearth "uh-oh"!

 

[Builderml]

Wasn't there and individual by the name of Fryeburg that was associated with SBI on here before? You would think that a company that does probably 75% of its sales online would have more of a presents in forums such as these.

 

[brenndatomu]

Wasn't there and individual by the name of Fryeburg that was associated with SBI on here before? You would think that a company that does probably 75% of its sales online would have more of a presents in forums such as these.

Yes. He left SBI to manage a hardware chain IIRC. Yukon had a rep over on AS too...he kinda mysteriously disappeared both from AS and Yukon too. Rumor had it that something went down there, at least Fyrebug gave us a heads up. I have thought before that it is surprising that more manufacturers don't have reps on these forums...SBI is a big company, you'd think some employee would be hangin around here, even if it is just for his own kicks.

 

[STIHLY DAN]

Dave, from the pic you were getting flue gas in the plenum, you can see the stains. You are right about the negative in the chimney, but when the fan is not on and its a windy day, sometimes the chimney is a positive. I have seen powered exhaust blow carbon monoxide in the house on a windy day. What you found was a serious danger. Also from the side pics I see why the front of the unit is so hot. Do you see the vertical rails used to keep the sides off of the jacket? they are deflecting the air away from the front. If they were at a 35-45 degree angle air would be driven to the front picking up the heat.

 

[brenndatomu]

from the pic you were getting flue gas in the plenum, you can see the stains

I seen (see) no evidence of stains...? There is some dust that has accumulated here n there...is that what you are seeing?

Also from the side pics I see why the front of the unit is so hot. Do you see the vertical rails used to keep the sides off of the jacket? they are deflecting the air away from the front. If they were at a 35-45 degree angle air would be driven to the front picking up the heat.

Those don't come out to the air jacket...maybe half way. Those are stiffeners for the firebox wall. I see what you are saying though...I like it. Hmm, it wouldn't be that hard to cut the welds loose n move 'em...maybe add a couple more shorter ones in the corners there just for CYA...great, just keep coming up with more good ideas to try...I got all the time in the world to re-engineer this thing! (plus my wife loves it when I cut n weld in the basement ) (actually, that part wasn't too bad. I closed the furnace room door, opened the HE cleanout door to get the chimney flowing...that seemed to clear things out pretty quick...no smoke (smell!) in the house)

 

[Builderml]

I don't think that moving those side rails will help much with the air flow. To me it looks like the air from the blower goes from the bottom up. If the air from the blower went from back to front I would say yes the rails at an angle would help. Just my 2 cents.

 

[Craig9702]

ok.......ive asked this question a few times and have kinda gotten multiple answers, and there were some people that wanted to see pictures, so i finally got around to it.........to start from scratch here is my problem. I purchased a drolet tundra to replace a old US stove add on furnace i had when i purchased my new house. the old one was in pretty bad shape so i decided to replace it. I hooked the drolet up exaclty the way the old furnace was hooked up. my problem is........ The drolet just doesent seem to have the grunt to heat the house. I know i have multiple problems with the way it is hooked up, and my question is......are these things that could REALLY change the heat output of this furnace. The problems are I have a 8"x11" clay tile flue. so ive heard, that can pull excess heat ( draft ) out of the furnace? Also I do not have the cold air returned ducted to the furnace......in which i would, but my A-coil on top of my plenum on my gas furnace prohibits me from putting a backdraft damper in because of clearance issues. and also i do not have a barometric damper installed, because of the height on where my stove pipe enters the chimney there isnt enuf height to install one. the main issue i notice is.....when i get the furnace up to temp, which is 400F on the front of the heat exchanger door with a magnetic thermometor. as soon as i shut the damper the stove cools within about 15-20 minutes as to where the two ducts coming out of the top are pretty much cool to the touch....and my secondaries are still burning?.............ok cant wait for the criticism......lets hear it

 

[Builderml]

Craig, I see no hope for your setup.
Joking aside, looks like in that 2' straight run you should be able to install a barametric damper. To much draft will pull the heat out of the unit to fast for it to transfer in the heat exchanger. I would start with that first pretty easy to do. Caution on any advice from Brenn I think he is on the verge of installing a turbo unit on his exhaust along with a super charger on the intake side.

 

[brenndatomu]

Hi Craig.

The drolet just doesent seem to have the grunt to heat the house

They don't have the raw firepower of the old smoke dragons, it's more like slow n steady wins the race. How much house you heatin?

The problems are I have a 8"x11" clay tile flue. so ive heard, that can pull excess heat ( draft ) out of the furnace?

That is very likely an issue. That is almost 3 times the size flue that is called for. Once the intake damper closes and the firebox goes into "cruise" ( the hottest part of the burn) there is not enough heat being wasted up the chimney to keep draft going strong (-0.04" WC minimum) and that makes the fire die down. If you have a manometer it is easy to check this. If you don't have one, let me know, I can hook you up.

my A-coil on top of my plenum on my gas furnace prohibits me from putting a backdraft damper in

Gotta prevent backdraft. If nothing else, slide a piece of cardboard in next to the filter on the gas furnace (shut the power off) this will act as a poor mans backdraft damper temporarily.

i do not have a barometric damper installed, because of the height on where my stove pipe enters the chimney there isnt enuf height to install one

You may not need one. A manometer would tell you for sure. You may be able to get by with a key damper (SBI says not to do this) but you would need a manometer to set and monitor setting the damper on each load.
You have plenty of room there for a baro by the way.

as soon as i shut the damper the stove cools within about 15-20 minutes as to where the two ducts coming out of the top are pretty much cool to the touch

How's the wood you are burning.? These things like really dry wood, much more so than your old unit

 

[brenndatomu]

Caution on any advice from Brenn I think he is on the verge of installing a turbo unit on his exhaust along with a super charger on the intake side.

Hey!...wait a minute...hmmm....

 

[laynes69]

Your 8x11 chimney will hurt performance. While you think the draft is greater, it's the opposite. The gasses cool too much and in return, draft slows. Judging from the look of your chimney, your temps are low enough to condense out of the cleanout on the chimney. When your damper is open, the fire will burn hot, but when it closes you lose the draft needed to maintain proper operation. Brenn beat me to it. I had the same issue as you the first year. Trust me, proper draft and good wood makes a world of difference. Also having your return hooked up would help.

 

[Builderml]

Sorry I understood it as you have to much draft.

 

[Craig9702]

Craig, I see no hope for your setup.
Joking aside, looks like in that 2' straight run you should be able to install a barametric damper. To much draft will pull the heat out of the unit to fast for it to transfer in the heat exchanger. I would start with that first pretty easy to do. Caution on any advice from Brenn I think he is on the verge of installing a turbo unit on his exhaust along with a super charger on the intake side.

I didnt know you could install them horizontally?