Ashford 30 Smoke Smell, again

[lsucet]

Regardless if I have issues or not, have the same product or not those welds are unacceptable. You don't need to own a product or not to have a point of view and express it. I also had a burr of weld on top of flue collar. I did filed off to the adapter sit properly. Was not a biggie. But why not say something.

 

[lsucet]

You are saying something and with all respect you don't own one anymore. You see, you feel you have a saying either way.

 

[begreen]

There's no point in speculating the cause. It could be machine programmed welds can't hit the corner edges and a manual weld is required there. I certainly don't know. The weld area on some of these stoves is ugly and could be related to the smoke smell issue plaguing several owner. It would be helpful for owners having this issue to finger trowel some furnace cement into the suspect area and see if this makes an immediate improvement. If so, that's good data for Blaze King and a quick temporary fix. I'm sure no one wants this problem solved more than BKVP. Be patient and provide good test input.

 

[Gotrek]

I adjusted my door and that fixed me just wanted to report. But those welds might very well be the others issue.

Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk

 

[Woody Stover]

BK welds the entire side plate perimeter, and the front and rear plates top (external) and bottom (internal). This leave the back side of the front and rear plates un-welded for about 1"....Sure its only the fit up gap but clearly from the creosote in all 4 top corners of my stove shows this. The green line is where I welded to fix my smoke smell issue..ran her with ZERO smell , then, the next morning, I ran a full load on high for 3-4 hrs..... zero smell. I then climbed up on the roof, and removed the 4' of extra class A I put on (looks so stupid sticking out of my roof 8') and ran the stove on high and low.... Zero smell.
I'm back to only ~15.5' total chimney, I put the screens back on my chimney cap, I've ran it a week high and low..... with absolutely zero odor..... check these corners for any creosote.

Well, maybe your "Ignerence" level is not as high as you would have us believe.

If the small weld areas are producing the smell. What about the bypass rod pass through? I have not looked closely at that but its a thought.

Yeah, there are other areas that are not sealed, but maybe it depends on where these are in the box, weather smoke can escape there or not.

There's no point in speculating the cause...It would be helpful for owners having this issue to finger trowel some furnace cement into the suspect area and see if this makes an immediate improvement

Hey, we on the forums here specialize in speculation. But yeah, Highbeam earlier mentioned furnace cement as a quick way to test. May not seal well or last too long, but maybe would be good enough for a test..
If the welds were indeed the cause, you'da thought the BK techs would have tracked it down by now. Don't they have fancy smoke-sniffer equipment and what-not?

 

[green pacific]

Some of you may remember I had trouble with my old Ashford and spent quite a bit of time and money getting a better draft, changing bolts under the gasket, trying different gaskets, etc. to try to get rid of the smell. Well, I now have a new Ashford in my new home and have the same issue, this time, draft is NOT the issue.

I think I have it at least narrowed down to the hinge on the door. I have read that other BK owners also complain of the smell coming from the left front. With the top off, I can really isolate exactly where it’s emitting from laterally and it’s different than with the top on, obviously. As it rises up, it gets pulled in whatever direction and can lead us to believe its coming from elsewhere. With the top off, it’s right over the hinge and nowhere else. As the fire burns back and away from that area, the smell goes away.

Another interesting new observation on this brand new stove is that after my first few warm up fires, I was giving the stove a once over and noticed the door, when latched, could be pressed upon and there was give indicating that the latch was not that tight. So, l tightened it very slightly which brought the latch to a more secure feel. No play when pressing on the door. Would you guess that the smell got worse!? My theory is that since the latch pulled the door more tightly closed on the latch side, it exasperates the issue with the hinge, bowing it further out from the knife edge causing the release of the smell.

I just wanted to let everyone know my experience. I obviously love the stove enough to rebuy it, but God I hate this smell. My new neighbor actually loves the stove and is in the market but he can smell it so is turned off. If anyone has a fix that isn’t the same old draft argument, Id be very grateful. My new setup is as follows: 25’ straight up, double wall, OAK, no fan kit, yet. I burn everything from cedar to white oak, MC 15-18% with most everything, sometimes lower. I burn every load for at least 10mins before I engage the cat, sometimes longer if my chimney isn’t getting too hot. House is 2200sf. Stay warm everyone!

Hello Calentarse, I have a BK Ashford 30 and had this problem just once -- I assume that as you don't like the smell, this is the acrid smell from the cat and not the sweeter woodsmoke smell from the stove itself? -- Luckily mine self-corrected and as it did, I had the sense that something fell back into place inside; that perhaps a big load had pushed something up [the thermometer?] that normally was down, and when "down" effectively sealed the stove. My leak wasn't as specific, or wasn't around long enough for me to get a bead on where it was coming from. That day, I was sitting to the right of the stove (and had to stay where I was for two hours ...) and my door is hinged on the right. I really hope you find a solution. I was wondering what on earth I would do if my situation didn't resolve! I love and adore my BK Ash-30 stove like a family pet but there are limits (for stoves, anyway) to loyalty and that was one terrible smell! Give me clean, fresh woodsmoke any day (no, don't, but ....)

 

[BKVP]

All,

I will be contacting each of the 8 cases we know of in the next few days. I have been in the wilds of Wyoming and just got into decent service. I will address through pm's to all 8 owners. Ignerence, I will also be in contact with you.

Chris

 

[Mark8]

 

[Woody Stover]

[ATTACH

Are they after Monty Burns in that one?

 

[jetsam]

The odd part is that 3 different people have completely fixed their issue 3 different ways (door gasket, flue damper, welding).

 

[Mark8]

Are they after Monty Burns in that one?

Yeah I think they were after Burns in that one, but they now set their sites on BKVP, they are a unruly mob.
The smoke smell has gotten to them

 

[Woody Stover]

they are a unruly mob.

Although they may not have pitchforks, quite a few process their own wood and have many other implements of destruction close at hand.

 

[Gotrek]

Mines good so take me off the list if I'm on it

Also measured my draft yesterday(with crappy digital manomoeter) I'm at 0.09"h20 while burning on high(Not sure the +/- error ratio on this meter).

Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk

 

[BKVP]

Mines good so take me off the list if I'm on it

Also measured my draft yesterday(with crappy digital manomoeter) I'm at 0.09"h20 while burning on high(Not sure the +/- error ratio on this meter).

Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk

Thank you. There are a couple others that were remedied already, so I will contact those few remaining shortly.

 

[Mark8]

@BKVP As a person in the market for a new insert or freestanding stove I had BK at the top of my list and really liked the looks of the Ashford 30, I have been following this thread as many others to find out the smoke smell problem. I really am kind of turned off by how this matter is being handled privately and keeping us in the dark.

I hope you will be sharing your findings with us so we can all be informed buyers.

 

[Woody Stover]

I hope you will be sharing your findings with us so we can all be informed buyers.

I was just wondering to myself how many of those that had a problem would report back and relate "the rest of the story..."

 

[jetsam]

It sounds like different people had different issues to me. Why would a new door gasket fix a missed weld?

A universal fix/announcement may not be forthcoming because not everyone has the same problem.

I agree that an announcement of a newly discovered issue (like 'we found out that one production run had welding issues') would be of value, but discussing individuals' one-off problems should probably be left to the discretion of those individuals.


If history is any indicator, BKVP will take care of everyone who reports the issue. If you doubt it, search for threads about people who are pissed off that BK wouldn't help them (excluding people doing stuff that the manual clearly prohibits, such as burning a King on a 6" flue). They're rare birds because nobody wrote them, because their stove issues all got taken care of one way or the other.

 

[MissMac]

I emailed the pic that I posted on this thread to the tech at Blaze King in Canada - he tells me that there is a complete weld on the inside of the firebox as well, and that a short weld on the outside of the box is done to back-up the corner. So this is what I can add to the convo at this point.

 

[BKVP]

Back on earth. Jetsam, you are correct. Thus far, a few things have helped. Adding chimney, adding insulation to liners, door/gasket adjustments etc.

None of the 8 units were part of the same run. And please, please keep in mind we have made thousands of these units. There is certainly no excuse for any imperfection in our products, but it can happen.

What we do however is take care of the customer. I'll be working tomorrow to help sort out a few more and shortly we should have these very few (one is too much) issues resolved. Can it transpire again, yes. Most issues were addressed early on with a few improvements to the venting. The last few, who have tried venting additions, will continue to be supported to satisfaction.

Thank you,
Chris

 

[Sailrmike]

Well, I have been reluctant to post my fix as I'm sure it won't impress a few people... mine was pretty cut and dry once I found the issue.

So, my first sirocco 30.1 had a blatant missed weld that immediately caused leaking creosote and was replaced by BK. Problem solved right? nope. While the odor was less apparent on the second stove it was still present to some degree. I assumed this must be wood burning and I felt bad already so "live with it" or don't burn is what I thought.

I replaced my door gasket with the high density white one in a attempt to fix it. It helped, but on high, hot burns (like when cleaning the window) or when throttling up the stove there was a very clear smoke odor. And I mean clear, not "is it the paint curing" or "maybe there was some smoke spillage the last re-load" type smell. Enough my neighbor would try and find my issue every time he came over...

I hadn't burned the stove since the cold spell in the end of Dec start of Jan as the odor was getting to me a little. We went to whitefish Montana and stayed in a log cabin two weeks ago with a wood stove, I cringed when others wanted to light it.... As I lighted it I noticed the split doors, top door, side door etc.... "ughhhhh this thing is going to smoke up in here terribly" I figured.... Not a hint of smoke. Not once, ever. I realized I wasn't being too picky and I do indeed have a issue at home with my stove.

So when I got home the investigation started, these things aren't Rocket appliances' (Ricky'ism [emoji14] ). Here's what I ened up finding after combing it over with a flashlight and fine tooth comb.

View attachment 222045 View attachment 222046


The corners rely on 100% weld penetration to seal the stove. the front and rear plates extend past the side plates about 1" on each side. BK welds the entire side plate perimeter, and the front and rear plates top (external) and bottom (internal). This leave the back side of the front and rear plates un-welded for about 1".

View attachment 222047

Not a big deal right? its external right? You have left the thickness of the front and rear plate material non-welded. Sure its only the fit up gap but clearly from the creosote in all 4 top corners of my stove shows this. The green line is where I welded to fix my smoke smell issue in all 4 top corners and bottom corners.

View attachment 222050 View attachment 222049

The red arrows represent the 4 corners that had visible creosote leaking. The green arrows are corners that have the same weld issue but showed no leakage.

I ended up dragging in my welder and buzzed a 1" bead in the 8 corners after covering all the floors, other surfaces, removing paint ect.

after painting it back up and no other changes I ran her with ZERO smell , then, the next morning, I ran a full load on high for 3-4 hrs..... zero smell. I then climbed up on the roof, and removed the 4' of extra class A I put on (looks so stupid sticking out of my roof 8') and ran the stove on high and low.... Zero smell.

I'm back to only ~15.5' total chimney, I put the screens back on my chimney cap, I've ran it a week high and low..... with absolutely zero odor. And I mean zero. None, zip zero.

Sure I welded on it, sure I probably fawked any warranty but I could care less. It leaked before and now it doesn't.

End of story.... check these corners for any creosote.

@BKVP does doing welding work on a stove void it's warranty? I'm also curious about the UL listing in situations where a stove has to be repaired with welds or other invasive means

 

[BKVP]

Certainly we prefer that customers need not have to work on their investments they made with our company. Our warranty is spelled out and we stand by repair or replace. We also want all purchasers to be satisfied!

Today, I have reached out to the 7 remaining cases of smoke smell with AF30's and look forward to their satisfaction very soon.

Have a great weekend all, I'm leaving on another road trip!

BKVP

 

[Mark8]

Some of you may remember I had trouble with my old Ashford and spent quite a bit of time and money getting a better draft, changing bolts under the gasket, trying different gaskets, etc. to try to get rid of the smell. Well, I now have a new Ashford in my new home and have the same issue, this time, draft is NOT the issue.

I think I have it at least narrowed down to the hinge on the door. I have read that other BK owners also complain of the smell coming from the left front. With the top off, I can really isolate exactly where it’s emitting from laterally and it’s different than with the top on, obviously. As it rises up, it gets pulled in whatever direction and can lead us to believe its coming from elsewhere. With the top off, it’s right over the hinge and nowhere else. As the fire burns back and away from that area, the smell goes away.

Another interesting new observation on this brand new stove is that after my first few warm up fires, I was giving the stove a once over and noticed the door, when latched, could be pressed upon and there was give indicating that the latch was not that tight. So, l tightened it very slightly which brought the latch to a more secure feel. No play when pressing on the door. Would you guess that the smell got worse!? My theory is that since the latch pulled the door more tightly closed on the latch side, it exasperates the issue with the hinge, bowing it further out from the knife edge causing the release of the smell.

I just wanted to let everyone know my experience. I obviously love the stove enough to rebuy it, but God I hate this smell. My new neighbor actually loves the stove and is in the market but he can smell it so is turned off. If anyone has a fix that isn’t the same old draft argument, Id be very grateful. My new setup is as follows: 25’ straight up, double wall, OAK, no fan kit, yet. I burn everything from cedar to white oak, MC 15-18% with most everything, sometimes lower. I burn every load for at least 10mins before I engage the cat, sometimes longer if my chimney isn’t getting too hot. House is 2200sf. Stay warm everyone!

I hope you are going to let us all know if BK has contacted you and how they resolved your issue, we all need to hear both sides of this story. Especially the stove owners version.

 

[BKVP]

There are no sides here. Only the customers satisfaction counts. We have been in contact all along trying to resolve these isolated issues. Unfortunately it does not appear there is a common thread, no pun intended. But we will get them handled.

 

[Calentarse]

I hope you are going to let us all know if BK has contacted you and how they resolved your issue, we all need to hear both sides of this story. Especially the stove owners version.

BKVP reached out today and is coordinating with my dealer to come install a thicker gasket. I’m really hoping this will solve my issue and will continue to work with BKVP to find a solution if it does not. I will try to keep everyone updated.

I stand corrected about my wood moisture. I used my moisture meter on my 5 year old red oak the other night and it was consistently 15.2-15.4%. Dry enough to eliminate this as a possible cause, right?

 

[tarzan]

There are no sides here. Only the customers satisfaction counts. We have been in contact all along trying to resolve these isolated issues. Unfortunately it does not appear there is a common thread, no pun intended. But we will get them handled.

Buttwhackers?