Covid scare

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So now capitalism is bad?
I guess I’m not sure if a government and big tech working with each other to benefit each other to make a profit is an example of capitalism. Especially when the same rules don’t apply to everyone. Censoring someone’s opinion because you don’t agree with it is a violation of our first amendment rights.
 
I guess I’m not sure if a government and big tech working with each other to benefit each other to make a profit is an example of capitalism. Especially when the same rules don’t apply to everyone. Censoring someone’s opinion because you don’t agree with it is a violation of our first amendment rights.
There is a difference between "censoring someone's opinion" and allowing misinformation to propagate.
The problem is: who gets to decide what constitutes misinformation but CLEARLY there has been a lot of that recently.
 
I guess I’m not sure if a government and big tech working with each other to benefit each other to make a profit is an example of capitalism. Especially when the same rules don’t apply to everyone. Censoring someone’s opinion because you don’t agree with it is a violation of our first amendment rights.
I think you should read the 1st amendment again.

But it's a great example of capitalism when say "big oil" works with the govt to make huge profits? Or and of the other industries that do the same thing? Why is it only a problem when "big tech" does it?
 
So now capitalism is bad?
I guess I’m not sure if a government and big tech working with each other to benefit each other to make a profit is an example of capitalism. Especially when the same rules don’t apply to everyone. Censoring someone’s opinion because you don’t agree with is a violation of our first amendment rights
 
There is a difference between "censoring someone's opinion" and allowing misinformation to propagate.
The problem is: who gets to decide what constitutes misinformation but CLEARLY there has been a lot of that recently.
Exactly, and who gets to decide what is misinformation? Many of the things we are not allowed to talk about turn out to be true. Anyone who said covid may have originated from a lab had their social media accounts suspended. We still don’t know the truth but the science suggests it. Anything about ivermectin being used to treat covid was censored.
 
I guess I’m not sure if a government and big tech working with each other to benefit each other to make a profit is an example of capitalism. Especially when the same rules don’t apply to everyone. Censoring someone’s opinion because you don’t agree with it is a violation of our first amendment rights.

I don't believe there has been censoring going on. You can go to any street corner and proclaim anything you want. Your first amendment rights are not in play.

Maybe one can't use all platforms to exercise said rights, but if those platforms are not the public space but private entities (companies), then you don't have that right on those platforms. The first amendment rights do not pertain to private spaces.

People complaining about Facebook etc not allowing dissenting voices should think carefully as they are in essence advocating that the government should take over private entities or force them to speak what they don't want to say.
 
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Exactly, and who gets to decide what is misinformation? Many of the things we are not allowed to talk about turn out to be true. Anyone who said covid may have originated from a lab had their social media accounts suspended. We still don’t know the truth but the science suggests it. Anything about ivermectin being used to treat covid was censored.
I again would suggest you read the 1st amendment
 
I think you should read the 1st amendment again.

But it's a great example of capitalism when say "big oil" works with the govt to make huge profits? Or and of the other industries that do the same thing? Why is it only a problem when "big tech"
I don't believe there has been censoring going on. You can go to any street corner and proclaim anything you want. Your first amendment rights are not in play.

Maybe one can't use all platforms to exercise said rights, but if those platforms are not the public space but private entities (companies), then you don't have that right on those platforms. The first amendment rights do not pertain to private spaces.

People complaining about Facebook etc not allowing dissenting voices should think carefully as they are in essence advocating that the government should take over private entities or force them to speak what they don't want to say
I don't believe there has been censoring going on. You can go to any street corner and proclaim anything you want. Your first amendment rights are not in play.

Maybe one can't use all platforms to exercise said rights, but if those platforms are not the public space but private entities (companies), then you don't have that right on those platforms. The first amendment rights do not pertain to private spaces.

People complaining about Facebook etc not allowing dissenting voices should think carefully as they are in essence advocating that the government should take over private entities or force them to speak what they don't want to say.
I don't believe there has been censoring going on. You can go to any street corner and proclaim anything you want. Your first amendment rights are not in play.

Maybe one can't use all platforms to exercise said rights, but if those platforms are not the public space but private entities (companies), then you don't have that right on those platforms. The first amendment rights do not pertain to private spaces.

People complaining about Facebook etc not allowing dissenting voices should think carefully as they are in essence advocating that the government should take over private entities or force them to speak what they don't want to say.
The first amendment may not apply to private entities. However when a government and Silicon Valley get to decide what information we are allowed to talk about and hear our system is broke. The problem isn’t free speech it is politics and money.
 
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The first amendment may not apply to private entities. However when a government and Silicon Valley get to decide what information we are allowed to talk about and hear our system is broke. The problem isn’t free speech it is politics and money.
I agree politics and money is a big part of the problem which is what many of us have been saying for years.

But to some it's only a problem now because now it's going against their interests
 
I agree politics and money is a big part of the problem which is what many of us have been saying for years.

But to some it's only a problem now because now it's going against their interests
Very true, many people simply want to live They way they want without others telling them how to do it. Governments should protect its people and regulate corporations, not protect corporations and regulate people.
 
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Very true, many people simply want to live They way they want without others telling them how to do it. Governments should protect its people and regulate corporations, not protect corporations and regulate people.
I agree completely. But many who have been totally against and corporate regulations all along are now all of a sudden calling for them in this case. Why is that?
 
I agree completely. But many who have been totally against and corporate regulations all along are now all of a sudden calling for them in this case. Why is that?
I can’t speak for others but I imagine many of us haven’t experienced an event such as covid that has been politicized and had such an effect on our daily lives, economy, and mental health. Our government shouldn’t try to force and enforce our health care decisions.
 
The small community I live in was forced to fire the majority of its EMS staff because they did not want a vaccination. From what I understand the hospital that employed them would not receive government funding if the hospital did not follow orders. This is a very rural area, and there is not another ambulance service nearby. I do not work for the EMS service but am a public employee. Many of these EMS workers worked through covid, gave chest compressions to dying covid patients. They understand the risks. Forcing them out of work is going to hurt them their families and our community.
 
The small community I live in was forced to fire the majority of its EMS staff because they did not want a vaccination. From what I understand the hospital that employed them would not receive government funding if the hospital did not follow orders. This is a very rural area, and there is not another ambulance service nearby. I do not work for the EMS service but am a public employee. Many of these EMS workers worked through covid, gave chest compressions to dying covid patients. They understand the risks. Forcing them out of work is going to hurt them their families and our community.
They were not forced out of work. They were given the choice of getting a vaccination or not. Not getting it without a medical reason not to came with consequences. It isn't about risk to themselves it's about risk to others.
 
They were not forced out of work. They were given the choice of getting a vaccination or not. Not getting it without a medical reason not to came with consequences. It isn't about risk to themselves it's about risk to others.
We shouldn’t need a medical reason to refuse healthcare. Does a pregnant mother need a reason to get an choice? I could show you many examples of people who choose to get the covid shot and experienced negative side effects and even died. It doesn’t happen often but it does occur. Lots of stories of young people having heart problems after being vaccinated. Sadly these stories are suppressed by our media. I am not against the covid vaccination. We should be allowed to consider our individual situation, age health and make a decision that we feel is best for us. When our government makes this decision for us it reminds me of a popular Orwell book.
 
They were not forced out of work. They were given the choice of getting a vaccination or not. Not getting it without a medical reason not to came with consequences. It isn't about risk to themselves it's about risk to others.
Well said , couldn’t agree more .
 
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Phew. Here's my 2 cents as a scientist with a little knowledge of immunology...

Before Covid, there were already 4 human coronaviruses in circulation. We have ALL had ALL 4 of these coronaviruses in our lives, each multiple times. They cause cold symptoms, and have been around a long time. After we get one, we get partial immunity from that one, which then fades over time, and we get it again. Do these 4 coronaviruses kill people? yes they do! Very old and sick people and immunosuppressed people.

And that is all pre-covid.

There is some evidence that one of the 4 popped up in 1890 or so, source unknown, and caused the global pandemic that killed millions (and might have caused the great economic panic that is considered worse than the great depression). Then once everyone had been exposed, the deaths tapered off, and it just joined the other 3 already in circulation.

As for covid... it looks a lot like the other 4 coronaviruses. The other 4 have been evolving and developing variants for a long time, and have seldom caused deaths in people whose immune systems have seen the earlier versions. Covid will probably just turn into #5 eventually.

All these viruses cause head colds, or rarely pneumonia, in people with partial immunity. There are not a lot of antibodies in nasal mucus, so the virus gets in, infects some cells in your nose, gets sneezed out and its done its job, reproducing and spreading. And your immune system then goes in and wipes out your infected cells (and causes the cold symptoms in the process). Normally, if this virus tries to spread beyond your ENT, the antibodies grab it, and prevent the virus from infecting your vital organs. BC your antibodies are in your blood, not your nasal mucous.

So, now if an unvaxxed person gets covid and has no antibodies, that virus can run rampant through their whole system, infecting all their organ systems (and getting deeper into the lungs) and their brain, causing all kind of havoc. Death or long-term disability.

So what the vaccine (and booster does) is (1) give you antibodies (which fade after 6-18 mos) and (2) gives you T-cells (which never fade, but need some time to wake up and fight the infection). You have two lines of defense.

This is why the vax is not perfect in preventing ENT infections from covid. And the same reason there are no vax's for 'the common cold', bc there are few antibodies and T-cells in nasal mucus. And with the ENT infection you have 'symptoms'. BUT the same vax WILL protect you getting worse complications. Natural infection (if it doesn't kill or disable you first) will give you both antibody and T-cell immunity. It seems less antibody immunity than the vaccine (so you are more likely to get reinfected and some symptoms), but the T-cell immunity may be better (which means it could be as good at preventing death from organ failure as the vax case).

Bottom line, your immune system is complicated and a wonder that has been saving your azz for decades now, and will hopefully keep doing that in the future. It only struggles with germs that it **has never seen before**, but once it has seen a germ, it does a great job of keeping you alive (but doesn't care about 'symptoms', you can suck it up while its doing its thing). Given this, vaccines are brilliant and completely safe... just tipping off your wonderful immune system before an enemy attack.

Covid vaccines work. People who are vaxxed and boosted get infected by omicron, but their odds of dying are reduced by more than 95%! The complication rate from the vaccine is less than 1 in a million.

Original Covid kills about 1% of the unvaxxed people it touches, Omicron close to 0.3-0.5%. I will take a sore arm and a one in a million chance of getting really sick over a 0.3% chance of dying any day of the week. If you aren't vaxxed, you should be.
 
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Phew. Here's my 2 cents as a scientist with a little knowledge of immunology...

Before Covid, there were already 4 human coronaviruses in circulation. We have ALL had ALL 4 of these coronaviruses in our lives, each multiple times. They cause cold symptoms, and have been around a long time. After we get one, we get partial immunity from that one, which then fades over time, and we get it again. Do these 4 coronaviruses kill people? yes they do! Very old and sick people and immunosuppressed people.

And that is all pre-covid.

There is some evidence that one of the 4 popped up in 1890 or so, source unknown, and caused the global pandemic that killed millions (and might have caused the great economic panic that is considered worse than the great depression). Then once everyone had been exposed, the deaths tapered off, and it just joined the other 3 already in circulation.

As for covid... it looks a lot like the other 4 coronaviruses. The other 4 have been evolving and developing variants for a long time, and have seldom caused deaths in people whose immune systems have seen the earlier versions. Covid will probably just turn into #5 eventually.

All these viruses cause head colds, or rarely pneumonia, in people with partial immunity. There are not a lot of antibodies in nasal mucus, so the virus gets in, infects some cells in your nose, gets sneezed out and its done its job, reproducing and spreading. And your immune system then goes in and wipes out your infected cells (and causes the cold symptoms in the process). Normally, if this virus tries to spread beyond your ENT, the antibodies grab it, and prevent the virus from infecting your vital organs. BC your antibodies are in your blood, not your nasal mucous.

So, now if an unvaxxed person gets covid and has no antibodies, that virus can run rampant through their whole system, infecting all their organ systems (and getting deeper into the lungs) and their brain, causing all kind of havoc. Death or long-term disability.

So what the vaccine (and booster does) is (1) give you antibodies (which fade after 6-18 mos) and (2) gives you T-cells (which never fade, but need some time to wake up and fight the infection). You have two lines of defense.

This is why the vax is not perfect in preventing ENT infections from covid. And the same reason there are no vax's for 'the common cold', bc there are few antibodies and T-cells in nasal mucus. And with the ENT infection you have 'symptoms'. BUT the same vax WILL protect you getting worse complications. Natural infection (if it doesn't kill or disable you first) will give you both antibody and T-cell immunity. It seems less antibody immunity than the vaccine (so you are more likely to get reinfected and some symptoms), but the T-cell immunity may be better (which means it could be as good at preventing death from organ failure as the vax case).

Bottom line, your immune system is complicated and a wonder that has been saving your azz for decades now, and will hopefully keep doing that in the future. It only struggles with germs that it **has never seen before**, but once it has seen a germ, it does a great job of keeping you alive (but doesn't care about 'symptoms', you can suck it up while its doing its thing). Given this, vaccines are brilliant and completely safe... just tipping off your wonderful immune system before an enemy attack.

Covid vaccines work. People who are vaxxed and boosted get infected by omicron, but their odds of dying are reduced by more than 95%! The complication rate from the vaccine is less than 1 in a million.

Original Covid kills about 1% of the unvaxxed people it touches, Omicron close to 0.3-0.5%. I will take a sore arm and a one in a million chance of getting really sick over a 0.3% chance of dying any day of the week. If you aren't vaxxed, you should be.
That is your opinion....
You are free to get vaxxed, and double vaxxed, and triple vaxxed, and quadruple vaxxed...
But when someone has to force you to "save yourself " there is a problem.
 
That is your opinion....
You are free to get vaxxed, and double vaxxed, and triple vaxxed, and quadruple vaxxed...
But when someone has to force you to "save yourself " there is a problem.
Did your children get to make an informed decision about whether they wanted to get vaccinated or not?
 
Did your children get to make an informed decision about whether they wanted to get vaccinated or not?
That is your opinion....
You are free to get vaxxed, and double vaxxed, and triple vaxxed, and quadruple vaxxed...
But when someone has to force you to "save yourself " there is a problem.
Yes, you are free. No one is forcing you.
But there are consequences. Such as "kids can't go to school if not vaccinated", or, "you can't work here".
As with everything in life, there are consequences. You are free to choose otherwise, if you can swallow the consequences.
 
Yes, you are free. No one is forcing you.
But there are consequences. Such as "kids can't go to school if not vaccinated", or, "you can't work here".
But why? If someone wants to take they're chance with Covid, instead of taking they're chance with the vax, why cant they go to school? Or why cant they go to work?
 
The same as why kids need to have vaccines against rubella, mumps, etc etc. to go to school.
 
My friend's wife worked for heathcare and had many employees working in her group. Her observation was that a large majority of the anti-vaxers in her group were the troublemakers. Unless they really screwed up she could not fire them but if they refused the vax they were out the door. She and her supervisors didnt spend much time trying to convince the anti-vaxers to take the shot. Yes, they were shorthanded for the short term afterwards but they were a lot better off with the troublemakers gone.
 
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