Englander 30 First Fire Issue

[04HemiRam2500]

Hey USMC80 I am looking at the englnader furnace because wit the spin draft on the bottom it will help get heat fast. Then, it will start easily. After this year, I am learning that the wood needs to be out a year before you are good. So needless to say already have two cords stacked and split for next winter. Seeing my neighbor after the wood is dry I feel that the furnace is still better because I can have a few moderately wet and still get heat and the blower will move the heat. Unlike this the heat is just staying in the room and I cant expect it to move with a stove temp of 350.

After I get seasoned wood how much more will I use with the non epa furnace compared to this epa stove that is crappy for me.

 

[Augie]

@4HemiRam2500, Many here have given you suggestions, advice, and options for you to try to narrow down the problem, your response is that it must be the stove, or it is "someone else's" problem.

No wood burning appliance will work to full efficiency without dry wood.

If you are going to pout maybe it is better if you go back to the heating method you used before. Im guessing you are making the move to wood because money is tight(like many of US), and you are feeling like you wasted your money. The wood burning furnace isn't going to be any better, than the woodstove, for you until your fuel source is better(dryer).

So what I am saying is that you either need to return the Stove, and decide not to burn, or realize that there are issues you need to address and fix. Stick around and we will help, but you have to be willing to take some advice and not say that we all don't know what is going on. (That is what you are saying when everyone is telling you your wood is not dry enough and you keep saying it is...) I have been trying to help from your first post, and you haven't taken the time to attempt any solution for long enough to learn what is actually happening.

I want you to be successful, but you wont be until you start to listen to the advice you have been given and learn how the whole process works.

 

[04HemiRam2500]

blades that fine and I am going nuts!! I just can not see the furnace being this bad. and will it use that much more wood once it is dry for next winter?

Thank you augie for all the advice. I just figured that since I will be at the store to get another chimney pipe length, maybe it is worth returning this and getting the furnace

 

[PLAYS WITH FIRE]

I don't think anyone here is going to tell you to buy the furnace and your problems are solved. The reason, folks here really want to help you and not create different problems with things they may or may not be familiar with. I would read the reviews on the HD site and see what folks say.

 

[PLAYS WITH FIRE]

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/englander-28-3500-furnace-install-mods.102100/

 

[begreen]

What I am saying s that if I can only get not even half of my house hot and burning just as much wood as the englander furnace which has the big blower to push the air I would rather get that. Also, I removed the ash plug and opened the ash door a little and the thing lit up fast but when leaving the ash pan open and door closed with damper open the fire diminishes again it is about 38 to 40 max outside.

Plus it is the way that it burns the wood that makes me think the furnace will do better.

It sounds like you have wanted to get a furnace all along. We can't tell you it will heat better, but if this is the case go for it. You may not have more heat, but it will distribute heat to more locations if that is the actual need. Note that if you want to tie this into an existing system there will be additional costs for plenum tie in and backdraft dampers. Oh, it will also be a lot noisier. These units are designed for basement installation.

 

[04HemiRam2500]

The noise of the blower and less wood is why I went with the stove and not the furnace. How much loader do you think the blower is compared to the small one on this thing? But I am thinking that with well seasoned wood it is still going to use more but not more than a cord more than this stove since I would have to run the stove hard?

I am thinking that for my wet wood it will do better and with the bottom spin draft it could help keep my fire going let me know what you think. I did not mean to give up on this stove I just figured that I got to go to the store to get the chimney pipe anyhow. Maybe I should just return it.

 

[USMC80]

Hey USMC80 I am looking at the englnader furnace because wit the spin draft on the bottom it will help get heat fast. Then, it will start easily. After this year, I am learning that the wood needs to be out a year before you are good. So needless to say already have two cords stacked and split for next winter. Seeing my neighbor after the wood is dry I feel that the furnace is still better because I can have a few moderately wet and still get heat and the blower will move the heat. Unlike this the heat is just staying in the room and I cant expect it to move with a stove temp of 350.

After I get seasoned wood how much more will I use with the non epa furnace compared to this epa stove that is crappy for me.

Even after the wood is properly seasoned you will easily burn more than a cord extra with the non epa furnace simply because it is not near as efficient. Plus the blower noise on a furnace is loud. I also noticed the forced air furnace dries out the house much more than the insert i got.

 

[04HemiRam2500]

My neighbor has the century furnace he said that if he has his wood split and stacked a year in advance he uses 4 to 5 cords depending on the winter thus average 4.5. His house is very similar to mine so I would expect the same.

 

[begreen]

The noise of the blower and less wood is why I went with the stove and not the furnace. How much loader do you think the blower is compared to the small one on this thing? But I am thinking that with well seasoned wood it is still going to use more but not more than a cord more than this stove since I would have to run the stove hard?

I am thinking that for my wet wood it will do better and with the bottom spin draft it could help keep my fire going let me know what you think. I did not mean to give up on this stove I just figured that I got to go to the store to get the chimney pipe anyhow. Maybe I should just return it.

The damp wood is a temporary condition. Over time it can easily be improved upon, right? Current options as I'm hearing them are :

a. try a cheap test at improving draft to see if that helps the burn
b. try to get some drier wood for the next month or two and work on getting the current wood drier
c. remove and replace the stove with a furnace which is unknown it whether it will improve much of anything

If your neighbor is using 4-5 cords with seasoned wood in the Century furnace I would expect the 30NC to use about 3 cords to heat the same area with seasoned wood. Maybe ask the neighbor if you could trade out a box load of his seasoned wood to try out? Are you sure that Home Depot will take back the stove?

 

[04HemiRam2500]

Thanks begreen for all help the question left is why wouldn't the HD take back the wood stove?

 

[dmmoss51]

Becasue you have already burned in it????

 

[BCC_Burner]

Caveat emptor. It's a great stove, put the time and effort into getting the most out of it and it will reward you with years of clean, intense heat.

I am dealing with some wood that isn't ideal right now as part of my first year burning, luckily about 60% of my wood is very dry so I can mix and match to get good burns.

 

[Hoozie]

Excuse me while I ask a stupid question... but you're leaving the damper all the way out when you start your fires, right? I've been burning in my 30 for a couple months now, and am just now finally getting the hang of it. And now that the weather is getting cold, it's all going to change

And buy a moisture meter

Edit: just read the first post again which says the damper is all the way out.

Does it feel like it's moving something inside the stove when you move it? IF the wood is actually dry (after testing with a meter), I wonder if the damper could be off internally.

 

[04HemiRam2500]

Yes the damper is all the way out. When I close the door though the fire smolders. I am still not liking the epa stoves. Will be heading to the store to determine whether return it or just try a pipe.

 

[BCC_Burner]

We need better nomenclature for new, efficient wood stoves. Some people are predisposed to dislike them because they are marketed as "EPA Stoves." Not saying that is the case here, but no matter what you think of the EPA, these new stoves are far superior to any other wood burning appliance that has been commercially available.

 

[Hoozie]

Which ever stove you end up with, you're still going to want a moisture meter, so I'd start with that.

Did you see my edit about seeing if the damper is moving internally?

 

[oldspark]

Yes the damper is all the way out. When I close the door though the fire smolders. I am still not liking the epa stoves. Will be heading to the store to determine whether return it or just try a pipe.

I would try some good dry wood also, green wood does not burn well even in a burn barrel.

 

[04HemiRam2500]

Maybe the damper is off. It would make sense because if it is closed or partly closed, that could be why the fire goes out when the door is shut even with it open!! How do I check to see if it is attached?

 

[BobUrban]

Make sure you test Hooziers idea? There is the possibility your damper/intake control isn't working correctly. I imagine it is just a plate tacked to the rod you pull in and out and if the plate is not attached it may be shut 100% of the time which would explain a lot. Not an Englander but there was a post about another stove(brand new) with this issue here. The potential clues are that it works with the door open - or the ash pan open?

You could also go on Craigs list and pick up a big ole VC Defiant or equivalent and replace the 30 for next to nothing. BIg stove, TONS of heat, not super efficient and may - or may not be liked by your insurance company. But you can burn water in a Defiant(albeit very inefficiently)

Pick up a brush and some rods while you are at the HD - you will likely be wanting to clean the flue often.

 

[Hoozie]

On mine I can feel resistance through its whole travel.

Also, if you shine a flashlight up the air intake behind the stove, you can see the damper move. It should go from full open to full shut.

I can try to take a picture if necessary.

 

[BobUrban]

hemi - it should feel like you are dragging something inside there - no better way to describe it. If it is off it likely will feel like all you are doing is moving the little rod back and fourth. Visualize a plate welded to the end of that little rod(flat on the end) it should sound like it is scraping in and out. Maybe a schematic showing it on the Englander website?? Or someone here may have the diagram. Also - Mike is on here and is an Englander employee that is SUPER helpful but has obviously not seen this post yet. I would at least wait for him to recommend or help diagnose the issue.

I just can't wait for you to get her dialed in and you start posting how we are fools for cooking you out of your home!!

 

[BrotherBart]

For what it is worth several people a year have this same problem moving to EPA stoves. And all suspect that the primary air control is broken and it never is.

 

[04HemiRam2500]

I will take a look at the damper just to be sure. Another question I have is typically how hot should the stove and flue pipe be?

 

[begreen]

It depends on the wood load and the operator. 500-650F stovetop is a pretty normal cruising range for a steel stove. Flue temps varies with the stove brand and the stage of the burn cycle. Connector setup will also influence this. The temp will also vary depending on the location of the thermometer and whether it is surface mount or a probe. For a surface mount thermometer this could range from 500F surface at the start of a fire to 350 while cruising and 200F late in the burn cycle.