Caddy or Max Caddy temporary installation

[brenndatomu]

I have to add weight to mine. I have 36' vertical to the top of my chimney. Daryl (Kuuma) told me about a guy in Chicago who had a 45' chimney who actually added TWO BD's in order to get his draft within spec!

I guess I am not getting it. All the baros I have messed with would lay flat out wide open when the sliding weight is slide clear out, your not gonna lower the draft any more than a wide open flapper. Where are you adding the weight exactly?
I can Imagine a 45' chimney would need 2 baros! Wow, can you say Hoover?! Keep the cats n dogs away when the loading door is open!
I would think 2 baros on a chimney serving anything other than a Kuuma would result in a real cold chimney and a ton of creosote!

 

[DoubleB]

I guess I am not getting it.

Me neither. As I understand, chimney height, flue temp, wind, etc. determines draft without a baro. Baro setting determines when the flap opens to prevent too much draft. Wouldn't adding weight only delay when the flap opens, thus causing excessive draft?

If so, then you would want to allow more air up the chimney (2 baro dampers), not less (with more weight).

And I agree with Brenndatomu, wouldn't it be better to partially limit excessive draft with a manual damper, and keep chimney temps up, than to draw 2 baro damper's worth of cold air in from outside and up your (now cold) chimney?

I admit I haven't tried that yet, but I have a 37' chimney and my single baro seems to keep 0.06 in just fine by itself. Extra weight would only increase that draft further.

 

[JRHAWK9]

Mine won't lay wide open with it slide all the way over. There are times when I will see 0.06" on my gauge with it slide all the way out and other times it won't be able to get down to 0.06" w/o extra weight. My BD is connected real close to my collar at the back of the furnace (it has a 45° elbow connecting to the collar and then the BD tee is connected to that) and I have questioned whether this affects the BD and/or manometer reading. My plan is to slide the BD tee up some to see if that changes anything. The tee my BD is set in is also sitting at a 45° angle but it the BD flap itself of parallel to the floor. The 45° angle may or may not make a difference, seeing the BD states to hang the weight on one side or another depending if you are vertical or horizontal. I'm neither. My personal feeling is the gauge is correct based upon how the furnace reacts, but this is something I will be looking into more just out of my own curiosity.

 

[DoubleB]

Wait a minute, now I think I've seen some baros before, maybe where the pivot is above center, in which extra weight makes it easier for draft to open the flap. If so, my memory is foggy on them because mine has the pivot below center, in which extra weight makes it harder for draft to open the flap.

So, I wonder if we are thinking about different baro designs, one in which the weight reduces draft; the other in which the weight increases draft. Same function accomplished, same adjustment, just in different directions.

That might explain my confusion.

 

[brenndatomu]

Mine won't lay wide open with it slide all the way over.

Hmmm, that seems weird to me. I have used a Fields RC baro just like the one the OP just posted in his last pics and it would lay open and drop draft down to -.02" WC for me. As long as your baro is plumb and level (level side to side and front back also) then the position of the tee shouldn't matter much. I played with the weight on mine a bit, it was a vertical pipe, which side the weight was on seemed to make no difference. Here is a diagram from my Yukon manual that shows where to put the baro. This diagram is taken directly from the Fields website although I don't see it there anymore...it used to be there.

 

[brenndatomu]

Wait a minute, now I think I've seen some baros before, maybe where the pivot is above center, in which extra weight makes it easier for draft to open the flap. If so, my memory is foggy on them because mine has the pivot below center, in which extra weight makes it harder for draft to open the flap.

So, I wonder if we are thinking about different baro designs, one in which the weight reduces draft; the other in which the weight increases draft. Same function accomplished, same adjustment, just in different directions.

That might explain my confusion.

Yeah, some have the weight on the bottom, some on top, it does make a difference. I was refering to a Fileds like the OP posted a pic of because that is what I'm familiar with and what he has. I guess I needed to specify that when talking about JRs

 

[Wisneaky]

Do you guys realize that the recommended draft is an average reading? I bet when that front damper shuts and those secondary stop that draft is below the recommended spec. At no time should draft fall below minimum spec. It will cause secondaries to stop and creosote to build up in the chimney. Also it can cause the baro to back puff letting smoke and carbon monoxide into the house.

 

[JRHAWK9]

Yeah, some have the weight on the bottom, some on top, it does make a difference. I was refering to a Fileds like the OP posted a pic of because that is what I'm familiar with and what he has. I guess I needed to specify that when talking about JRs

I do have Field Control's Type RC. I attached a video of it with the washer installed and set at the '6' position, which should relate to a 0.06" draft w/o the washer. If I remove the washer and leave it where it is my draft will climb to ~0.08". I contacted Field Control and they told me those settings are to get you in the ball park and if you have a manometer you can tweak them as you need to. I leave the washer installed because I like to have some wiggle room for when I need to adjust it in cold weather. Right now I believe I could remove the washer and slide it all the way out and I would be real close to 0.06" on the gauge. You can see how close my BD and manometer sample points (that copper tube you can barely see due to poor lighting stuck into the 45° elbow) are to the flue collar. I don't know if these close proximity's are messing with the BD and/or manometer readings, but I plan on moving the BD/Tee further downstream just for a sanity check to verify what my draft truly is. I do believe what I'm currently seeing for a draft is correct though.

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[brenndatomu]

Do you guys realize that the recommended draft is an average reading?

Well, I'm no baro expert but I did have a lengthy discussion with Yukon about this very subject. They said, and supposedly a lot of this comes directly from Fields, the spec that is called for in the furnace manual is the max reading, ever. In my case, they call for -.03" WC and they want that set after the chimney is hot, they actually recommend to run the oil burner for 10-15 just to make it easier since the multifuel Yukons have that option.
But in the case of the Max and the Tundra, where there is a range given, I'm not sure if that is an acceptable range of the max reading or the range of the high and the low readings. I would suspect the prior because you can't really control the low side of the draft once the fire burns down, it will go to zero at some point no matter what the damper is doing.
With that said, I would also say that if the draft falls too far below their recommended range during the "low" burn then that won't work either, but that is a chimney problem, (flue too big, not insulated, etc) not a baro setting problem.

 

[JRHAWK9]

Do you guys realize that the recommended draft is an average reading? I bet when that front damper shuts and those secondary stop that draft is below the recommended spec. At no time should draft fall below minimum spec. It will cause secondaries to stop and creosote to build up in the chimney. Also it can cause the baro to back puff letting smoke and carbon monoxide into the house.

My draft pretty much remains constant over the entire burn cycle until near the end when there are just coals left, then it drops a bit. Although that may have a lot to do with the computer keeping the burn nice and even based upon the setting I choose.

 

[JRHAWK9]

Wait a minute, now I think I've seen some baros before, maybe where the pivot is above center, in which extra weight makes it easier for draft to open the flap. If so, my memory is foggy on them because mine has the pivot below center, in which extra weight makes it harder for draft to open the flap.

So, I wonder if we are thinking about different baro designs, one in which the weight reduces draft; the other in which the weight increases draft. Same function accomplished, same adjustment, just in different directions.

That might explain my confusion.

Yep, that's where the confusion is

 

[David_QC]

There is two things with my baro... the swing panel kind of stick a bit to the wall when it come to more than 45 degree, not that much, but maybe it's why I need more weight... I will check if I can cut a little bit of this panel to help it... and the other thing is that my chimney is not 6 inch all the way up, it is connected to a 8 inch chimney, i have a 8 to 6 reducer before it enter the chimney.

Tonight i'm burning my wet wood with a eco log that is made of pressed waxed carboard... Wow ! now it is working as it is supposed to ! I got my 165 degree easy and secondary all over the top !
I played with my baro and I really see the difference between 0.1 and 0.06 at the flame "speed" of secondary fire.

I'm getting happier everyday with my new furnace :- )

 

[brenndatomu]

I do have Field Control's Type RC. I attached a video of it with the washer installed and set at the '6' position, which should relate to a 0.06" draft w/o the washer. If I remove the washer and leave it where it is my draft will climb to ~0.08"

So are you saying that without the washer, and the weight slid clear out, (away from the flapper) which that spot is is marked "2" IIRC, that you will still be way over -.02 on your actual draft reading?

I leave the washer installed because I like to have some wiggle room for when I need to adjust it in cold weather

You have to readjust for cold weather? Mine is set it and forget it no matter the weather unless the pivot gets hung up or I get creosote buildup on the back of the flapper.

but I plan on moving the BD/Tee further downstream

Good idea, you want the baro as close to chimney as possible. Also, the manual damper being after the baro could be bad. Close the manual damper too fast...smoke out the baro. Or if there was ever a "backpuff" with the manual damper restricted, smoke out the baro...
I'd just swap their positions, the baro and the key damper that is

 

[brenndatomu]

the swing panel kind of stick a bit to the wall when it come to more than 45 degree

sticks to the wall of what?

my chimney is not 6 inch all the way up, it is connected to a 8 inch chimney, i have a 8 to 6 reducer before it enter the chimney.

6 to 8 is probably gonna cause some headaches. Doesn't the Max have a 7 or 8" stovepipe connector?

Glad to hear things are starting to come together for you. Hang around here for a while, we'll get you and yours sweating bullets from that Max workin so well!

 

[JRHAWK9]

So are you saying that without the washer, and the weight slid clear out, (away from the flapper) which that spot is is marked "2" IIRC, that you will still be way over -.02 on your actual draft reading?

yeah, if I did that I would read ~0.06" on my manometer.

You have to readjust for cold weather? Mine is set it and forget it no matter the weather unless the pivot gets hung up or I get creosote buildup on the back of the flapper.

It seems like it at times, however with not knowing exactly what is right (BD setting vs manometer reading) I catch myself playing with it probably more than I should be...lol I was running it at 0.07-0.08+ at times (what the manometer would read set at 6 on the BD) but then that would trip the over temp alarm on the furnace soon after a fresh load. Since I dropped it back down to 0.06" on my manometer (using the washer on the BD) I have yet to trip the over temp alarm. This is what leads me to believe my manometer is correct.

 

[David_QC]

sticks to the wall of what?

Nevermind, I went to solve that hinge problem, was easier than explaning that in english for me :- P
So it doesn't changed anything... when I hold the barometric control all way open until it lock itself (somewhere arround 70 degree, 90 degree would be full open) I read 0.04 on the dwyer.

 

[David_QC]

6 to 8 is probably gonna cause some headaches. Doesn't the Max have a 7 or 8" stovepipe connector?

Max caddy is 6 inch... I will buy a 6 inch SS insulated liner when I remove the oil furnace and complete the work

 

[laynes69]

I successfully eliminated our barometric damper on our caddy. Where the chain mounts from the servo to the damper, it can be adjusted. I adjusted our damper so it opened a fraction as before, and covered the secondary ports under the door by 2/3rd. Doing this mimics a shorter chimney, keeps things hot down the line and eliminates the damper. Our flue temps before the baro remain the same as before and our burn times haven't changed. I've seen .22 on the chimney and the fire was perfect. We have a 32' chimney and I couldn't be any happier.

 

[brenndatomu]

yeah, if I did that I would read ~0.06" on my manometer.

Wow

 

[brenndatomu]

Nevermind, I went to solve that hinge problem

when I hold the barometric control all way open until it lock itself (somewhere arround 70 degree, 90 degree would be full open)

Are you talking about the little metal stop tab on the side of the flapper hanging things up? I have had to tweak things a bit there in the past to get it to not stick and still be able to fully open and close smoothly.

I will buy a 6 inch SS insulated liner when I remove the oil furnace and complete the work

Perfect. You get that liner, set the draft right, and get some good dry wood, you'll be a happy camper for sure!

 

[JRHAWK9]

Wow

yeah, now you see where the confusion is as to what my draft really is.

I just went down and removed the washer and set it all the way out..........manometer read 0.07".

 

[brenndatomu]

I successfully eliminated our barometric damper on our caddy. Where the chain mounts from the servo to the damper, it can be adjusted. I adjusted our damper so it opened a fraction as before, and covered the secondary ports under the door by 2/3rd. Doing this mimics a shorter chimney, keeps things hot down the line and eliminates the damper. Our flue temps before the baro remain the same as before and our burn times haven't changed. I've seen .22 on the chimney and the fire was perfect.

Nice!

I've seen .22 on the chimney and the fire was perfect.

-.22 breathing through a straw is the same as -.06 breathing through a garden hose huh?!