Crown Royal Gasifier vs Multi-Pass

[Medic21]

They must not be updated. They actually met the specs last year, first to do so.

remember you will be using 160-190 degree water to heat 120 degree water. You will be fine with 1” and a 15-58 pump to get what you want. A 40 plate with 1” mpt fittings is rated at 160,000btu at 180 degree water. 80 plate is overkill.

I’d never turn you away from going with bigger pipe if there was a chance things could change in the future though.

 

[salecker]

These do not use storage like your Garns and the such. They run wide open or off. These are completely different.

Adding storage would make them a little better water heater,plus then you aren't a slave to the fire box.

 

[andym]

I don't want to derail this thread, but does anyone know what the delivered efficiency rating is on any of the outdoor gassers?

 

[Medic21]

Adding storage would make them a little better water heater,plus then you aren't a slave to the fire box.

The way they are designed if you added water storage you wouldn’t have enough load in them to be efficient and you would loose your coal bed. They hold about 300 gallons that continuously circulates. For a down draft gasser to be lit once a day you would spend a couple hours just getting the fire going.

loading for 12 hours takes 5 min twice a day.

 

[Medic21]

I don't want to derail this thread, but does anyone know what the delivered efficiency rating is on any of the outdoor gassers?

Roughly 75%-80% when you look at chamber temps vs flue temps. 1600 degrees down to 200-400 degrees output. It’s a neat design.

 

[brenndatomu]

They must not be updated. They actually met the specs last year, first to do so.

They seem to update every few weeks...so if its not on there, EPA really dropped the ball...and so did the manufacturer for not checking it...either that, or they didn't meet all the rules of the test...lots of company's have gotten caught up in the bureaucracy of this 2020 testing...imagine that, government got involved and made a mess...

 

[Medic21]

They seem to update every few weeks...so if its not on there, EPA really dropped the ball...and so did the manufacturer for not checking it...either that, or they didn't meet all the rules of the test...lots of company's have gotten caught up in the bureaucracy of this 2020 testing...imagine that, government got involved and made a mess...

I know for a fact the E Series has made it. They did their own testing back in January.

 

[brenndatomu]

They did their own testing back in January.

That's why it's not listed then...it has to be tested by one of a handful of certified labs to count

 

[Medic21]

That's why it's not listed then...it has to be tested by one of a handful of certified labs to count

They have built their own certified lab for testing.

 

[Highbeam]

Yeah, that happened in the stove world too. Some manufacturers claimed to already exceed the requirements of the 2020 testing which is not the same thing as actually having passed the epa test to be qualified for sale after may 15. Only those that are on the epa list have passed.

 

[Medic21]

Yeah, that happened in the stove world too. Some manufacturers claimed to already exceed the requirements of the 2020 testing which is not the same thing as actually having passed the epa test to be qualified for sale after may 15. Only those that are on the epa list have passed.

The 7200E met the 2020 standard under the previous testing at phase 1

 

[brenndatomu]

They have built their own certified lab for testing.

It has to be an independent lab...that's why they aren't listed, they haven't done that test yet apparently...

 

[Medic21]

It has to be an independent lab...that's why they aren't listed, they haven't done that test yet apparently...

When I spoke to the sales manager in January he said they were the first to build their own certified lab. I was under the understanding it was done with the EPA.

 

[E Yoder]

When I spoke to the sales manager in January he said they were the first to build their own certified lab. I was under the understanding it was done with the EPA.

My understanding is testing in your own lab is no longer allowed. All 2020 models have to be tested in an independent lab. Too much room for things to get tweaked.
I dunno, just what I've heard. I noticed CB tested in another lab, not their own.

 

[brenndatomu]

Too much room for things to get tweaked.

Yes, there are a TON of variables...from what Lamppa MFG has said you can do 10 tests and get 10 different results...seems to me, in your own lab, it would be really easy to skew results to pass that aren't realistic real world operating conditions...part of what EPA is trying to do away with.
Or you could even just test until you come up with "a good one"...where with using an independent lab, you are scheduled for certain number of days (and they are scheduled WAY out right now, or have been anyways!) pay a certain amount of money (big $$) and in the end, the results are the results.

 

[Highbeam]

Would you trust in house testing from hy-c?

 

[brenndatomu]

Would you trust in house testing from hy-c?

Supposedly they had to retest the one that they list as "certified" because they only "passed" after receiving a variance on the test procedure...then it was later determined that the variance went too far and the original intent of the test procedure was not met...

 

[sloeffle]

Would you trust in house testing from hy-c?

I wouldn't trust HY-C to find their way out of a wet paper bag.

 

[Medic21]

Would you trust in house testing from hy-c?

That’s funny.

There is more engineering in the handle that keeps the ash door closed on my Crown Royal than that entire piece of crap I had before...

 

[E Yoder]

To be honest I'm not a big fan of expensive tests and regulations, but- I am glad we have less sketchy manufacturers in the outdoor boiler world than we used to. In '08 when fuel spiked it seemed like there was a new miracle boiler popping up all the time making unrealistic claims of efficiency, 1/2” thick fireboxes, etc. Most have disappeared now, the regs have slowed their ability to advertise and online reviews and problems have caught up with them.
Treating people right always pays off with time.

 

[Medic21]

To be honest I'm not a big fan of expensive tests and regulations, but- I am glad we have less sketchy manufacturers in the outdoor boiler world than we used to. In '08 when fuel spiked it seemed like there was a new miracle boiler popping up all the time making unrealistic claims of efficiency, 1/2” thick fireboxes, etc. Most have disappeared now, the regs have slowed their ability to advertise and online reviews and problems have caught up with them.
Treating people right always pays off with time.

There is still one of those in MI. price is cheap as hell and he doesn’t give a chit about regs or where it’s going.

 

[brenndatomu]

There is still one of those in MI. price is cheap as hell and he doesn’t give a chit about regs or where it’s going.

One of those guys that's gonna ride the train right off the cliff, huh?

 

[andym]

There is still one of those in MI. price is cheap as hell and he doesn’t give a chit about regs or where it’s going.

I know exactly who you're referring to! I very nearly purchased a rebuild kit from them to build my own smoke dragon. (That was before I joined this forum. ..and learned how truly inefficient they are!)
I think this is a prime illustration of how government regulations (while accomplishing a lot of good) have forced prices beyond what many people are willing/able to afford.
One CB dealer said he could sell me a Classic, he just couldn't hook it to my house. If the EPA is so concerned about pollution, why don't they ditch the "commercial purposes" clause?
The manufacturer mentioned above is only selling what his customers want. Albeit illegally.

 

[Medic21]

One of those guys that's gonna ride the train right off the cliff, huh?

His history as a sex offender for crimes against children suggests he rode that train a long time ago.

That’s why I didn’t buy from him and glad I didn’t. The$4,000 saved probably would have been a repeat of the HY-C debacle...

 

[Deets]

Hey fellas,
New guy here, read through this thread and found some good info. But still have some questions on the topic of gasser VS multipass.
This 12 hour burn thing on the gassers, I just don’t see it working for me. Are any of you guys running em for 24 hours consistently?