Covid scare

[woodgeek]

Why the hate??? You are "protected" so why do you care if other people choose not to get vaxxed? Do you also hate people that smoke, because they are doing something that might affect theyre health? What about obese people. Do you hate them because theyre eating habits will be theyre early demise?

An important point. I'm not a hater, and I don't hate the unvaxxed, or smokers, or the overweight. At all.

People who smoke and are overweight are all well aware of the dangers. Let's put them aside.

We live in a society filled with **grifters**. People peddling misinformation for their own purposes, like getting famous or messing with people they don't like, but mostly just to make loads of money. Of course, there have always been grifters, and no political party or country has ever been free of it. They live in a legal gray area. It's perfectly legal to tell people (most) things that are not true. So if you can make a buck at it, go for it.

The internet and social media have been a huge boon to grifters. And the result is an explosion of grifting.

I happen to think that at this time one political party has a much bigger grifter problem than the other, in fact being infested by them. And that historically, the roles may have been reversed. But I am also certain that the current level of grift is not sustainable, and will naturally correct itself.

Now, there are grifters and there are 'marks'. If there are people who know that the vax is much less likely than covid to hurt them, and don't get vaxxed for whatever reason... I'm aok with them. Free country. But I think a lot of the unvaxxed are just marks. And a lot of grifters have made money and fame (and political success) making them marks. Why would I hate a mark?

I don't do hate. I can't even work up a proper hate on my ex-wife. Who certainly would deserve it. Trust me.

The people that piss me off? The middle men for grifters. That is a sweet business model. I don't even have to get my hands dirty making up misinformation, if I can make a percentage on the trafficking of it. Zuckerberg knows that his platform is ground zero for grifters doing their thing. But the grifters really rake in the eyeballs and the clicks, and he makes money on that. If he got rid of all the misinformation, it would seriously dent his bottom line. His content would look like the boring news from CNN or BBC, and he'd have no edge. So he will never do that.

But Zuck is an easy target. Fox is an easy target. The Russian troll farms are an easy target. And ofc all three feed each other.

But I think ALL the media is guilty. Journalism schools taught 'both-sides'-ism. They taught journalism was not about finding (or even assessing) the truth any more, just report both sides and let the readers decide. Easy! And guess what, both-sides journalism makes for better click-bait articles, and more reposted articles, compared to boring old restatements of scientifically or historically validated facts.

And so ALL media enables misinformation, and is in on the grift.

For the record, if I want to know what's true, I just go read wikipedia first.

 

[sprawlnstall]

If I choose to become vaccinated and experience negative side effects can I hold the manufacturer responsible? If my employer or the federal government forced me to become vaccinated can I hold them responsible? The answer is no. Imagine having your chimney cleaned by a professional company and their negligence results in your house burning down. You can hold them responsible. Choosing to get a vaccination is one thing but mandates are something much different.

 

[woodgeek]

I like hearth analogies...

Imagine instead that we lived in a world with 'slammer' insert installs, and plenty of folks burned wet wood in them, creosoted up their stacks, and had house fires as a result.

And then the govt decided to ban those kinds of installs, **mandating** that you spend your hard earned money on SS liners. At least on new installs. And guess what--very rarely--someone still has a housefire from their properly installed woodstove insert and liner.

Would you be able to sue the maker of the (non-defective) liner? Nope!

Well, if someone was on a FB video talking about how they and their friends have been burning wet wood in their slammers for decades without a problem but the guy down the street with a liner had a housefire (none of which is verifiable, btw), NOW its pitchforks and torches time. Gotta shut down those liner makers! They're colluding with the govt just to make a buck peddling garbage liners!

Can you sue them now? Still nope, bc its BS.

Medicine is about risk. Its all probabilities. They do large studies according to legal rules and requirements, assess the risks of treatment or not treatment, and are given a license to sell their medicine, or denied a license. Cars kill people, but the makers have a license to sell them. So if a vaccine killed one in a million people, but saved 1000 in a million, and there was no better vaccine, they would get a license. Done. And in reality, the vaccines in use have an injury rate well below 1 in a million.

 

[firefighterjake]

All I know is I will be much happier when things return to "normal" . . . my wife is a nurse and she wisely decided to take a few months off. To tell the truth after seeing how some folks act I am not eager for her to return to work.

 

[wishlist]

If I choose to become vaccinated and experience negative side effects can I hold the manufacturer responsible? If my employer or the federal government forced me to become vaccinated can I hold them responsible? The answer is no. Imagine having your chimney cleaned by a professional company and their negligence results in your house burning down. You can hold them responsible. Choosing to get a vaccination is one thing but mandates are something much different.

Good questions. Did you ask these questions when you were vaccinated to go to school? College ? Did you refuse?

 

[sprawlnstall]

Good questions. Did you ask these questions when you were vaccinated to go to school? College ? Did you refuse?

Obviously not I was only 5 years old at the time. Smallpox and polio are not covid, you can’t compare apples to oranges. Neither of these vaccines were a political issue either.

 

[stoveliker]

Not the same, but conceptually not different.

Neither were *made* a political issue. Mandates were mostly received with joy. Not uniformly, but.mostly.

 

[Fingerlakes Fireplace]

My opinions are my own, but are scientifically informed. If you don't believe in science, you should say that explicitly. Maybe renounce technology and join the Amish?

1. Masks do work.
2. I never thought that getting vaxxed would prevent me from getting and/or spreading Covid, because that was never the scientific expectation. I thought they would reduce the probability of those things somewhat, and that that partial protection would fade with time.

My post was in fact trying to explain that the point of getting vaxxed (and boosted) is to reduce the chance of dying (and severe illness), and how it is that vaccines are much better at that than preventing infection and transmission. IOW, your vaxxed immune system is not capable of preventing infection or transmission (just like how you get colds again and again), but it IS able to keep you from dying (assuming its working ok).

You can choose to not get vaxxed, just like you can decide to smoke two packs a day, despite both being a danger to your health, and to a lesser extent the health of those around you. But don't pretend its the smart or

The antivaxers should all find a desserted island to live on and let darwin's theory play out.

Why the hate??? You are "protected" so why do you care if other people choose not to get vaxxed? Do you also hate people that smoke, because they are doing something that might affect theyre health? What about obese people. Do you hate them because theyre eating habits will be theyre early demise

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.
Mandates were mostly received with joy.

By your type, that is huddled in the basement, double masked, vaxxed, and quivering in fear from all the media hype.
The average working man, has zero use for all these mandates.
If he wants to wear a mask, he can.
If he want a vax, he can get one.
How about you concern yourself with where Covid came from???
Worry about something useful...

 

[stoveliker]

By your type, that is huddled in the basement, double masked, vaxxed, and quivering in fear from all the media hype.
The average working man, has zero use for all these mandates.
If he wants to wear a mask, he can.
If he want a vax, he can get one.
How about you concern yourself with where Covid came from???
Worry about something useful...

Thank you for telling me what type I am. I could indeed use that as you know me much better than I do.

I meant that the polio vaccine was received with joy. Google it. Or ask your parents.

 

[woodgeek]

By your type, that is huddled in the basement, double masked, vaxxed, and quivering in fear from all the media hype.
The average working man, has zero use for all these mandates.
If he wants to wear a mask, he can.
If he want a vax, he can get one.
How about you concern yourself with where Covid came from???
Worry about something useful...

No huddling or quivering. I knew that I was low risk, and what steps I needed to take to minimize infection, a working man throughout.

If you are so far down the rabbit hole, that you think that public health officials, charged with protecting the 'average working man', are corrupt or evil, well there will be no reaching you. Vaccine mandates were good enough for George Washington, so they seem like a good idea to me.

I HAVE looked into where the virus came from, as have a lot of people. I am rather convinced that is was an accidental escape of a partially engineered virus from a virology lab in Wuhan, as are many scientists I know. One person I read described covid as 'biotech's Chernobyl'. Except it killed 50,000x as many people as Chernobyl.

Why?
--Imagine that the next pandemic virus appears, of all places, in Decatur, Georgia, in a Whole Foods down the street from the CDC. Would that be suspicious?
--Now imagine that the virus is clearly related to a bunch of viruses know to live in that giant batcave outside Austin TX (and not present in GA at all), and that the CDC is the world leader in collecting those viruses from Austin and studying them. Is that suspicious?
--Ofc, also suppose that there are allegations of underfunding at the CDC and scientists cutting corners on PPE and occasionally getting infected with the viruses they are studying.
--Now what if a scientist at the CDC had written a proposal to the NIH suggesting engineering one of those bat viruses to have a receptor to a human protein (ACE) which none of those bat viruses had previously been know to have (but which unrelated human viruses often do)? And then the new pandemic virus happened to have just that particular receptor molecule? And it appeared less than 12 mos after the proposal was submitted! Suspicious?

What would you think?

That was the situation in Wuhan. Scientists there actually proposed (to the US NIH) engineering a bat coronavirus to bind a human ACE receptor. The proposal was not funded, being deemed ridiculously irresponsible and dangerous. 6 months before Covid popped up in the same neighborhood where that scientist worked, 500 miles from the batcave.

As a scientist, I will tell you a secret... we routinely write funding proposals about experiments that we are already doing, or just about to do!

 

[bholler]

Why the hate??? You are "protected" so why do you care if other people choose not to get vaxxed? Do you also hate people that smoke, because they are doing something that might affect theyre health? What about obese people. Do you hate them because theyre eating habits will be theyre early demise

YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

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By your type, that is huddled in the basement, double masked, vaxxed, and quivering in fear from all the media hype.
The average working man, has zero use for all these mandates.
If he wants to wear a mask, he can.
If he want a vax, he can get one.
How about you concern yourself with where Covid came from???
Worry about something useful...

What you call fear I simply call respect for those around me and humanity as a whole. Taking those steps have been proven over and over to reduce transmission which reduces the death toll. I worked through the entire pandemic other than a couple periods when I had to quarantine due to direct exposure.

Now as far as where it came from yes it is important. But it really doesn't effect how we deal with the situation at all. Yes if it was released from a lab either accidentally or purposely those responsible should be held accountable. But again it changes nothing about our current situation.


We have told you over and over we really don't care what the media says. Pay attention to the science.

 

[clancey]

bholler I think you should stop lecturing people and let them decide on these important things on their own with their own knowledge with having the freedom "to decide for themselves and their family"..No one in America should be forced to put a foreign substance in their body with "threats" of a loss lively hood if they do not concur especially with all the "Lying" agendas that we all have been through so please do not put a "guilt trip" on anybody who decides differently than you. Its very unbecoming I think...clancey

 

[bholler]

bholler I think you should stop lecturing people and let them decide on these important things on their own with their own knowledge with having the freedom "to decide for themselves and their family"..No one in America should be forced to put a foreign substance in their body with "threats" of a loss lively hood if they do not concur especially with all the "Lying" agendas that we all have been through so please do not put a "guilt trip" on anybody who decides differently than you. Its very unbecoming I think...clancey

Why is it your side is free to lecture tell us we are cowards hiding in our basement etc. But I am not allowed to express my views or point out what the science says?

 

[stoveliker]

No one is forced. You can refuse. Just like you can refuse to wear glasses - but then are not allowed to drive.

Choices, freedom, and consequences.
Employers can mandate it as a condition of employment. The only thing that can't happen is the federal government mandating all to get vaccinated (SCOTUS).

 

[clancey]

Because your wrong in my opinion and lets all get on with life .The politics of all of this--Is a mess----and has divided people all across this nation---even in sickness---some countries even have camps to lock up people who refuse to take this vaccine. How about natural immunity do you ever discuss that with your blah blah blah....clancey

 

[sprawlnstall]

Israeli study shows natural immunity delivers 13 times more protection than COVID vaccines - ClarkCountyToday.com

CDC study on natural immunity has different conclusion than Israeli study.

www.clarkcountytoday.com

Here is an article discussing the Israel study I mentioned earlier. I’m not saying I believe this or support it. I’m simply saying we don’t know the science. The Supreme Court has already said vaccines mandates on individuals is unconstitutional.

 

[bholler]

Because your wrong in my opinion and lets all get on with life .The politics of all of this--Is a mess----and has divided people all across this nation---even in sickness---some countries even have camps to lock up people who refuse to take this vaccine. How about natural immunity do you ever discuss that with your blah blah blah....clancey

So because you think I am wrong you feel I am not entitled to express my veiws?

And yes I have discussed natural immunity here atleast a few times. What would you like to discuss about it?

 

[bholler]

Israeli study shows natural immunity delivers 13 times more protection than COVID vaccines - ClarkCountyToday.com

CDC study on natural immunity has different conclusion than Israeli study.

www.clarkcountytoday.com

Here is an article discussing the Israel study I mentioned earlier. I’m not saying I believe this or support it. I’m simply saying we don’t know the science. The Supreme Court has already said vaccines mandates on individuals is unconstitutional.

Did you go to the link and read the actual study?

 

[sprawlnstall]

Yes I did.

 

[bholler]

Yes I did.

Did it in any way indicate that getting the virus in order to become immune was the best approach?

And what variant was the study done with?

From what I saw it said natural immunity was a little better than the vaccine but the best immunity comes from both natural immunity and the vaccine. So no matter what you are better off with the vaccine. Either you get the vaccine and never get covid and have decent immunity. Or you get the vaccine then get covid and because you had the vaccine you have far less chance of serious symptoms then you have the best immunity.

The other option is not get the vaccine. If you get covid your chances of severe symptoms are far greater and you end up with less effective immunity than you would have if you had gotten the vaccine

 

[fire_man]

Or you get the vaccine then get covid and because you had the vaccine you have far less chance of serious symptoms then you have the best immunity.

^This seems like the best scenario^

 

[sprawlnstall]

Did it in any way indicate that getting the virus in order to become immune was the best approach?

And what variant was the study done with?

From what I saw it said natural immunity was a little better than the vaccine but the best immunity comes from both natural immunity and the vaccine. So no matter what you are better off with the vaccine. Either you get the vaccine and never get covid and have decent immunity. Or you get the vaccine then get covid and because you had the vaccine you have far less chance of serious symptoms then you have the best immunity.

The other option is not get the vaccine. If you get covid your chances of severe symptoms are far greater and you end up with less effective immunity than you would have if you had gotten the vaccine

I guess we interpret it differently , which explains why we have different feelings about forced vaccinations. I don’t plan to respond further at this time. The less a government tries to control our lives the happier and more prosperous we will be.

 

[bholler]

I guess we interpret it differently , which explains why we have different feelings about forced vaccinations. I don’t plan to respond further at this time. The less a government tries to control our lives the happier and more prosperous we will be.

Again I do not support vaccine mandates from the govt at all as I have said many times before.

 

[old greybeard]

I advise everyone to read RFK JR’s book. I kept a open mind while reading it, and am angry after finishing. Vey good chance that we have been misled by the greed of those we have trusted. The lack of testing of cheap, patent expired viral drugs is disconcerting, and not addressed or allowed to be debated by our health authorities or social media.
There is little science behind the path we’ve taken.

 

[sprawlnstall]

Tucker Carlson did a piece on covid. It can be seen here. Just remember if you don’t like what he says attack his viewpoints and not him as a person.



https://www.foxnews.com/media/tucker-carlson-proof-biden-lackeys-media-lying-about-covid