Englander 30 First Fire Issue

[BCC_Burner]

Can't speak to the layout of your house, but try closing the damper down slowly.

Once I have a fire established my stove top temps increase as I close the damper and I get more secondary action instead of just sending heat up the flue. When you have the firebox good and hot you can shut the damper incrementally, which will allow secondary combustion of the smoke to occur. This generates a lot of heat and leaves you with a charcoal like substance in the firebox once the wood is largely done outgassing. This charcoal like substance doesn't release much smoke or creosote, as those substances are related to the volatiles in the wood, which were burned during the secondary combustion phase. This allows you to get that big initial blast of heat, then for the stove to maintain 350-500 degree stove top temps for several more hours, while dampered way down and not making much pollution.

It will take awhile just to get all that metal and brick in the stove hot, 30-60 minutes depending on your startup, then it will start to kick out the heat. After the first reload, once that is caught, burning well and you're inching the damper down is when you'll really start feeling the heat.

It got down to 11 degrees at my poorly insulated cabin last night (2 stories, around 1400 sq. feet) and it was 86 in my living room where the stove is and 88 upstairs when I went to bed. Had 74 degrees in both locations this morning when I woke up and a nice bed of coals in the stove.

There are a number of us who are new to this stove this winter on here, so don't give up yet. We have the experience and knowledge of the "old guard" combined with lots of first timers who are learning as they burn.

 

[Hoozie]

I think the general problem with the paper logs is that people load them like cord wood, then get surprised when it overfires on them. Hence, why most manufacturers don't like them.

So, start with one or two, see how they burn combined with your current wood, and go from there.

Now read the numerous threads about blowing cold air back to the stove, vs. blowing hot air across the house.

 

[eclecticcottage]

I added a generous amount of pine and scrap wood! WOWWWWWWWWW!! what a diference Stove temp over 600 and flue temp staying about 375!! So I am guessing draft is good and it my wood then hugh!!

Thank you so much everyone!!

Will adding paper logs do the trick to get me going or do I need to find scrapwood anyone know where to get that in sw pa??

Let me know if the draft issue is out and as long as I add pine will the fire an ;wet logs burn fine then?

I need to get a alot of pine!!

So for rambling just excited cause it is cold outside

Haha, now watch that you don't go the other way and overdo it and overfire the stove!

Paper logs? Dunno about those. Try tractor supply for Ecobricks or something similar like biobricks. We mixed ecobricks with our less than seasoned stuff for two years.

 

[BrotherBart]

Don't know if it has been mentioned in the thread but loading it N/S instead of E/W provides a faster startup and hotter burn. Just don't load it where the doghouse air is blowing into the end of a split. Have it aimed between two splits on the bottom of the load and put your fire starting goodies a third of the way back between those two splits.

And hang on for the ride...

 

[laynes69]

Keep your eyes peeled for seasoned wood. Although rare, it's possible to find well seasoned wood for sale. Of course it may come at a premium, but not always. As far as heating the house, it will take some time. There's alot of mass there to warm up. Also don't worry about stove temps as long as the house is warm. If your burning clean at 500 and your warm that's all that matters. Now if your pushing 700 and cold on a 45 degree day, then there's more issues than the stove.

 

[begreen]

I added a generous amount of pine and scrap wood! WOWWWWWWWWW!! what a diference Stove temp over 600 and flue temp staying about 375!! So I am guessing draft is good and it my wood then hugh!!

Thank you so much everyone!!

Will adding paper logs do the trick to get me going or do I need to find scrapwood anyone know where to get that in sw pa??

Let me know if the draft issue is out and as long as I add pine will the fire an ;wet logs burn fine then?

I need to get a alot of pine!!

So for rambling just excited cause it is cold outside

Wet pine is an invitation for some serious creosote accumulations. Don't burn pine unless it is seasoned. For now it may be better to stick to mixing in construction scraps with your existing wood. You can usually get a batch from a construction site or if you have a cabinetry shop nearby check there. Paper logs like DuraFlame should not be used in the stove. If you can get some BioBricks or Eco bricks that would be much better.

Plan on checking your chimney at least once a month for creosote until you can start burning dry wood. You can help your wood dry faster by resplitting it and stacking it on a porch or in a garage with a fan blowing air across the splits.

 

[pen]

Not sure how close you are to these guys but they might be worth looking into for some good lumber scraps / seasoned and/or kiln dried firewood if you have troubles finding some eco or bio bricks or equivalent.

http://www.woodplanet.com/main/form/supplierprofile.cfm?compid=4039244&featured=1

pen

 

[PapaDave]

Hemi, soooooo glad the "light" finally came on for you.
Imagine, all these good folks actually know what they're talking about. Hmmm.
Ok, the idea with these new stoves is to get a good fire set, then reduce primary air. You may need to adjust yours differently due to the wood being less than optimal, but once the wood is going well and the door is closed, close the primary a bit at a time.
The fire may look like it's going to die, but give it a couple minutes to recover. Let it burn a few, then reduce air again.
Mess with it, but not too much. The idea is to get it to the point where the primary is closed or almost closed, then the secondaries kick in.
You'll get it.
Seems like someone mentioned this, but you can try some eco bricks along with wood, mixed.
Use a fan at the other end of the house blowing toward the stove room, set on the floor....low speed. It'll set up a convective loop.
I believe begreen addressed this already. Seems counterintuitive, but it works. Trust us on this one too, unless your house is chopped up and not open.

 

[04HemiRam2500]

laynes69 that is part of my problem right now. The game room where the stove is 73 but the hallway that connect the game room to the house has a thermometer that says on 68. I am thinking that the furnace with the bigger blower will suit my needs. Like I was afraid of even with a good fire going right now still am not getting heat to other side of house. I am concerned since it is only 39 outside now. The house is well insulted there is just not enough umph in this blower to move it!!

Thanks for all the help getting the stove going but now that I do have some clue as to operate this thing if it does not heat up old part of the house by midnight will purchase the furnace.

 

[begreen]

I just looked at the stove and the flue temp is just over 250 and stove temp is almost 550. If I close the damper down slowly since wood is not good apparently. Wont it reduce the fire do I need to leave the damper open all the time this winter?

Or will slowly closing damper keep stove hot and save fuel if fuel is wet?

Lastly, it is not that cold outside and it is taking awhile to heat up house new to wood but I am going to assume that is normal. I think I am going to install a couple room to room thru the wall fans.

Also so I should not do paper logs? Why? Like pine don't they burn hot and fast which is what I want.

Thanks again all for all help!! I am just still nervous if I can get heat to the other side of the house if it is in the teen or lower outside? Right now that is the only reason I am considering furnace even if use more wood.

Temps sound ok for mid to later stage in the burn. Remember that 250F on the surface of the flue pipe is going to be more like 350-400F inside. Once the wood is fully charcoal it will not foul the chimney, though you may want to open up the air a little more at the late stage of the load to burn up the coal bed a bit. You are going to have to use judgement for this. The wood dryness may vary. For a long burn turn down the air until the flames get very lazy, but not smoldering or smoking. As the winter goes on your wood will get drier as long as it is under top cover. With drier wood and colder temps at some point you may be turning down the air more than right now. Expect a learning curve here and pay attention to the fire and thermometers. Be patient and observant and you'll do ok.

 

[04HemiRam2500]

Thanks begreen I just think the furnace will move the heat t the other side of my large house better just wanted to get a second opinion about that.

 

[begreen]

Try this trick. Do you have a table fan? Here is a trick for distributing the heat. It works quite well assuming that there is a line of sight path between the cooler area and the stove room. The idea is to blow the cooler air down at floor level, toward the stove. For more even heat in the house put a table or box fan in a cooler room within sight of the stove room, placed on the floor, pointing toward the woodstove room. Run it on low speed. It will blow the cooler air down low, toward the woodstove. The denser cool air will be replaced with lighter warm air from the stove room. Running this way you should notice at least a 5F increase in the room temp after about 30 minutes running. And the stove room temp should drop by a corresponding 5+ degrees.

 

[firefighterjake]

Fan "trick" works quite well . . . it's how I move the heat throughout most of my house.

Unlike a furnace or boiler though . . . it does take time to bring the heat up in the rest of the house.

 

[begreen]

Thanks begreen I just think the furnace will move the heat t the other side of my large house better just wanted to get a second opinion about that.

How large a house are you trying to heat and what style is it? Ranch, colonial, salt box? How open or closed off is the floor plan?

 

[RockyMtnHigh]

I can attest to the fan trick. I have a dual window fan on the floor in my living room pointed right at my stove pulling it from the bedroom/bathroom area. I also have a ceiling fan pushing the air down. This does a half decent job of circulating the air to my bedroom and bathroom. I live in an A-Frame with an 18' or so tall ceiling and the bedroom/bathroom area is an addition to the side of the house, one story. It is pretty tough to get air over there.

I have a Lux programmable outlet thermostat and a thru-wall fan on the way from Amazon. Still trying to decide between pushing cold air into the room with the stove from the bedroom, or pulling hot air from the woodstove room to the bedroom. We never sleep with the bedroom door shut so I think either way will work just fine....

 

[04HemiRam2500]

Okay guys who ever guessed that my problems with the stove is because of human error well, they are CORRECT

I threw in some dry bark and I closed the dampner slowly all the way and I saw what you meant about activating the secondary burn tubes. WITH THE DAMPER CLOSED STOVE GOT TO 650 JUST ON BARK

I think that it is safe to say that the draft is good. My question so far is that after about 35 minutes the burn tubes stopped so I opened damper little by little but they would not activate.

Could it be that the tubes are done burning the bark or even though I do not see it they are working and I should have left the damper closed!!

 

[pen]

Slow down, take a deep breath, get some good fuel, and play around over the course of a few weeks before you go making any more decisions.

Think of what this rapid burst of experimentation has shown you already! Relax and take some careful observations with how you treat each fire and its effects. There's no accelerating a learning curve, just work with what you have with patience.

I've have going on 20 cord of fuel through mine and I'm still finding new tricks.

pen

 

[RockyMtnHigh]

After your fire turns into basically just a wall of red coals the fire isn't expelling as many gasses, this is why the secondary burn system quits doing it's duty, there just isn't as much gas left to burn. Your stove is fine now go find some dry wood HemiRam!

I'm glad you figured it out and it's much like riding a bike, you skin your elbows and knees a bunch but when you learn to ride with no hands you can jump the Grand Canyon

 

[oldspark]

what is the size of your flue that you are venting your stove through? if you have too big of a tile or liner it will not draft effectively for a while until it's up to temperature, sounds like a drafting issue, especially if it's drafting when door is open, however your slide on your englander could be not working properly, afterall you purchased one of the cheapest stoves made to man, i'm just sayin mass manufactured not for quality

Nice, you are aware the stove is considered to be a very good one by the owners, not sure where you are coming from.

 

[Mrs. Krabappel]

afterall you purchased one of the cheapest stoves made to man, i'm just sayin mass manufactured not for quality

 

[begreen]

Good eye teach. I missed that bit of misinformation. Mass production can actually improve quality. Englander has done a great job at producing a quality affordable stove.

 

[04HemiRam2500]

I agree once you get the hang of it this stove is worth the 2-3k stove out there. I am going to get the bigger blower for mine though.

 

[Seasoned Oak]

This stove actually burns well even with VERY weak draft. I have one connected to a 12" square flue.(I know,not recommended) Even when cold i can light the stove quickly and get it roaring.

 

[BrotherBart]

The guy showed up today and pee'd on my advice in the classic room and then on my stoves in this one. A charmer.

Where did I put that button...

 

[Seasoned Oak]

I am thinking it is just pine just looked again stove back down to 650. Does it help to leave door open or what keeps the fire hot cause damper still staying open?

Dont run your stove with the door open except on startup.